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Kolb to be burned at end of flying season

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bczygan(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:13 pm Post subject: Kolb to be burned at end of flying season

Listers,

    I have met a gentleman who has a Kolb, I believe it is a Firestar. He is a longtime UL pilot who is disgusted with SP, tired of flying alone as the only UL pilot in his area, and has another hobby to replace flying. He is wary of other peoples intentions and afraid of the liability of selling the aircraft. He has decided that burning the aircraft at the end of this flying season is the best course of action. Now, obviously I can not, and will not reveal his name to protect his anonymity, but I need well reasoned and heartfelt entreaties to help him find a better way out of his difficulties. I am not a Kolb owner but see this as a needless waste. Any suggestions?

   

  Bill Czygan 



  	 		See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. [url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=40762/*http://www.yahoo.com/preview] Check it out.[/url]

APilot(at)webtv.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:55 pm Post subject: Kolb to be burned at end of flying season

Any lawyer can sue anybody for anything.  I have sold quite a few

ultralights, but never one that was flying.  If it was flying, I tore it

down to kit form and then had any buyer sign an agreement to the effect

that the kit would be completed by the buyer and the buyer would assure

the airworthiness of the aircraft before flight.  Nothing is fool proof,

but this the precaution that I have used and, of course, the agreement

must be signed by a witnness with contact information as a part of the

agreement.  It is a shame to burn a airplane, but it looks like I am

about to burn my Mitchell B-10 because I can find nobody who wants to

complete it. My Kolb is flying so nice now that finishing that project

would waste good flying time.

dhkey(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:53 am Post subject: Kolb to be burned at end of flying season

Tell him to get out of the plane before he starts the fire.

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: Bill Czygan <bczygan(at)yahoo.com>

Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Kolb to be burned at end of flying season

Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 21:11:08 -0700 (PDT)

Listers,

     I have met a gentleman who has a Kolb, I believe it is a Firestar. He 

is a longtime UL pilot who is disgusted with SP, tired of flying alone as 

the only UL pilot in his area, and has another hobby to replace flying. He 

is wary of other peoples intentions and afraid of the liability of selling 

the aircraft. He has decided that burning the aircraft at the end of this 

flying season is the best course of action. Now, obviously I can not, and 

will not reveal his name to protect his anonymity, but I need well reasoned 

and heartfelt entreaties to help him find a better way out of his 

difficulties. I am not a Kolb owner but see this as a needless waste. Any 

suggestions?

   Bill Czygan

---------------------------------

See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com.  Check it out.

biglar

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 5:01 am Post subject: Kolb to be burned at end of flying season

Naw, tell the idiot to stay in it. (joke)  It won't burn anyway, if it's 

covered with Stits.                    Lar.                    Do not 

Archive.

+

---

_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose"

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 5:27 am Post subject: Kolb to be burned at end of flying season

Bill,



Is the guy you refer to the builder? Based on your statements, I assume 

it is not n-numbered. If he is not the builder, what is he worried 

about?



If I were paranoid like him, I would probably take off some major 

component (engine, wings, etc.) and sell it separately from the rest of 

it. It is not a flying airplane then.  Or he could donate it as a 

collection of parts to an EAA chapter that wants/needs a project.  If 

that is not good enough, then rip some holes in the wing fabric so it 

must be recovered by its new owner.



Please don't let him destroy the airplane.



Thom in Buffalo

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

N111KX (Kip)

Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 96
Location: Atlanta, GA

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:41 am Post subject: Re: Kolb to be burned at end of flying season

There are a bunch of museums that would love to have it. Problem solved with dignity to boot...

Kip

_________________
Kip
Firestar II, N111KX
Waiex, N111YX
Quickie 1, N111QX
Atlanta

Snoopy Baxley

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 42

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:42 am Post subject: Kolb to be burned at end of flying season

--> Kolb list posted by : " Stephen Baxley " flycrazy8(at)aol.com (flycrazy8(at)aol.com)

  

 Heck guys !  Give us his address... tell him to fold the wings up and leave it beside the road and it will like magic disappear over night 

  

  

  

  

  

 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com>



Naw, tell the idiot to stay in it. (joke)  It won't burn anyway, if it's 

covered with Stits.                    Lar.                    Do not 

Archive.

+

---

Dave Pelletier

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 100
Location: Prescott, Arizona

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:29 am Post subject: Kolb to be burned at end of flying season

 

  	  Quote: 	
		     >He is wary of other peoples intentions and    afraid of the liability of selling the aircraft. He has decided that burning    the aircraft at >the end of this flying season is the best course of    action. 

    

   There is one guy in our club who also told    me he was going to burn his aircraft because he was afraid of the liability if    he sold it.  I couldn't believe he was actually serious.  Now here's    someone else who is saying the same thing.

    

   HUMBLE    OPINION:

    

   It seems to me that this is a whole lot    unrealistic.  Yes, there are a lot of lawyers out there waiting for a    chance to sue and a lot of people who look at any kind of accident as    potentially hitting the lottery.  But think about it.  If some    precautions are taken, then the chance of getting sued is pretty slim.     If you sell the "bird" with some kind of agreement that makes sense and    that the buyer and his/her heirs forever "hold harmless" and if it is sold as    an incomplete kit, then that causes problems for the "suer" or    whatever the hell they're called.  (Even ripping holes in the wing as    Thom says would probably help.)

    

   Consider these points:  First, there has to    be an accident and the person who has the accident has to want to sue (we've    all had "accidents" of some kind - did we sue?).  Second, in some way    (and I know the point is stretched) it has to be shown that it is the    builder's (or sellers) fault.  Third, the lawyer has to somehow overcome    the "hold harmless" agreements that were signed.  Fourth, the lawyer has    to overcome the "sold as a kit" thingy.  Fifth, if this was such a    concern, then how come you can go to Barnstormers and ultralighthomepage.com    and find hundreds of ultralights for sale?  I've never heard of any    builder being sued, has anyone???  And if this is so much of a liability,    then it would seem to me that Kolb, Quicksilver, etc., would be sued every    time one of their planes go down.  (Don't get any ideas Pat.) 

    

   Finally, it's wise to have a liability    "umbrella" policy for about $1 mil.  Doesn't cost much.  And    finally #2, if he's that worried about being sued, then what the hell is    he doing driving a car?  Seems to me he's much more at risk driving a car    than selling a collection of parts.  (No these arguments didn't work with    the guy in our club - but he hasn't burned his airplane yet.)

    

    ....And I'm not a lawyer, this is just my    humble opinion.

    

   AzDave

_________________
AzDave

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:06 am Post subject: Kolb to be burned at end of flying season

would seem to me that Kolb, Quicksilver, etc.,  would be sued every time one of their planes go down.  (Don't get any ideas  Pat.) >>

  

 Hi Dave,

 I was thinking of sueing the idiot who built the  barn in such a stupid place. It was obvious that a plane would run into  it!

  

 Cheers

  

 Pat

  

 Signing off for a week as I am off to College  summer school.

  

 do not archive

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:38 am Post subject: Kolb to be burned at end of flying season

You can't fix stupid!

 Larry, Oregon

 [quote]   ---

FlyColt45(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:53 am Post subject: Kolb to be burned at end of flying season

Bill & all,

 My 2 cents:

 I know of an instance where a gentleman got to the end of his  flying days and didn't want to sell his Kolb for fear of liability.  He  donated it to Homer Kolb.  It is in like new condition, never again flown -  and hanging in the Kolb Co hanger for all to see, along side other models of the  past.

  

 Jim Cote

  

 Do not archive

a58r(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:34 pm Post subject: Kolb to be burned at end of flying season

At my semi-advanced age, one tends to consider The Final Approach.  

Here's scenario: find a buddy who will donate about 6" off the ends  

of one of his deer head's horns. Epoxy them to yer flight helmet.  

Take a coupla good belts (no, not seat belts!) and launch out inta  

The Blue. Do all the crazy stuff you've always wanted to do, but were  

afraid. See how low you can fly inverted, do a coupla Down Wind  

Turns, etc. Now squirm around, take off gas cap, wait for a stream of  

fuel, then Light Off, You'll be the Viking God, going out in a blaze  

of Glory to Valhalla!



Probably make the evening papers.



regards,

Bob N.

http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/

do nor archive

dhkey(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:27 pm Post subject: Kolb to be burned at end of flying season

you could also "ghost ride" it, like when we'd jump off our bikes and see 

how far they would go without a driver.

Michael Sharp

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 118
Location: Oak Grove, MO (Kansas City)

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:24 pm Post subject: Kolb to be burned at end of flying season

   

Dave,  

   

I much prefer humble opinions than a lawyer’s opinion any day!!!  

   

Mike  

Do Not Archive  

         

  

From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave & Eve Pelletier

 Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 10:29 AM

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Kolb to be burned at end of flying season  

  

     

   

   	  Quote: 	
		      

 	  Quote: 	
		  He is wary of other peoples intentions and afraid of the liability of selling the aircraft. He has decided that burning the aircraft at >the end of this flying season is the best course of action.   

    
	


   

    

There is one guy in our club who also told me he was going to burn his aircraft because he was afraid of the liability if he sold it.  I couldn't believe he was actually serious.  Now here's someone else who is saying the same thing.  

    

   

    

[b]HUMBLE OPINION:[/b]  

    

   

    

It seems to me that this is a whole lot unrealistic.  Yes, there are a lot of lawyers out there waiting for a chance to sue and a lot of people who look at any kind of accident as potentially hitting the lottery.  But think about it.  If some precautions are taken, then the chance of getting sued is pretty slim.  If you sell the "bird" with some kind of agreement that makes sense and that the buyer and his/her heirs forever "hold harmless" and if it is sold as an incomplete kit, then that causes problems for the "suer" or whatever the hell they're called.  (Even ripping holes in the wing as Thom says would probably help.)  

    

   

    

Consider these points:  First, there has to be an accident and the person who has the accident has to want to sue (we've all had "accidents" of some kind - did we sue?).  Second, in some way (and I know the point is stretched) it has to be shown that it is the builder's (or sellers) fault.  Third, the lawyer has to somehow overcome the "hold harmless" agreements that were signed.  Fourth, the lawyer has to overcome the "sold as a kit" thingy.  Fifth, if this was such a concern, then how come you can go to Barnstormers and ultralighthomepage.com and find hundreds of ultralights for sale?  I've never heard of any builder being sued, has anyone???  And if this is so much of a liability, then it would seem to me that Kolb, Quicksilver, etc., would be sued every time one of their planes go down.  (Don't get any ideas Pat.)   

    

   

    

Finally, it's wise to have a liability "umbrella" policy for about $1 mil.  Doesn't cost much.  And finally #2, if he's that worried about being sued, then what the hell is he doing driving a car?  Seems to me he's much more at risk driving a car than selling a collection of parts.  (No these arguments didn't work with the guy in our club - but he hasn't burned his airplane yet.)  

    

   

    

 ....And I'm not a lawyer, this is just my humble opinion.  

    

   

    

AzDave

_________________
The air up there in the clouds is very pure and fine...And why shouldn't it be?-
--It is the same the angels breathe.
Mark Twain,
Roughing it' 1886

Mike

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:32 am Post subject: Kolb to be burned at end of flying season

you could also "ghost ride" it, like when we'd jump off our bikes and see

how far they would go without a driver.>>



Hi, that brings back old memories. A friend and I used to take his old flat 

tank Sunbeam motorbike, which was old even in those days and start the 

engine and set it off down the runway of a disused airfield. It would slowly 

turn and take off across the grass, wobbling and eventually fall over, 

usually on the runway. Crunch. Straighten things out and do it again!



When I think what that bike would be worth today.......



Pat



do not archive



--

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:39 pm Post subject: Kolb to be burned at end of flying season

It won't burn anyway, if it's

| covered with Stits.                    Lar.



Larry/Gang:



Disregard, if you were joking about Stits fabric not burning.



If you were serious, you might want to test out some Stits (Polyfiber) 

fabric that has been processed through finish paint, or bare polyester 

dacron.  It is very flamable.



Having had the opportunity to recover or dispose of parts and complete 

airplanes, over the years, I have also had a lot of experience burning 

polyester dacron in the finished mode.  For that matter, I helped burn 

the fabric we pulled from Larry Cottrell's FSII last May.  Burns very 

well.



Take care,



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

biglar

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:46 pm Post subject: Kolb to be burned at end of flying season

Hmmm........interesting, and good to know.  I was told by several people 

that it wouldn't support combustion by itself.  Calls for more caution, eh 

??                   Lar.



---

_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose"

HShack(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:27 pm Post subject: Kolb to be burned at end of flying season

In a message dated 7/30/2006 6:48:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, biglar(at)gogittum.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Hmmm........interesting, and good to know.  I was told by several people 

that it wouldn't support combustion by itself.  Calls for more caution, eh 

??                   Lar. 	


  

  

 When we rebuilt my FS II, we did the full Stits process & finished0with Aerothane.  When we tried to burn a sample, it would NOT self sustain.



  

 Howard Shackleford

FS II

SC

cstonex(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:55 pm Post subject: Kolb to be burned at end of flying season

I'm wondering why your going to burn the Kolb?? I must of missed0 something.

 [quote]   ---

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