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wreining(at)gmail.com
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 Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:04 pm Post subject: Aircraft Wiring for Smart People |
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I attended a workshop given by Greg Richter of Blue Mountain Avionics on Saturday at Oshkosh entitled “Aircraft Wiring for Smart People”. It was excellent. Each member of the audience was given a 39 page handout at the start of the forum, which served as the basis for the lecture. While you may not agree on all the recommendations it contains (such as using a 28V system), it sure does provide good information for planning and implementing your system. For those of you who missed this forum, here’s the link to the same handout, available as a PDF file on the Blue Mountain Avionics website. http://www.bluemountainavionics.com/pdf/aircraft_wiring_04december2004.pdf
By the way, be sure to also visit the AeroElectic website: http://www.aeroelectric.com, and purchase their excellent book on the same subject: “The AeroElectric Connection”.
Bill Reining
RV-10 40514
Tail Cone
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Tdawson(at)avidyne.com
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:17 pm Post subject: Aircraft Wiring for Smart People |
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Not to be blasphemous, but has anyone else found “The AeroElectric Connection” somewhat anti-climatic, compared to the way it is often talked about as a document right up there with the Bible, the Constitution, and the Declaration of Independence? It seems to have some areas in need of an update, and a lot of focus on plastic airplanes. Certainly there’s some good information in there, but you’d think the thing could walk on water . . .
TDT
40025
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Reining
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 5:04 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Aircraft Wiring for Smart People
I attended a workshop given by Greg Richter of Blue Mountain Avionics on Saturday at Oshkosh entitled “Aircraft Wiring for Smart People”. It was excellent. Each member of the audience was given a 39 page handout at the start of the forum, which served as the basis for the lecture. While you may not agree on all the recommendations it contains (such as using a 28V system), it sure does provide good information for planning and implementing your system. For those of you who missed this forum, here’s the link to the same handout, available as a PDF file on the Blue Mountain Avionics website. http://www.bluemountainavionics.com/pdf/aircraft_wiring_04december2004.pdf
By the way, be sure to also visit the AeroElectic website: http://www.aeroelectric.com, and purchase their excellent book on the same subject: “The AeroElectric Connection”.
Bill Reining
RV-10 40514
Tail Cone
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etekberg(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:30 pm Post subject: Aircraft Wiring for Smart People |
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I attended that also. That guy was funny. As an EE I didn't agree with everything he said, but nothing major. The handout was very good also, I wish more of the forums did the handout.
Eric
do not archive
On 7/31/06, Bill Reining <wreining(at)gmail.com (wreining(at)gmail.com)> wrote: | Quote: |
I attended a workshop given by Greg Richter of Blue Mountain Avionics on Saturday at Oshkosh entitled "Aircraft Wiring for Smart People". It was excellent. Each member of the audience was given a 39 page handout at the start of the forum, which served as the basis for the lecture. While you may not agree on all the recommendations it contains (such as using a 28V system), it sure does provide good information for planning and implementing your system. For those of you who missed this forum, here's the link to the same handout, available as a PDF file on the Blue Mountain Avionics website. http://www.bluemountainavionics.com/pdf/aircraft_wiring_04december2004.pdf
By the way, be sure to also visit the AeroElectic website: http://www.aeroelectric.com, and purchase their excellent book on the same subject: "The AeroElectric Connection".
Bill Reining
RV-10 40514
Tail Cone
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jdalton77(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:19 pm Post subject: Aircraft Wiring for Smart People |
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I had the same reaction. I'm glad to hear I0 wasn't totally crazy (maybe not though!)
It does have some good stuff - but nothing earth0 shattering.
[quote] ---
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rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
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| Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:36 am Post subject: Aircraft Wiring for Smart People |
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HOW DARE YOU! Oh wait, I agree with you. 0 I think Bob's book is worth every dime for guys like me that are strictly0 laymen. I personally don't see it as a bible like many others and I have0 criticized people over on that list for putting him on a pedestal. His0 list has a lot of good discussions as long as you can separate the wheat from0 the chaff but there is a whole lot of cheerleading. It does seem to0 be going to his head a bit as his discussions are turning more philosophical0 than actually useful. But I digress. The Aeroelectric Connection is0 really just a collection of very old and well proven design philosophies but0 nothing ground shattering.
0 As for Greg's book, I too attended his seminar at the 2005 Airventure and read0 his whitepaper. Good stuff also. It's funny how a little feud0 started between Greg and Bob a while back witch spawned Greg's paper. Is0 either approach wrong, not really. They just represent different design0 philosophies.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com0 [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim0 Dawson-Townsend
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 4:16 PM
To:0 rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Aircraft Wiring for0 Smart People
Not to be blasphemous,0 but has anyone else found “The AeroElectric Connection” somewhat anti-climatic,0 compared to the way it is often talked about as a document right up there with0 the Bible, the Constitution, and the Declaration of Independence? It seems0 to have some areas in need of an update, and a lot of focus on plastic0 airplanes. Certainly there’s some good information in there, but you’d0 think the thing could walk on water . . .
TDT
40025
From:0 owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com0 [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Reining
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 5:040 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Aircraft Wiring for0 Smart People
I attended a workshop given by Greg0 Richter of Blue Mountain Avionics on Saturday at Oshkosh entitled “Aircraft Wiring for Smart0 People”. It was excellent. Each member of the audience was given a0 39 page handout at the start of the forum, which served as the basis for the0 lecture. While you may not agree on all the recommendations it contains0 (such as using a 28V system), it sure does provide good information for planning0 and implementing your system. For those of you who missed this forum,0 here’s the link to the same handout, available as a PDF file on the Blue0 Mountain Avionics website. http://www.bluemountainavionics.com/pdf/aircraft_wiring_04december2004.pdf0
By the way, be sure to also visit0 the AeroElectic website: http://www.aeroelectric.com, and0 purchase their excellent book on the same subject: “The AeroElectric0 Connection”.
Bill0 Reining
RV-100 40514
Tail0 Cone
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jjessen
Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 285
Location: OR
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| Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:19 am Post subject: Aircraft Wiring for Smart People |
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Go here (http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/richter/richter.html) to see
Nuckolls take on the issues. I'm not a promoter of either, nor am I able to
tell "right" from "wrong." Just trying to determine which philosophy to
favor more. I've taken Nuckolls seminar and almost walked out during the
first day because it seemed more about Bob than about substance. But I also
sat and had dinner with Bob and his wonderful wife, and talked to him in
depth about a new curriculum and how to approach it. He was very well aware
that the seminars needed to be updated. I do like his book and do like that
his training efforts have made a difference in many respects for
homebuilders. I learned from him and am still learning. I don't know
anything about Richter, other than he was kind enough to discuss
developmental issues with my son while Greg was in the throes of bringing
out the BM in its early days. Not many would be open to discussion during
development. Ask Rob. He and his crew have been overwhelmed with work.
Hard to answer probing questions when you are in the development/test phase.
So, because of that, I have respect for Richter. Different flavors. Smart,
hard working people. Glad they're both around.
John J
Thinking about static air.
_____
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 7:35 AM
HOW DARE YOU! Oh wait, I agree with you. I think Bob's book is worth
every dime for guys like me that are strictly laymen. I personally don't
see it as a bible like many others and I have criticized people over on that
list for putting him on a pedestal. His list has a lot of good discussions
as long as you can separate the wheat from the chaff but there is a whole
lot of cheerleading. It does seem to be going to his head a bit as his
discussions are turning more philosophical than actually useful. But I
digress. The Aeroelectric Connection is really just a collection of very
old and well proven design philosophies but nothing ground shattering.
As for Greg's book, I too attended his seminar at the 2005 Airventure and
read his whitepaper. Good stuff also. It's funny how a little feud started
between Greg and Bob a while back witch spawned Greg's paper. Is either
approach wrong, not really. They just represent different design
philosophies.
Michael
_____
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 4:16 PM
Not to be blasphemous, but has anyone else found "The AeroElectric
Connection" somewhat anti-climatic, compared to the way it is often talked
about as a document right up there with the Bible, the Constitution, and the
Declaration of Independence? It seems to have some areas in need of an
update, and a lot of focus on plastic airplanes. Certainly there's some
good information in there, but you'd think the thing could walk on water . .
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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k5wiv(at)amsat.org
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:48 pm Post subject: Aircraft Wiring for Smart People |
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I just downloaded Greg's paper last night and have read only part of it. In
what I have read so far he has some good ideas, but I take strong exception
to some of his recommendations concerning shielding. Specifically his
statements about grounding shields on one end only! While there are cases
where grounding shields at both ends can cause problems with ground loops or
where the "ground" is at different voltages at each end, the general rule is
that at RF frequencies a shield is not a shield unless it is properly
terminated at both ends, and in most cases work better at all frequencies
when so terminated. The practice of terminating shields at one end only
originated many years ago with the telephone companies where the highest
frequencies encountered were in the audio range and where the connected
equipment was likely to be separated by significant distances.
I do agree with Greg's recommendation to use return leads rather than
depending on aircraft structure for the return. The concept of twisting
wires together is very good, although I believe that it should be done
primarily, if not only, with pairs (Supply voltage and return, signal and
return, etc.) because it helps to significantly reduce the vulnerability of
this wiring to noise interference and to the radiation of noise.
Jack Sargeant
1127 Patricia St.
Wichita, KS 67208-2642
316/683-5268
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Rick S.
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:32 pm Post subject: Aircraft Wiring for Smart People |
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Shields as addressed in Greg's and other pubs to include Lectric Bob's are not intended to protect the circut from RF, they are used to provide a dedicated ground for the system they are powering/controlling short of a high tension system where RF energy has the potential high voltage/energy to actually transmit electrical noise such as an ignition system which If I recall, both the source and the load are grounded to the sheild. Shields provide more than one function based on the application and the signal or power carried. Course dedicated two wire, single point ground systems should eliminate this interference and potential ground loops, especially when electric motors are involved.
Least that's what I heard. Taint no expert.
Rick S.
40185
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Rick S.
RV-10
40185 |
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