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marinegunner(at)gmail.com
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 Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:14 pm Post subject: receiving shipments - was Now What? |
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David,
Enjoyed your $.02 thoughts concerning damage. However, you stated "definitely note on waybill if there is damage to crate". None apparent, I checked, so no note on waybill for driver. Then you stated:
| Quote: | | "If the crate was fine and there was damage when you did your inventory then either Zenith put a damaged part in your crate (hard to believe) or you unknowingly did the damage yourself in the unpacking. Either way you should take photos and send them to Zenith right away. The quicker the damage is reported the less likely it was done by the builder." |
Interesting that you would only allude to two possibilities, either shipper (Zenith) put damaged part in crate or recipient did the damage. Very narrow thinking at best. There are several other potentials. Here is but one.
When I carefully opened crate I found the enclosed part to be pretty well packed and damaged. It was obvious that damage was due to the crate being "roughly handled" because very close looking found "slightly smashed outside corners on wooden crate, etc. Inside, part was "dented", which was the result of UPS dropping the crate a couple of feet - as they do all the time. I know, because we receive UPS, FedEX, DHL shipments many times a week and all of them drop things, etc. in their hurry to deliver. Very little care is taken, even with well marked boxes such as the crate from Zenith. Zenith packing appeared to have been done with care and well within normal excellent protection standards - they did not take any shortcuts with the packing or well made wooden crate. Pictures were taken, letters were written, etc. to all parties.
UPS uses someone else to provide and process insurance - who's apparent main job is to deny all that they can. UPS even took part and crate to "investigate" and "determine" what happened. Part and crate were carefully "marked" in an effort to determine what UPS might do during investigation. They did nothing and returned crate with part stating that they did not handle roughly or cause damage. The part had been repacked in the crate exactly like the pictures showed. Many pictures of the entire initial unpacking, etc. UPS never even opened the crate during their "investigation" Zenith is and has been aware of this from the very beginning (15 months and counting).
Most important, Zenith will receive any settlement if there ever is one - and might then send to me. Zenith told me at start that they do not make a strong effort to get insurance reimbursement. My completed part was insured as a completed part, not kit part, at a higher value than the kit part. Zenith is doing nothing to help with this situation. They simply do not seem to care. Or, if they care as Sebastian stated in his one email, they don't care enough to follow-up.
Thus, my advice when getting a shipment from Zenith, make yourself the insured, pay a bit extra to do so, then if there is damage, fight hard. Manufactures and shippers must be responsible for what they do or do not do - and this includes Zenith.
Most of my dealings with Zenith have been very good and I enjoy the airplanes - especially mine. But, they sometimes do not try to work hard with customers. Another case in point.
While at a fly-in in Casa Grande Az. a few months ago, Zac and Roger were there with the demonstrators. I had someone with me who was very interested in a demo ride in the 601. Explained to Roger and Zac that he was very interested. Could he get a ride, NO. Would either spend time with him to answer questions, NO! Did anyone from Zenith seem interested in a potential customer? No! Result, a probable lost sale. The person with me had the motivation and money to be a "closed" customer that day. Now, he will not consider any Zenith airplane.
Even with the majority of my limited, but first hand, experience with Zac, Roger and Sebastian and the factory staff being very good and fun, I cannot but wonder how many customers they might have chased away with such actions.
I can live with almost all that they do because it is good for all of us. But, none of us should have to live with indefference or lack of trying to resolve an issue. The damaged part issue is one that Zenith does not seem to care much about. Since they are the named folks for insurance and they choose not to work at a resolution, the consumer (me) is the one who takes it in the shorts. Not a lot of money, perhaps - but very frustrating and unnecessary.
Always remember - "Buyer Beware" as it seems the world has fewer people who operate with serious integrity.
This will be my last post concerning the shipping issue as I do not want to start something that is not really needed on this important forum.
Do not archive.
--
Semper Fi,
Steven R. Hulland
CH 600 Taildragger
Amado, AZ
This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help insure virus free email and attachments.
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n4546v(at)mindspring.com
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| Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:29 pm Post subject: receiving shipments - was Now What? |
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| Quote: | "If the crate was fine and there was damage when you did your inventory0 then either Zenith put a damaged part in your crate (hard to believe) or you0 unknowingly did the damage yourself in the unpacking."
"It was obvious that damage was due to the crate being "roughly handled" because very close looking found "slightly smashed outside corners0 on wooden crate, etc. Inside, part was "dented", which was the result of UPS0 dropping the crate a couple of feet - as they do all the time."
I have comments on the two quotes above:
If you see that the container is damaged, you should note that on the0 waybill, if no obvious damage to container, but you then find damage inside,0 you then make a "concealed damage" claim with a surface shipper.
Once when speaking to a UPS "quality"0 representative after catching one of their drivers, yet again, damaging our0 out-going product by throwing it into the truck, I asked what their0 specification was how far their drivers may throw parcels. The answer0 was the specification was "zero" distance throwing or dropping. 0 Parcels are to be handled and stacked, not thrown and dropped. I refer0 to the later as the "Post Office treatment".
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas
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[/quote]
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n801bh(at)netzero.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:10 pm Post subject: receiving shipments - was Now What? |
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Steve wrote"
>Most important, Zenith will receive any settlement if there ever is one - and might then send to >me. Zenith told me at start that they do not make a strong effort to get insurance r>eimbursement. My completed part was insured as a completed part, not kit part, at a higher v>alue than the kit part. Zenith is doing nothing to help with this situation. They simply do not s>eem to care. Or, if they care as Sebastian stated in his one email, they don't care enough to .follow-up.
>
>Thus, my advice when getting a shipment from Zenith, make yourself the insured, pay a bit >extra to do so, then if there is damage, fight hard. Manufactures and shippers must be >responsible for what they do or do not do - and this includes Zenith.
Boy .. this sure doesn't sound like the Zenith people I dealt with.
I want this archived too.
Also.. What the heck is a CH600 taildragger??
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Steve Hulland" <marinegunner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
David,
Enjoyed your $.02 thoughts concerning damage. However, you stated "definitely note on waybill if there is damage to crate". None apparent, I checked, so no note on waybill for driver. Then you stated:
| Quote: | | "If the crate was fine and there was damage when you did your inventory then either Zenith put a damaged part in your crate (hard to believe) or you unknowingly did the damage yourself in the unpacking. Either way you should take photos and send them to Zenith right away. The quicker the damage is reported the less likely it was done by the builder." |
Interesting that you would only allude to two possibilities, either shipper (Zenith) put damaged part in crate or recipient did the damage. Very narrow thinking at best. There are several other potentials. Here is but one.
When I carefully opened crate I found the enclosed part to be pretty well packed and damaged. It was obvious that damage was due to the crate being "roughly handled" because very close looking found "slightly smashed outside corners on wooden crate, etc. Inside, part was "dented", which was the result of UPS dropping the crate a couple of feet - as they do all the time. I know, because we receive UPS, FedEX, DHL shipments many times a week and all of them drop things, etc. in their hurry to deliver. Very little care is taken, even with well marked boxes such as the crate from Zenith. Zenith packing appeared to have been done with care and well within normal excellent protection standards - they did not take any shortcuts with the packing or well made wooden crate. Pictures were taken, letters were written, etc. to all parties.
UPS uses someone else to provide and process insurance - who's apparent main job is to deny all that they can. UPS even took part and crate to "investigate" and "determine" what happened. Part and crate were carefully "marked" in an effort to determine what UPS might do during investigation. They did nothing and returned crate with part stating that they did not handle roughly or cause damage. The part had been repacked in the crate exactly like the pictures showed. Many pictures of the entire initial unpacking, etc. UPS never even opened the crate during their "investigation" Zenith is and has been aware of this from the very beginning (15 months and counting).
Most important, Zenith will receive any settlement if there ever is one - and might then send to me. Zenith told me at start that they do not make a strong effort to get insurance reimbursement. My completed part was insured as a completed part, not kit part, at a higher value than the kit part. Zenith is doing nothing to help with this situation. They simply do not seem to care. Or, if they care as Sebastian stated in his one email, they don't care enough to follow-up.
Thus, my advice when getting a shipment from Zenith, make yourself the insured, pay a bit extra to do so, then if there is damage, fight hard. Manufactures and shippers must be responsible for what they do or do not do - and this includes Zenith.
Most of my dealings with Zenith have been very good and I enjoy the airplanes - especially mine. But, they sometimes do not try to work hard with customers. Another case in point.
While at a fly-in in Casa Grande Az. a few months ago, Zac and Roger were there with the demonstrators. I had someone with me who was very interested in a demo ride in the 601. Explained to Roger and Zac that he was very interested. Could he get a ride, NO. Would either spend time with him to answer questions, NO! Did anyone from Zenith seem interested in a potential customer? No! Result, a probable lost sale. The person with me had the motivation and money to be a "closed" customer that day. Now, he will not consider any Zenith airplane.
Even with the majority of my limited, but first hand, experience with Zac, Roger and Sebastian and the factory staff being very good and fun, I cannot but wonder how many customers they might have chased away with such actions.
I can live with almost all that they do because it is good for all of us. But, none of us should have to live with indefference or lack of trying to resolve an issue. The damaged part issue is one that Zenith does not seem to care much about. Since they are the named folks for insurance and they choose not to work at a resolution, the consumer (me) is the one who takes it in the shorts. Not a lot of money, perhaps - but very frustrating and unnecessary.
Always remember - "Buyer Beware" as it seems the world has fewer people who operate with serious integrity.
This will be my last post concerning the shipping issue as I do not want to start something that is not really needed on this important forum.
Do not archive.
--
Semper Fi,
Steven R. Hulland
CH 600 Taildragger
Amado, AZ
This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help insure virus free email and attachments.
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
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marinegunner(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:33 pm Post subject: receiving shipments - was Now What? |
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Ben,
CH600 is a plans built airplane. Very much like the CH601, except cockpit is a bit narrower. Someday soon I will send a picture of the airplane. Just to busy with some necessary personal administration right now. Should be done in ten days or so. Then will take time to send picture, etc.
Like I said, I really enjoyed meeting the folks at Zenith and felt from the beginning that they were a great group. However, this latest issue has clouded my thoughts a bit. I even offered a fairly easy solution that has never been acknowledged.
Do not archive.--
Semper Fi,
Steven R. Hulland
CH 600 Taildragger
Amado, AZ
This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help insure virus free email and attachments.
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
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