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jsflyrv(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:39 pm Post subject: Accident photos

Not sure if these have been posted here or not, sorry if this link has 

already been posted.



http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=63452&postcount=12

luckymacy(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:20 pm Post subject: Accident photos

I feel sorry for the Avenger crew too.  What the hell do you do once you've made that big of a mistake?  How does that person pick up the pieces an move on?

  

  ======

rv7(at)b4.ca
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:46 pm Post subject: Accident photos

On 19:13:24 2006-08-02 luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky) wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I feel sorry for the Avenger crew too.  What the hell do you do once

 you've made that big of a mistake?  How does that person pick up the

 pieces an move on?


	


Well, a Sony lipstick camera and a small LCD monitor may be a good start.



-Rob

Dave Johnson

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 7
Location: Erie, CO (48V, BJC)

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:07 pm Post subject: Re: Accident photos

Unfortunately, those photos were too offensive for some and have been removed from the site.



 	  jsflyrv(at)verizon.net wrote: 	
		  Not sure if these have been posted here or not, sorry if this link has 

already been posted.



http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=63452&postcount=12

jsflyrv(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 1:19 am Post subject: Accident photos

They were up when I posted the link. I am truly sorry for the families 

involved but if it were me in that

situation I would want those photos posted everywhere, so other pilots 

would never be lax about what is

going on around them at all times. Those photos were worth more than any 

words could ever be plus there was nothing

offensive about them, just a horrible accident site. I have seen much 

worse on TV and newspapers when it

comes to aircraft accidents and auto accidents.

Jerry

do not archive

Dave Johnson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

Unfortunately, those photos were too offensive for some and have been removed from the site.

jsflyrv(at)verizon.net wrote:

>Not sure if these have been posted here or not, sorry if this link has 

>already been posted.

>

>http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=63452&postcount=12

>    

>

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52694#52694

Doug Gray

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 112
Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 1:41 am Post subject: Accident photos

I agree.. 

The photos were priceless lesson material. I'm annoyed now that I did

not save copies in my 'Pilotage' directory. They should be mandatory

viewing for every tail-dragger pilot.

If someone has copies I would be grateful to receive them. Perhaps they

could be posted as attachments to the 'list.

Doug Gray

On Sun, 2006-08-06 at 02:18 -0700, Jerry Springer wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 They were up when I posted the link. I am truly sorry for the families 

 involved but if it were me in that

 situation I would want those photos posted everywhere, so other pilots 

 would never be lax about what is

 going on around them at all times. Those photos were worth more than any 

 words could ever be plus there was nothing

 offensive about them, just a horrible accident site. I have seen much 

 worse on TV and newspapers when it

 comes to aircraft accidents and auto accidents.

 Jerry

 do not archive

 Dave Johnson wrote:

 >

 >

 >Unfortunately, those photos were too offensive for some and have been removed from the site.

 >

 >

 >jsflyrv(at)verizon.net wrote:

 >  

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 >>Not sure if these have been posted here or not, sorry if this link has 

 >>already been posted.

 >>

 >>http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=63452&postcount=12

 >>    

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 >Read this topic online here:

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 >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52694#52694

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Gary.A.Sobek

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 217
Location: SoCAL USA

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:10 am Post subject: Accident photos

Not pictures but info:



http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id0060804X01093&key=1



http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id0060804X01093&key



Typically users of the forum upload images to:  http://www.imageshack.us but 

I have not found a way to seach for what others have stored there.

Gary A. Sobek

"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,

1,932 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA





----Original Message Follows----

Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com






I agree..

The photos were priceless lesson material. I'm annoyed now that I did

not save copies in my 'Pilotage' directory. They should be mandatory

viewing for every tail-dragger pilot.

If someone has copies I would be grateful to receive them. Perhaps they

could be posted as attachments to the 'list.

Doug Gray

On Sun, 2006-08-06 at 02:18 -0700, Jerry Springer wrote:

 > 

 >

 > They were up when I posted the link. I am truly sorry for the families

 > involved but if it were me in that

 > situation I would want those photos posted everywhere, so other pilots

 > would never be lax about what is

 > going on around them at all times. Those photos were worth more than any

 > words could ever be plus there was nothing

 > offensive about them, just a horrible accident site. I have seen much

 > worse on TV and newspapers when it

 > comes to aircraft accidents and auto accidents.

 >

 > Jerry

 >

 >

 >

 > Dave Johnson wrote:

 >

 > >

 > >

 > >Unfortunately, those photos were too offensive for some and have been 

removed from the site.

 > >

 > >

 > >jsflyrv(at)verizon.net wrote:

 > >

 > >

 > >>Not sure if these have been posted here or not, sorry if this link has

 > >>already been posted.

 > >>

 > >>http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=63452&postcount=12

 > >>

 > >>

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >Read this topic online here:

 > >

 > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52694#52694

 > >

Dave Johnson

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 7
Location: Erie, CO (48V, BJC)

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 5:19 am Post subject: Re: Accident photos

Spot on, Jerry. I got "moderated" on the VAF site for suggesting that it was poor judgement to remove the photos, and requesting a considerably broader censoring policy to allow such things in the future. The personal attacks toward me that followed from a handful of other posters were something to behold. If anyone has the photos, I will be glad to host them on my web server and link them back here. I'm going to start appending "if it pleases the king and his loyal subjects" to my posts over there 



I'm sure Doug is a great guy, but that experience was not a positive one for me.



Dave

 	  jsflyrv(at)verizon.net wrote: 	
		  They were up when I posted the link. I am truly sorry for the families 

involved but if it were me in that

situation I would want those photos posted everywhere, so other pilots 

would never be lax about what is

going on around them at all times. Those photos were worth more than any 

words could ever be plus there was nothing

offensive about them, just a horrible accident site. I have seen much 

worse on TV and newspapers when it

comes to aircraft accidents and auto accidents.



Jerry

ronlee(at)pcisys.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 5:27 am Post subject: Accident photos

 	  Quote: 	
		  They were up when I posted the link. I am truly sorry for the families 

involved but if it were me in that

situation I would want those photos posted everywhere, so other pilots 

would never be lax about what is

going on around them at all times. Those photos were worth more than any 

words could ever be plus there was nothing

offensive about them, just a horrible accident site. I have seen much 

worse on TV and newspapers when it

comes to aircraft accidents and auto accidents.



Jerry


	




I agree Jerry.  I seldom get any educational value from accident reports 

since most are

Darwinism case studies but this one was not something that I considered 

happening.



Ron Lee



Do not archive

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:25 am Post subject: Accident photos

About a year and a half ago the Matronics RV-10 list was essentially

dead and all of the -10 builders were on one of Doug's Yahoo list.

Several of us started to experience his idea of what was socially

acceptable through his moderation and so we worked with Matt to make a

couple of small modifications to his RV-10 list.  Once completed we all

promptly mutinied and left the Yahoo list which promptly shriveled and

died.  What really PO'd me was when he started to edit my posts with

absolutely no comment that he did so.  That was the last straw for me.

I feel a little sense of satisfaction that his RV-10 forum on his

website never took off either.



  I do not know Doug personally nor have I ever met him.  I also think

his website adds value to the RV community.  But understand that he now

runs it as a business to make money.  He may have started it with other

ideas but he has long since realized the profit potential and does not

tolerate any criticism of his actions.  I just wish he would drop the

pretense that anything the site makes are for his kids college fund.  As

a business it is his right to edit any content on his site whereas these

Matronics lists are a true community that is allowed to work through its

issues and determine what is acceptable.



Michael Sausen

-10 #352 on hiatus



--

Larry Bowen

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 802
Location: NC, USA

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 7:42 am Post subject: Accident photos

http://flickr.com/photos/bowen/tags/oshkosh2006accident/



-

Larry Bowen

Larry(at)BowenAero.com

http://BowenAero.com

 



[quote] --

_________________
Larry Bowen
RV-8 SOLD,
RV-7QB in progress...

jsflyrv(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 8:47 am Post subject: Accident photos

I see that Larry Bowen has posted a link to the photos, but just in case 

I did save copies of them I could send to anyone.



Jerry

do not archive



Doug Gray wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



I agree.. 

The photos were priceless lesson material. I'm annoyed now that I did

not save copies in my 'Pilotage' directory. They should be mandatory

viewing for every tail-dragger pilot.

If someone has copies I would be grateful to receive them. Perhaps they

could be posted as attachments to the 'list.

Doug Gray

On Sun, 2006-08-06 at 02:18 -0700, Jerry Springer wrote:

  



>

>

>They were up when I posted the link. I am truly sorry for the families 

>involved but if it were me in that

>situation I would want those photos posted everywhere, so other pilots 

>would never be lax about what is

>going on around them at all times. Those photos were worth more than any 

>words could ever be plus there was nothing

>offensive about them, just a horrible accident site. I have seen much 

>worse on TV and newspapers when it

>comes to aircraft accidents and auto accidents.

>

>Jerry

>

>do not archive

>Dave Johnson wrote:

>

>    

>

>>

>>

>>Unfortunately, those photos were too offensive for some and have been removed from the site.

>>

>>

>>jsflyrv(at)verizon.net wrote:

>> 

>>

>>      

>>

>>>Not sure if these have been posted here or not, sorry if this link has 

>>>already been posted.

>>>

>>>http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=63452&postcount=12

>>>   

>>>

>>>        

>>>

>>

>>

>>

>>Read this topic online here:

>>

>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52694#52694

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

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>>

>>

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>>

>>

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>> 

>>

>>      

>>

>

> 

>

>    

>

bertrv6(at)highstream.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 3:43 pm Post subject: Accident photos

Quoting "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>:



[quote] 

 <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>



   About a year and a half ago the Matronics RV-10 list was essentially

 dead and all of the -10 builders were on one of Doug's Yahoo list.

 Several of us started to experience his idea of what was socially

 acceptable through his moderation and so we worked with Matt to make a

 couple of small modifications to his RV-10 list.  Once completed we all

 promptly mutinied and left the Yahoo list which promptly shriveled and

 died.  What really PO'd me was when he started to edit my posts with

 absolutely no comment that he did so.  That was the last straw for me.

 I feel a little sense of satisfaction that his RV-10 forum on his

 website never took off either.



   I do not know Doug personally nor have I ever met him.  I also think

 his website adds value to the RV community.  But understand that he now

 runs it as a business to make money.  He may have started it with other

 ideas but he has long since realized the profit potential and does not

 tolerate any criticism of his actions.  I just wish he would drop the

 pretense that anything the site makes are for his kids college fund.  As

 a business it is his right to edit any content on his site whereas these

 Matronics lists are a true community that is allowed to work through its

 issues and determine what is acceptable.



 Michael Sausen

 -10 #352 on hiatus



 --

jsflyrv(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:23 pm Post subject: Accident photos

bertrv6(at)highstream.net wrote:



[quote]



Quoting "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>:



  



>

><rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>

>

>  About a year and a half ago the Matronics RV-10 list was essentially

>dead and all of the -10 builders were on one of Doug's Yahoo list.

>Several of us started to experience his idea of what was socially

>acceptable through his moderation and so we worked with Matt to make a

>couple of small modifications to his RV-10 list.  Once completed we all

>promptly mutinied and left the Yahoo list which promptly shriveled and

>died.  What really PO'd me was when he started to edit my posts with

>absolutely no comment that he did so.  That was the last straw for me.

>I feel a little sense of satisfaction that his RV-10 forum on his

>website never took off either.

>

>  I do not know Doug personally nor have I ever met him.  I also think

>his website adds value to the RV community.  But understand that he now

>runs it as a business to make money.  He may have started it with other

>ideas but he has long since realized the profit potential and does not

>tolerate any criticism of his actions.  I just wish he would drop the

>pretense that anything the site makes are for his kids college fund.  As

>a business it is his right to edit any content on his site whereas these

>Matronics lists are a true community that is allowed to work through its

>issues and determine what is acceptable.

>

>Michael Sausen

>-10 #352 on hiatus

>

>--

lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:46 pm Post subject: Accident photos

Bert,



I think that's why the "Subject Line" was labeled

accident photos so that people could elect to review

the post or move on. There was absolutely nothing in

the photos but information and an education for other

pilots. At an event such as OSH, I sure wouldn't take

the mind set that this could never happen to me! It

could have happened to anyone. We are saddened by the

accident and we have the utmost respect for the

family. It's a HUGE loss. I bet if you ask pilots that

have read the NTSB report and viewed the photos, they

will state they have learned something from both. And

I would bet the family has seen or will want to

sometime in the future, pictures of this accident.

It's can be a form of closure.



Darrell



do not archive





 	  Quote: 	
		   > I for one, do not want to see, the tragic results

 of this or any accident.

 Is bad enough, that one of our brothers in what we

 love most, flying, has

 met such fate.

 

 I do not belong to this generation for sure....this

 nonsense of" freedom"

 to profanity, vulgarity, pronography, show anything,

 do anything you want

 any time you want...

 

 The total degeneration os Society, no morals no

 right or wrong...

 

 Bert

 

 rv6a

 

 dop not archive


	




__________________________________________________

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject: Accident photos

The interesting thing is the pictures are from a distance and are

hardly graphic in the sense I think many are assuming.  But then again I

guess at 36 I'm part of that younger generation.



  To each his own and no one should be forced to see something.  I

believe an individual should be given the choice and I do not want

someone else making a moral decision for me.



But then again I could be completely wrong.  



Michael

Do not archive



--

dmaib@me.com

Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 454
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 5:28 pm Post subject: Accident photos

You are spot on Darrell. The photos were not gruesome. Coupled with  

the NTSB report, I have learned a big lesson from this sad event.  

These things CAN happen to any of us, so each time we learn from a  

painful event like this, we will reduce the chance of being involved  

in this type of accident.



David Maib

RV-10 #40559

tailcone



On Aug 6, 2006, at 7:46 PM, Darrell Reiley wrote:




<lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>



Bert,



I think that's why the "Subject Line" was labeled

accident photos so that people could elect to review

the post or move on. There was absolutely nothing in

the photos but information and an education for other

pilots. At an event such as OSH, I sure wouldn't take

the mind set that this could never happen to me! It

could have happened to anyone. We are saddened by the

accident and we have the utmost respect for the

family. It's a HUGE loss. I bet if you ask pilots that

have read the NTSB report and viewed the photos, they

will state they have learned something from both. And

I would bet the family has seen or will want to

sometime in the future, pictures of this accident.

It's can be a form of closure.



Darrell



do not archive





 	  Quote: 	
		  > I for one, do not want to see, the tragic results

 of this or any accident.

 Is bad enough, that one of our brothers in what we

 love most, flying, has

 met such fate.



 I do not belong to this generation for sure....this

 nonsense of" freedom"

 to profanity, vulgarity, pronography, show anything,

 do anything you want

 any time you want...



 The total degeneration os Society, no morals no

 right or wrong...



 Bert



 rv6a



 dop not archive


	




__________________________________________________

_________________
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL

Terry Watson

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 290
Location: Seattle, WA USA

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:19 pm Post subject: Accident photos

This is bit of a rant and you may have heard it from me before, so of course

delete if you want. Strong disagreement would be appropriate if you think

I'm off base.:



..........



I'm with Jerry on this one. We have censored each other to the point that we

can't talk about and learn anything from the loss of those who share our

interest in flying little airplanes. We can't talk about Scott Crossfield's

accident because that might not show the respect he deserves. We shouldn't

look at pictures of a beautiful RV-6 chopped up by a prop because it might

offend someone's sensibilities? 



None of us get out of this life alive and it stands to reason and past

experience that some of us are going to take our RV's with us. So again and

again, we are going to face the choice of trying to learn from a tragic

event, or to avert our eyes and avoid question or comment lest we offend the

dead, injured, their survivors, family, friends, or those who would have

been friends had they had a chance to know them. If you have been on this

list for very long you have likely lost good friends and friends you hadn't

actually met face to face yet. 



So here's MY request: If I screw up, or am the victim of someone else's

screw-up, or if my tail falls off because I forgot to bolt it on properly or

if I land long on a short runway or short of a long runway or if I scud run

myself into a mountain, or run out of gas crossing Puget Sound, please feel

free to postulate, speculate, blame, ridicule or whatever it takes to learn

enough from my misfortune, bad judgment or stupidity to prevent some other

soul from doing what lead to my demise. If I survive my misadventure I will

most likely want to set the record straight or paint myself in a more heroic

light, but if I don't, you will be on your own to sort it out.



Make the best of it.



What do you think the military's accident rate would be like if the S.O.P.

after an accident was for everyone to stick their head in the sand and

pretend it didn't happen?



My apologies in advance if anyone feels flamed by this. I do not want to

offend, just convince you that the more we know the safer we are. They put a

sheet over dead bodies out of respect of the dead and the sensibilities of

the living. That, in my mind, is the appropriate amount of censorship. 



Terry

RV-8A finishing

Seattle

aerobubba(at)earthlink.ne
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 6:02 am Post subject: Accident photos

 	  Quote: 	
		  ...I'm with Jerry on this one. We have censored each other to the point

that we
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  can't talk about and learn anything from the loss of those who share our

interest in flying little airplanes....


	


Very well put, Terry.  I couldn't agree more.  To paraphrase George

Santayana, "Those who don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it."   



glen matejcek

aerobubba(at)earthlink.net

mike
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 6:08 am Post subject: Re: Accident photos

I see nothing offensive on these pics, I now understand how difficult it was for the taxi of this big avenger, I personally have learned that if I get in a situation and am told to taxi in front of such an aircraft I will use my pilot in command option and stay put until the big worly plan passes me. My simpathy to both the pilot in the avenger and those in the RV6 and families.

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