 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
aerobubba(at)earthlink.ne
Guest
|
 Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:47 am Post subject: Oshkosh accident - Caution, on my Soapbox |
 |
|
Hi Jeff-
Thanks for your thoughtful and measured input. Personally, I like the
suggestion that warbird operations be responsible for warbird operations.
It seems to me that would be appropriate from both an experiential and
resource basis.
My other observation regards the comment "However, it was a freak
accident..." Perhaps this was a first for OSH, but it's not really an
isolated event. I can't recall the exact date, but within the last couple
of years here locally we had a couple of RV's taxiing to the fuel pumps
when one stopped and the other didn't. Fortunately, their relative sizes
precluded the kind of tragedy that occurred at the convention.
If you and your crew can come up with a plan to facilitate our success as
aviators, as well as help preserve our convention, then thank you very
much. However, it still falls to us as PIC's to protect ourselves and each
other. Please, people, be aware of your surroundings.
glen matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
rv7(at)b4.ca
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:18 am Post subject: Oshkosh accident - Caution, on my Soapbox |
|
|
On 5:44:47 2006-08-08 "glen matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> wrote:
| Quote: | My other observation regards the comment "However, it was a freak
accident..." Perhaps this was a first for OSH, but it's not really an
isolated event.
|
Not at all. The event I related from Reno a few years back is another (Sea
Fury meeting Lancair), but didn't a warbird overrun another warbird on
takeoff a few years back at Oshkosh? I seem to recall one radial-engined
warbird overrunning another after a miscommunication of takeoff procedure
during a formation flight.
But that being said, why are we discussing this on the RV-List?
-Rob
do not archive
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:30 am Post subject: Oshkosh accident - Caution, on my Soapbox |
|
|
Charlie Kuss wrote:
| Quote: | | Quote: | snipped
Obviously, the large tail dragger pilot also has full responsibility
to taxi safely, but the "system" should make every effort to put him
in a situation where that is possible. If the taxi way is too narrow
to allow S-turns, then the only way a large tail dragger can taxi
safely is with some outside assistance. The Avenger pilot was put in
a very difficult situation. Once he was marshalled onto a narrow
taxi way with no wing walkers, he had two choices: press on and hope
for the best, or shut down and become a road block. He gambled with
option 1, and he lost.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 |
Kevin,
He could have asked his wife to get out and act as a spotter. He had a choice.
Just playing devils advocate
Charlie Kuss |
Good point Charlie. There were lots of things that COULD have been done ... but none were. However, I would have loved to hear what she said after he made her get out and walk!!! 
Linn
do not archive
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
flyrv6(at)bryantechnology
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 3:32 pm Post subject: Oshkosh accident - Caution, on my Soapbox |
|
|
There is an additional thing that is troubling me. The avenger pilot apparently *Thought* he was following the tundra. At some point when he turned onto the taxiway, should he not have made a mental note of who he was actually following? Not to be confused with flaming the pilot, as things obviously happen and the focus is to prevent it from happening again.
Also, while the controllers in the tower are very busy, could a person be placed in the tower having good visibility over the taxiways to watch. Are the airplanes on the taxiways monitoring the ground frequency? I have not flown into Osh, but have attended. I do realize how big this event is. These are just questions. If someone was watching from the tower, they most likely couldn't have seen every movement all the time, but when seeing a large tailwheel aircraft following a small (RV) type aircraft, a simple "Avenger pilot, confirm you can see the RV aircraft in front of you" might have gone along way.
Tim
[i]----
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lm4(at)juno.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:57 am Post subject: Oshkosh accident - Caution, on my Soapbox |
|
|
Rob,
That accident was Frank Pardue either not hearing or not
listening to the controllers and starting his take off roll with two
warbirds on the runway in front of him. He hit one of them with
enough energy to do a flaming cartwheel over the one he hit.
As to your second question. We are trying to protect our RV's,
and our butts, by looking at the small system, our RV's taxiing,
and the big system, heavy taxi traffic at OSH, and trying to make
some sense of it all.
Larry Mac Donald
lm4(at)juno.com
Rochester N.Y.
Do not achcive
On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 08:17:35 -0700 "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7(at)b4.ca> writes:
| Quote: |
On 5:44:47 2006-08-08 "glen matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net>
wrote:
> My other observation regards the comment "However, it was a freak
> accident..." Perhaps this was a first for OSH, but it's not
really an
> isolated event.
Not at all. The event I related from Reno a few years back is
another (Sea
Fury meeting Lancair), but didn't a warbird overrun another warbird
on
takeoff a few years back at Oshkosh? I seem to recall one
radial-engined
warbird overrunning another after a miscommunication of takeoff
procedure
during a formation flight.
But that being said, why are we discussing this on the RV-List?
-Rob
do not archive
|
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
aerobubba(at)earthlink.ne
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:54 am Post subject: Oshkosh accident - Caution, on my Soapbox |
|
|
Hi Rob-
| Quote: | On 5:44:47 2006-08-08 "glen matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> wrote:
> My other observation regards the comment "However, it was a freak
> accident..." Perhaps this was a first for OSH, but it's not really an
> isolated event.
Not at all. The event I related from Reno a few years back is another (Sea
Fury meeting Lancair), but didn't a warbird overrun another warbird on
takeoff a few years back at Oshkosh? I seem to recall one radial-engined
warbird overrunning another after a miscommunication of takeoff procedure
during a formation flight.
But that being said, why are we discussing this on the RV-List?
-Rob
|
Well, for a couple of reasons. We lost a brother. That is of concern and
interest to us. We don't want this to happen again.
As to my post in particular, I was trying to not put too fine a point on it
and was perhaps a bit too successful. A lot of the previous commentary on
this list seemed to imply that, just as in the case you cited, the problem
is one of a large aircraft following a smaller one, and as such is perhaps
not a problem we need to concern ourselves with too much in our daily ops.
That is not the case. Size differential exacerbates the situation, but it
is not the cause. A lack of situational awareness (SA) is the cause. Had
the TBM known the RV was there, he would have stopped short. Had the RV
known the TBM was about to run him over, he'd have goosed it and run off
into the grass or some such. The biggest killer of GA pilots is continued
VFR into IMC. Same problem, lack of SA.
This leads directly to the next issue: rules. You can't regulate SA. All
you can do is pre-assess blame. Case in point: Barring other input from
ATC, after landing at a tower controlled airport, you are to clear the
runway ASAP but remain clear of the parallel taxiway. Unfortunately, the
taxiway is generally too close to the runway for an air carrier aircraft to
turn off and be clear of both the taxiway and the runway. The end result
is that if there is a conflict, the bureaucracy is protected and the PIC is
to blame. Do we really need more of that?
The better we are at policing ourselves, the less the feds will be inclined
to do so. And that is precisely what comes of these exchanges on our list.
glen matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gcomfo(at)tc3net.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:42 pm Post subject: Oshkosh accident - Caution, on my Soapbox |
|
|
--
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
