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Flying without doors
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tc9008(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:06 am Post subject: Flying without doors

Has anyone Flown their kitfox without doors?

FLIER(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:00 am Post subject: Flying without doors

Flown my IV with'em open, not off, but it shouldn't 

make any difference.  Flies fine.  Lot of breeze!



Just make sure your turtledeck is secure as there's a 

lot of pressure on it.



Regards,



Ted



--- Original Message ---

From: tc9008(at)aol.com

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Flying without doors



 	  Quote: 	
		   Has anyone Flown their kitfox without doors? 

_____________________________________________________

___________________

wingnut

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:09 am Post subject: Re: Flying without doors

Did you do something to secure your doors in the up position? I'd like to try it but my doors are only supported by the lift struts. I was worried that the doors would bang around.



How about flying without a turtledeck?

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:37 am Post subject: Flying without doors

Although I have never flown with the doors removed, I have flown with both 

doors open and mine open as I take photos.  I find that with the doors open, 

the doors give a little bit of lift as the nose will pitch up a bit as the 

door rises.



Others have much more experience with open door flying and I know there are 

listers that routinely remove their doors for summer flying.



Lowell

---

darinh

Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 327
Location: Utah

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:03 am Post subject: Re: Flying without doors

I have flown with them off and also with them open.  Didn't notice a difference between the two.  I should mention that these were the bubble doors, not the stock doors.



Darin

n981ms(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:04 am Post subject: Flying without doors

I fly our 6 with doors open occasionally.  No extra support is needed but I limit airspeed to less than 80 kts.  I had the left door "flutter" once in a descent at about 85-90kts.  It was a slow cycle not what I would typically think of as flutter but it went up and down forcefully enough to cause a small crack in the LP bubble door.

   

  Maxwell S6/TD/IO240



wingnut <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com> wrote:

  [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" 



Did you do something to secure your doors in the up position? I'd like to try it but my doors are only supported by the lift struts. I was worried that the doors would bang around.



How about flying without a turtledeck?





Read this topic online

FLIER(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:26 am Post subject: Flying without doors

The doors 'fly' fine when they're open on only the 

lift struts.



--- Original Message ---

From: "wingnut" <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com>

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Flying without doors



 	  Quote: 	
		  

<wingnut(at)spamarrest.com>
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  

Did you do something to secure your doors in the up 

position? I'd like to try it but my doors are only 
	


supported by the lift struts. I was worried that the 

doors would bang around.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

How about flying without a turtledeck?





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?

p=53678#53678
	


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Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:33 am Post subject: Flying without doors

On Aug 9, 2006, at 8:36 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Although I have never flown with the doors removed, I have flown with 

 both doors open and mine open as I take photos.


	


Just like Lowell, I also open a door when I, or my passenger want to 

take photos. It may be different from model to model but my Kitfox 

model 3 will keep the door open, even if there was no lift struts. 

Closing them is not difficult either, it takes a bit of a pull but not 

too much. Landing with the doors open doesn't seem to affect the flying 

characteristics nor the stall speed, even as the door is pretty close 

to the wing.



One thing, though: Try to avoid having loose objects, like maps, etc. 

when opening the doors and preferably, don't side slip. Someone on this 

list managed to blow off his turtle deck by doing that, if I am not 

mistaking.



Also from reading this list and not from own experience, flying without 

turtle deck is very much reducing the lift of the plane. Someone else 

will certainly explain to you why.



Cheers,

Michel

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

rjdaugh(at)rapidnet.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:39 am Post subject: Flying without doors

Wing nut,  

I fly my series 5/7 with doors open.  But I do try to limit speed to about 85 mph.  

   

There was a caution on the list a while back to NOT fly without the turtle deck.   I don’t have any experience with this, but can believe that is not a good idea.  

   

Randy    

.             

  

         

  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of W Duke

 Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 1:03 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Flying without doors  

  

     

I fly our 6 with doors open occasionally.  No extra support is needed but I limit airspeed to less than 80 kts.  I had the left door "flutter" once in a descent at about 85-90kts.  It was a slow cycle not what I would typically think of as flutter but it went up and down forcefully enough to cause a small crack in the LP bubble door.  

    

   

    

Maxwell S6/TD/IO240

 

 wingnut <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com> wrote:  

   	  Quote: 	
		    

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" 

 

 Did you do something to secure your doors in the up position? I'd like to try it but my doors are only supported by the lift struts. I was worried that the doors would bang around.

 

 How about flying without a turtledeck?

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online

wingnut

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:54 am Post subject: Re: Flying without doors

Cool. This is good news. The heat index in South Carolina has been in the triple digits for a couple of weeks now. I've often thought about flying with the doors up but never had the courage to try it. Maybe now I'll give it a try.. Sheesh, my palms are getting a little sweaty just writing about it...

tc9008(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:28 pm Post subject: Flying without doors

I actually took the doors off and left them off all summer. I was afraid it would damage the shocks if I didn't . It appears to decend very rapidly but in NC it's a blessing with the heat.

   Travis  

 --

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:30 pm Post subject: Flying without doors

This post brings to mind a flutter I had early this year.  I attributed it 

to weak gas struts.  I ordered new ones and for the one most often open - 

mine, I ordered a stronger strut.  No problems since.



Lowell

---

morid(at)northland.lib.mi
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:37 pm Post subject: Flying without doors

I've never actually removed mine either.  They fly just fine opened up so I

never felt a need to remove them.  So long as the ball is in the center

there's very little wind.

Deke



---

Richard Rabbers

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 114
Location: Benton Harbor, MI - USA

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:10 pm Post subject: Re: Flying without doors

No real time KF experience here - just thoughts.



Doors and cabin breeze

 - It might be interesting to clamp on some sort of deflect at the front edge of - like a sun roof on a car.



Turtle Deck

- I'd imagine alot of turbulance as a result of 'no turtle deck' flight. Same wonder as above - might a deflector help windflow and reduce turbulance.

Lost lift must be a result of turbulant.

_________________
Richard in SW Michigan
Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration)

FLIER(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:54 pm Post subject: Flying without doors

There's suction back across the turtledeck from the 

lift created by the wings and aft cabin.  Coupled 

with windblast puts a lot of pressure on the 

turtledeck.



--- Original Message ---

From: Michel Verheughe <michel(at)online.no>

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Flying without doors

 	  Quote: 	
		  

Also from reading this list and not from own 

experience, flying without 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  turtle deck is very much reducing the lift of the 

plane. Someone else 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  will certainly explain to you why.



Cheers,

Michel

msm_9949(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:02 pm Post subject: Flying without doors

Does it make any difference if only one door is open?



Fox5flyer <morid(at)northland.lib.mi.us> wrote:  



I've never actually removed mine either. They fly just fine opened up so I

never felt a need to remove them. So long as the ball is in the center

there's very little wind.

Deke



Marco Menezes

Model 2 582 N99KX

 __________________________________________________

barry(at)pgtc.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:11 pm Post subject: Flying without doors

I fly my model IV often with one door open and it is mostly held open by the 

slipstream but occasionally trys to close.  With both doors open it is just 

too windy.  I think the open door slows me a bit but not enough to worry 

about.  I would not fly it with the trutledeck removed.



Barry West

---

janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:12 pm Post subject: Flying without doors

I would say...if it works ok flying with doors open then leave it. I've see the result of adding deflectors - spoilers etc on a/c thinking it will help but unless you can wind tunnel test...dont. In this case you might loose the door completely.

 

 [quote]   

From:  "Richard Rabbers" <rira1950(at)yahoo.com>

Reply-To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject:  Re: Flying without doors

Date:  Wed, 9 Aug 2006 14:10:24 -0700

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" <rira1950(at)yahoo.com>



No real time KF experience here - just thoughts.



Doors and cabin breeze

  - It might be interesting to clamp on some sort of deflect at the front edge of - like a sun roof on a car.



Turtle Deck

- I'd imagine alot of turbulance as a result of 'no turtle deck' flight. Same wonder as above - might a deflector help windflow and reduce turbulance.

Lost lift must be a result of turbulant.



--------

Richard in SW Michigan

Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus

Wilson(at)REinfo.org
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:16 pm Post subject: Flying without doors

Bubble Doors?  I have been trying to get information on Bubble Doors.  What 

are they like?  Can you send a photo?  Did you build them, or did you buy 

them?  If you bought them, where and how much?

Steve Wilson



---

kitfoxpilot(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:42 pm Post subject: Flying without doors

I have the bubble doors on my Model IV, and luv them>  you can buy them from 

L/P aero plastics.



Ray

[quote]From: "Steve Wilson" <Wilson(at)REinfo.org>

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Re: Flying without doors

Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 17:15:35 -0600






Bubble Doors?  I have been trying to get information on Bubble Doors.  What 

are they like?  Can you send a photo?  Did you build them, or did you buy 

them?  If you bought them, where and how much?

Steve Wilson



---

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