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801 RIVET SUBSTITUTION

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pacificpainting(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:59 pm Post subject: 801 RIVET SUBSTITUTION

Can anyone give me a reason why I can't use an AN  bolt on my 801 wing spar instead of a A6 pop rivet? There is only one on  each. If they sent them, which they probably did, I can't find them. I assume  the bolt is a lot stronger than a rivet anyway.

  

 Dave in Salem    

 801

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lrm(at)skyhawg.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 6:56 pm Post subject: 801 RIVET SUBSTITUTION

That's what I used on my 701 and the horizontal  too.  And they sent me rivets.  It just felt better.  Your  assumption is correct.  Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com

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pacificpainting(at)comcas
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:16 pm Post subject: 801 RIVET SUBSTITUTION

I forgot until now, but I used some bolts on the HS  also. Some places it just seems stronger. 

  

  

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grs-pms(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:25 pm Post subject: 801 RIVET SUBSTITUTION

What the A6 rivet has in its favor is that it fills  the hole and therefore it picks up its share of the normal operating load. The  bolt is stronger, but if it isn't a tight fit in the hole it only goes to  work when the structure is already distorted some.  In a critical location  a close tolerance bolt in a reamed hole is called for.  An AN3 or AN4 bolt  in a drilled hole probably isn't tight enough.  How critical is the  particular hole in the spar?  Good question.

  

 George

  

 Do not archive

  

  

  

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pacificpainting(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:27 pm Post subject: 801 RIVET SUBSTITUTION

I don't think it is critical enough to be concerned  about. The hole I drilled out is a good fit. The spar is factory riveted with  solid rivets. The only reason this one isn't done is that the nose rib has to be  attached with that hole along with the others. The spar is doubled in that area.  I'm not concerned about it, just curious about the strength of the rivet versus  bolt.

  

  

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grs-pms(at)comcast.net
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:11 pm Post subject: 801 rivet substitution

A driven or squeezed rivet puts the surrounding  material in compression, which is good from the standpoint of fatigue  resistance.  A pulled rivet also expands to fill its hole.  A  bolt hole which is oversize or one which is out of round feels to the  surrounding material like an open hole. An open hole is a definite  "stress-riser", a place where a fatigue crack may start.     Fastener strength isn't the first concern here.  Either a rivet or a  bolt has adequate strength.

  

 A bolt is OK from a fatigue standpoint if  it is tight enough to swell the hole as it is pressed or tapped into  place.  Common AN bolts have enough variation in diameter that  you can't count on getting a tight fit, particularly in a drilled  hole.  Close tolerance AN bolts (AN173, AN174 etc) are made for  this reason.  The combination of a close-tolerance bolt in a reamed hole of  the proper diameter provides good fatigue resistance as well as strength.  The Standard Aircraft Handbook defines the proper hole diameter as being a  maximum of .0015 larger than the diameter of the close tolerance bolt in  question.  It takes a reamer to get this kind of tolerance.

  

  I used AN 173 bolts in reamed  holes in that spot in my 601 spars.  I was a structures designer, and loose  holes in spar chords make me nervous.  

  

 Enough on this subject.  If I don't get off my  duff and finish the airplane fatigue won't be a problem anyway.

  

 George

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pacificpainting(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:15 pm Post subject: 801 rivet substitution

George,

  

 Thanks for the good information. I guess I better  find the rivets or buy some more. There is only 2 and who knows what I did with  them.

  

  

 Dave in Salem

 801

  

  

  

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grs-pms(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:46 pm Post subject: 801 rivet substitution

You could check the situation with Chris  Heintz.  Could be that the stresses are low enough in that  location that you are OK.  He would know.

  

 George

  

 do not archive

  

 From: Dave Ruddiman (pacificpainting(at)comcast.net) 

 [quote]   To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com (zenith-list(at)matronics.com) 

   Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 2:13    PM

   Subject: Re: 801 rivet    substitution

   



   George,

    

   Thanks for the good information. I guess I better    find the rivets or buy some more. There is only 2 and who knows what I did    with them.

    

    

   Dave in Salem

   801

    

    

    

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