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Tailwheel Tango

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colind

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 32
Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 3:10 pm Post subject: Tailwheel Tango

Wow! What a lot of heat this is generating!



Ground-loops, nosewheels snapped off, too heavy for the HP, rough ground...



Flying is too much fun to bother with all this! In the air, it really

doesn't matter if its tailwheel or nosewheel. On takeoff, and landing, the

dominant factor is pilot skill. If you aren't competent on the aircraft

type, don't fly it untill you get the right training/skills. If you can't

handle short/rough strips, don't use them untill you get the skills.



If you like tailwheelers, go fly them! If you like nosewheelers, go fly them!



Anyway, nosewheel - tailwheel, almost all gliders have only one wheel (and

just a teeny little fixed tail wheel or skid (OK, some have a castoring

one), so throw that into your argument. The belly wheel is fwd of the a/c

mass and is subject to the same mass rotation issues as powered a/c. They

often use rough strips. They have no motor, so HP is not a factor. You

have the issue of working to keep your wings level, or at least stable,

and not striking the ground untill you are really slow, so you don't take

one off, or bend it. Nobody gets uptight about there being just one wheel

(except beginners)but, by training, develop the pilot skills to be

proficient at it, and then by maintaining those skills. And there are very

few directional-control type incidents in gliders, either t/o or landing.

At least they don't have prop-strike problems. Ha! Ha!



I'm looking forward to getting my 'Fox flying soon, and would be happy

anyway if it were tailwheel or nosewheel, although I prefer tailwheel. Who

cares? I just like flying!

Regards



Colin Durey

Sydney

+61-418-677073 (M)

+61-2-945466162 (F)

_________________
Colin Durey
Sydney
+61-418-677073

mike
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:19 am Post subject: Re: Tailwheel Tango

I agree, who cares, as long as I'm flying.  I just mainly prefer a stick over a steering wheel.  Hah Hah, lets start a new one now, sticks over wheels.  I was flying my number two favorate machine this weekend, put 500 miles on her.  The BMW R1100RT.  Now that's a fun machine, should have a sticker on it that says, "I'm not going fast just flying low".  I laugh at the motorcycles that have a third wheel, triks.  Ooops! here we go again on that one.  Some of you are trying to figure how to do wheel landings, try touching on the left wheel, then raise up a little and touch on the right wheel.  Or come in and drag the tail wheel about 50 feet or so down the runway.  THis is way cool also, breaks the bordom, if you have any, or if you just want to impress the tower people.

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:20 am Post subject: Tailwheel Tango

I saw a fellow in '64 at the first EAA fly in at Rockford Ill. Run the

length of a runway in, I think it was a P51, dragging a wheel he had

installed on the top of his rudder... Yep that's right he was inverted.



Note to self......  Don't ever get that bored!!



Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

spudnuts

Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 15

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:46 am Post subject: Re: Tailwheel Tango

I'll agree with that, I hate steering wheels!  



As far as tailwheel, I didn't mean to start a holy war here, it was a serious question.  I've read every response and have another tailwheel lesson lined up for this week.  



It looks like for a bush plane, going into small rough strips, you can't beat a tailwheel.  It takes some extra skill, (quite a bit I'm finding!) but a nose wheel plane just ain't gonna cut it. Period.



However, for a less skilled pilot (me) who is only going into paved strips and perhaps the occasional finely manicured grass strip, a nose wheel is easier to land and take off and has an edge in heavy cross winds. A bonus is the insurance companies (who run everything with statistics) will give me a better rate with a nose wheel.



I agree with the tailwheelers, (and the head CFI here at my flight school too) that learning to fly tailwheel makes you a better pilot.  No question about it!  Which is why I am taking tailwheel lessons and going after my endorsement.



Now, do I want a tailwheel airplane?  Well, for my application, not really.



I'm on the east coast in middle virgina.  The only grass strips around here are private, but there are TONS of small town airports with paved strips, cheap gas and courtesy cars, not far from a grocery store.  Most have camping on the field.  I love weekend fly-camping.  Often near some water with some fishing and a boat rental thrown in.  Beer and steak on the grill and a night in the tent.  Ahh.  I just want to get in and out as easily as possible.  The extra risk of 'loosing it' just that once and doing a ground loop or weathervane into a ditch just isn't worth it to me.  But that's just me.



Someone said in one of the posts, it's your airplane, you fly it for you, no one else.  Or something like that.  I think thats 100% the answer I was looking for.

occom(at)ns.sympatico.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:10 am Post subject: Tailwheel Tango

Oh, there you go Mike! Starting another arguement. You know as well as I 

that BMW stopped making decent bikes with the demise of the airhead. My old 

R60 is a "proper" Beemer, it's even black with white pins just as they 

should be.

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dave(at)cfisher.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:11 am Post subject: Tailwheel Tango

Spudnuts,

So me valid points there on the two differances.



I would like to add that soft fields are a bous for taildraggers as well.



And I don't really think that you will land a trigear Kitfox in 15 to 25 

knot  x winds and not in a taildragger. It is all about yaw control and you 

fly either till it lands on  one,two or three wheels and still maintain 

control throughout your roll out.

Dave



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occom(at)ns.sympatico.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:52 am Post subject: Tailwheel Tango

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mike
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:39 am Post subject: Re: Tailwheel Tango

Ok on a crosswind, you won't be landing crosswind over 15mph with a kitfox, why? because you head into the wind and land so slow you can do it cross runway with the taxi way as the runout.  You might as well open the door and pick up any FOD that might be out there as well.

mike
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:04 am Post subject: Re: Tailwheel Tango

Hay! any BMW is better than a Harley. Wooooops! I did it again.

torgemor(at)online.no
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:32 am Post subject: Tailwheel Tango

Ahh,.  This is the one I've been waiting for.



15 mph is equal to 13 kts.



Nice topics.



Torgeir.



On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 20:39:54 +0200, kitfoxmike <kitfoxmike(at)yahoo.com>  

wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Ok on a crosswind, you won't be landing crosswind over 15mph with a  

 kitfox, why? because you head into the wind and land so slow you can do  

 it cross runway with the taxi way as the runout.  You might as well open  

 the door and pick up any FOD that might be out there as well.



 --------

 kitfoxmike

 kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster

 http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike

 rv7 wingkit

 reserved 287RV





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=56125#56125




	


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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:08 pm Post subject: Tailwheel Tango

Good point mike.  Another major benefit of a tailwheel is the water skiing 

seen with the South African T-6s.  We have a couple of guys that do that a 

lot and the third wouldn't do it this trip as he was in a tri gear Rans 

rather than in his tail wheel Rans.  Following him, I could see his good 

judgement, as in flying configuration his nose wheel was a couple of inches 

below his mains.  That might have made a rather spectacular video if he had 

sunk the single out front before the mains.



Lowell

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darinh

Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 327
Location: Utah

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:07 pm Post subject: Re: Tailwheel Tango

The reason I flew my Model III as a tailwheel and will fly my Series 7 in tailwheel configuration was confirmed by an incident  my buddy had about a month ago while landing at a realatively benign strip in the Idaho backcountry...he was in his 182.  



In short, he went into this strip (which he had been into numerous times before) to camp with some friends and do some fishing.  On Sunday they got up to fly home and decided to walk the strip once before starting the takeoff roll.  The reason for the walk was to pickout all major gopher holes.  They made a thourough inspection and marked all major holes then began their taxi to the downwind side of the strip.  During this taxi, a hole that was not seen in the previous inspection swallowed his nose wheel and he had a pretty major prop strike!  His 182 is still in the A&P's hanger and is going through a complete teardown (he is consequently considering a full rebuild to 0-time the engine) and while the insurance is covering a major part of it, it is still a major cost to him in dollars and lost flying time.



I think the worst part of it is that he now will not go into these strips and has lost some major utility of his airplane due to his fear of hitting another unseen gopher hole.  I have talked to him alot about it and he is confident that had he been in my Fox or in any tailwheel, he would have either bounced through the hole or at worst caught the wheel and turned him a bit (he was taxiing at around 1 mph estimated).  



I know of another fellow who tried a landing on the salt flats of the Great Salt Lake and buried the nosewheel and had a prop strike (lucky he was travelling very slowly or it would have likely flipped).  I have landed countless times on the soft sand and have not had a single problem.



There are definately pros and cons to each setup but for the type of flying I like to do, the tailwheel is the only setup for me.  I also like the challenge of landing the tailwheel...I don't think it is harder, simply requires a bit more attention and keeps you on your toes.  I think pilots who have never landed a tailwheel tend to overexaggerate the difficulties involved.  I for one love tailwheels!



Darin

Ex Model III flyer (Tailwheel)

Current Series 7 builder (of course tailwheel)

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:26 pm Post subject: Tailwheel Tango

This is a great reply in my opinion.  I have 20 inch tires on my mains and 

it would take a major gopher hole to swallow one of these puppies.  At 

Oshkosh two years ago there was one homebuilt that had similar tires on the 

mains as well as the nose wheel.  Major drag, I suspect.



Lowell

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kirkhull(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:44 pm Post subject: Tailwheel Tango

That reminds me of a sad story.  About 2 months ago I was going to the EAA

chapter meeting at 3EX.  When I arrived at the airport there was a nice

shiny new 205 being tied down.  It had 25 hours total time.  It left the

factory in Independence Kansas flew to Florida where it was based, a couple

of short hops then to Kansas City MO. For a business trip.  The sad part

started with a bad landing and the disassembly of a runway light with the

prop.  Apparently there was a lot of power being applied because the prop

hub broke leaving one blade barely hanging in the spinner. A new prop was

installed a few days later and the plane was ferried back to the factory in

Independence Ks. For a complete overhaul.   



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