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dean.psiropoulos(at)veriz
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 Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:13 pm Post subject: Fuel System PIAs |
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I've been fighting with finalizing my fuel lines firewall forward and having
a tough time of it, I'm sure someone can help so the particulars are:
RV-6A with tricycle gear (motor mount tubes that provide support to the nose
gear mount interfere with certain items in the carburetor area). Mattituck
360 with standard (updraft, ie carburetor) sump. Mattituck installed
Airflow Performance fuel injection (updraft servo that mounts on the bottom
of the sump) with fuel return valve. Issues include:
1) A flexible fire sleeved fuel line runs from the fuel return valve
(mounted right next to the flow divider on top of the engine) straight down
between the right side cylinders through a rubber grommet in the
inter-cylinder baffles. Where it comes out of the inter-cylinder baffles, if
it were to go straight down then around to the servo, it would be right
between the crossover pipe of the exhaust and the side of the sump with
literally no clearance between the two (ie. It would be squeezed between
the exhaust pipe and sump, not a good thing in my book, even with
fire-sleeve). But....if I bend the flexible line so it does a 90 degree
turn out of the inter-cylinder baffle(toward the rear)above the intake
tubes, it looks like a pretty tight bend and I worry about pinching off the
flow. Any ideas?
2) Fuel line to the outlet of the mechanical pump. I bought Van's FWF kit
which contained an elbow fitting that threads into the outlet of the fuel
pump (also contains a tapped hole for the fuel sensor restrictor fitting).
Problem is if the fitting is installed with the elbow pointing down, it
points right in line with one of the motor mount tubes that supports the
nose gear mount, no way the fuel line to the servo will connect to it that
way!! Is there a 45 degree fitting or should I try to turn this one aft and
see if things work that way?
3) Mechanical fuel pump bypass. An A&P friend was looking at my AFP fuel
system and the pump they provide and seemed to think I need to tee the fuel
line around the mechanical pump with a check valve so as not to damage the
mechanical pump when the electric pump is operating. First I've heard of
this but maybe I missed something somewhere. Do I need to make a bypass for
the mechanical pump when using the AFP electric fuel pump or can I just run
the output of the electric pump directly into the mechanical pump?
4) VM1000 flowscan fuel flow sensor. Looks to me like I'm going to end up
mounting it on one of the motor mount tubes with adel clamps and long lines
(~2 to 2.5 feet each) between the servo and sensor and the sensor and flow
divider. I know Don Rivera of AFP recommends this method but I'm wondering
if 4-5 feet of line between the flow divider and servo will cause any
problems? Also has anyone done this any other way (ie mounted the flowscan
sensor between an updraft servo and flow divider in a more efficient manner,
without using long hoses)?
Pictures of your finished and working set-up would be most appreciated, this
thing has really been bugging me! And, come to think of it as has trying to
get the throttle and mixture control cables to hook up, any suggestions here
would also be appreciated as Van's standard (carburetor)control cables
aren't quite right either! Thanks.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Pullin my hair out (what's left of it) in Florida
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dan(at)rvproject.com
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:45 pm Post subject: Fuel System PIAs |
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| Quote: | 1) A flexible fire sleeved fuel line runs from the fuel return valve
(mounted right next to the flow divider on top of the engine) straight
down
between the right side cylinders through a rubber grommet in the
inter-cylinder baffles. Where it comes out of the inter-cylinder baffles,
if
it were to go straight down then around to the servo, it would be right
between the crossover pipe of the exhaust and the side of the sump with
literally no clearance between the two (ie. It would be squeezed between
the exhaust pipe and sump, not a good thing in my book, even with
fire-sleeve). But....if I bend the flexible line so it does a 90 degree
turn out of the inter-cylinder baffle(toward the rear)above the intake
tubes, it looks like a pretty tight bend and I worry about pinching off
the
flow. Any ideas?
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I can speak to this item, at least. I ran my purge return hose straight aft
through rear baffle wall, then to the connection on the lower firewall.
Photos here: http://www.rvproject.com/20031101.html
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (1042 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
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Mark Phillips in TN
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 431
Location: Columbia, TN
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:43 am Post subject: Fuel System PIAs |
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In a message dated 08/22/2006 2:15:02 AM Central Daylight Time, dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net writes:
| Quote: | 2) Fuel line to the outlet of the mechanical pump. I bought Van's FWF kit
which contained an elbow fitting that threads into the outlet of the fuel
pump (also contains a tapped hole for the fuel sensor restrictor fitting).
Problem is if the fitting is installed with the elbow pointing down, it
points right in line with one of the motor mount tubes that supports the
nose gear mount, no way the fuel line to the servo will connect to it that
way!! Is there a 45 degree fitting or should I try to turn this one aft and
see if things work that way? |
>>>>
You might not want to replace that new fuel pump, but these pumps are available with the inlet/outlet locations reversed. Since mine was old anyway, I did the following at the suggestion of another builder:
http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5457
Perhaps the pump could be exchanged? Really slick workaround for carbureted nosedraggers...
Mark
[quote][b]
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From The PossumWorks... |
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Erich_Weaver(at)URSCorp.c
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:29 pm Post subject: fuel system PIAs |
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Dean:
I have a similar set up as yours, but on a 7A (Aerosport power IO-360B1B
(vertical induction, standard sump, AFP fuel injection with purge).
With respect to your question #1, I believe you are concerned with the fuel
supply line between the servo and purge valve, and NOT the fuel return line
that Dan has indicated in his reply, correct?
| Quote: | From memory, I believe I was able to make the tight turn under the
inter-cyclinder baffle with no kinking - I certainly dont remember any
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concerns about being too close to the exhaust. I hope to go to the hangar
this evening and I will double check and get back to you. Not sure if the
engine mount is different between the 6A and 7A. If so, that may explain
why you are having this difficulty while I did not.
Cant speak on the fuel pump issue - Its my understanding that people are
plumbing the AFP boost pump in series with the engine fuel pump. If thats
not the case, somebody get on my case in a hurry.
regards,
Erich Weaver
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Don
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:43 am Post subject: Re: Fuel System PIAs |
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You have a lot of questions here. First with out seeing your installation with the exhaust system installed I don’t know about this interference problem with the metered fuel hose. But if you e-mailed me a picture I’m sure we could resolve this problem easily. You might require a different hose than the one you have. So if you have additional questions on this give me a call.
The mechanical fuel pump outlet problem is a new one. Or at least no one has called me on this problem yet. There’s no problem with repositioning the fuel outlet fitting on the pump so the hose will not interfere with the engine mount. There should be enough hose to do that. There again, a special hose might be needed for your application.
There is no need to connect the boost pump and engine driven pump in parallel. This only creates more plumbing, connections and additional check valves in the system. Hook the boost pump and engine driven pump in series. There’s no problem with this installation and it’s done on most certified installations.
Keep the metered fuel lines short as possible. I have done installations where the hoses support the Flowscan unit. There’s no need to run the hoses back to the engine mount or fire wall then up to the purge valve inlet. We have done installations where the hose coming out of the fuel control is 3-4 inches long, attaches to the Flowscan unit and the hose goes directly to the purge valve inlet. The hoses support the Flowscan unit. We firesleeve the Flowscan unit after the hoses are connected. This has worked well so far. I have probably done this at least 6 times this way.
If you have specific questions about your Airflow Performance fuel injection system, please don’t hesitate to give us a call or e-mail.
Don
airflow2(at)bellsouth.net
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