Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Ignition switch question

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Ignition switch question

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

occom(at)ns.sympatico.ca
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:58 pm Post subject: Ignition switch question

On my Kitfox as wired the output from the rectifier  (582 with the original rect) is wired directly to the positive battery bus with  no cutoff. I want to add a cutoff to completely isolate the battery. I've seen  diagrams the connect the rectifier output to the accessory terminal of the  ignition switch and there's no doubt this would accomplish my goal but I have  some doubt the ACS switch can take it. It also has the drawback that you cannot  isolate the rectifier without turning the ignition to off. 

  

 Motorcycles are commonly wired exactly as my  aircraft is now, so perhaps this is what most people do. So, whats the popular  method? 

   [quote][b]

kirkhull(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:44 am Post subject: Ignition switch question

Don’t forget you will want to be able to isolate the entire elect system with out shutting off the engine.  When I first wired my fox with a Subaru installed , I set it up like a Cessna.  The problem was the Cessna uses Mags for the ignition so when I shut off the master on the fox it also shut off the ignition .  Not good.   

         

  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave G.

 Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 9:57 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Ignition switch question  

  

     

On my Kitfox as wired the output from the rectifier (582 with the original rect) is wired directly to the positive battery bus with no cutoff. I want to add a cutoff to completely isolate the battery. I've seen diagrams the connect the rectifier output to the accessory terminal of the ignition switch and there's no doubt this would accomplish my goal but I have some doubt the ACS switch can take it. It also has the drawback that you cannot isolate the rectifier without turning the ignition to off.   

    

   

    

Motorcycles are commonly wired exactly as my aircraft is now, so perhaps this is what most people do. So, whats the popular method?   

   	  Quote: 	
		     	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4 	  Quote: 	
		   	
5 	  Quote: 	
		   	
6 	  Quote: 	
		   	
7 	  Quote: 	
		   	
8 	  Quote: 	
		   	
9 	  Quote: 	
		  	
0 	  Quote: 	
		  	
1 	  Quote: 	
		  	
2 	  Quote: 	
		  	
3

       [quote][b]

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:51 am Post subject: Ignition switch question

This is how I hooked up a  master switch for my Kitfox. The relay is not a starter relay (it would  overheat) but the type of relay used in RVs for the extra battery.  Just  for the the way it looked my master switch is a long toggle with a red light in  it of the type they use on tractor trailers.  The light draws attention to  the switch which can be a good thing if things start to get real busy.  The  advantages of this hook up are; The high current wiring is all outside the  fire wall, the switch lead can be fused at the battery and the relay completely  disconnects all power form the battery when the master switch is open.   

  

 The disadvantage is the 5  or 6 ounces the relay weighs.

  

  

 

Noel [quote]   

   --

MastRelay.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

21.78 KB

Viewed:

263 Time(s)

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

bmwebb(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:10 am Post subject: Ignition switch question

Timely post, as I’ve just gone through the motions for this very thing. What you want is to isolate the battery, and isolate the alternator separately. This would require two solenoids. I got two continuous duty solenoids from a golf cart shop, and wired them up according to this:   

   

http://www.aeroelectric.com/DIY/DIY_Crowbar_OVP_F.pdf   

   

Figure Z-24 is what you’re after. Make sure you get CONTINUOUS DUTY solenoids, not starter contactors.  

   

Basically, the alternator goes through the solenoid to the loads, then to a solenoid to the battery. The alternator solenoid is closed via an alternator switch, and the battery solenoid is closed via the battery switch. My loads (GPS, RADIO, EFIS, etc.) are on a bus that is powered by an “avionics” master. It’s really quite simple, and affords me the opportunity to isolate whatever I need to if a problem occurs.  

   

Consider this on your motor: The starter should be  parallel to the alternator. That is, if you need to shut down the alternator, don’t kill the starter, too. It’s just in how you wire it up. Also, like the Geo, you have an ECU, no? Don’t kill the ECU power with the alternator switch. You need juice to keep the motor running, but just disconnect the alternator to keep the battery from frying.  

   

Good luck,  

Bradley  

         

  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave G.

 Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 10:57 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Ignition switch question  

  

     

On my Kitfox as wired the output from the rectifier (582 with the original rect) is wired directly to the positive battery bus with no cutoff. I want to add a cutoff to completely isolate the battery. I've seen diagrams the connect the rectifier output to the accessory terminal of the ignition switch and there's no doubt this would accomplish my goal but I have some doubt the ACS switch can take it. It also has the drawback that you cannot isolate the rectifier without turning the ignition to off.   

    

   

    

Motorcycles are commonly wired exactly as my aircraft is now, so perhaps this is what most people do. So, whats the popular method?   

   	  Quote: 	
		     	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4 	  Quote: 	
		   	
5 	  Quote: 	
		   	
6 	  Quote: 	
		   	
7 	  Quote: 	
		   	
8 	  Quote: 	
		   	
9 	  Quote: 	
		  	
0 	  Quote: 	
		  	
1 	  Quote: 	
		  	
2 	  Quote: 	
		  	
3

       [quote][b]

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:36 am Post subject: Ignition switch question

The Circuit diagram sent will  allow the 582 to run quite well with the master turned off.  that was a  consideration I took into mind when I installed the relay.  It is only a  battery master.

  

 Shutting off the ignition  switch will kill the engine.  It grounds out the mag  coils.

  

 The original builder of my 'Fox  put a 20A reset able breaker on the line between the charging circuit and the  battery.  20 A is plenty as the charging circuit is only rated at  16A.  Also because the exciter coils for the mags are separate from the  lighting coils ( charging circuitry ) the charging circuits can be manually  pulled if you notice an over voltage on the system .  the operating  voltage is 13.8V. so if the voltage goes over 15V its time to consider turning  off the lighting coils (pulling that breaker), landing at the next convenient  field and have the voltage regulator looked at.

  

 

Noel [quote]   

   --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

occom(at)ns.sympatico.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:57 am Post subject: Ignition switch question

---

bmwebb(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:53 am Post subject: Ignition switch question

Sorry, got my messages mixed. I thought you were running a Subie.  

Bradley  

         

  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bradley M Webb

 Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 11:10 AM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Ignition switch question  

  

   

Timely post, as I’ve just gone through the motions for this very thing. What you want is to isolate the battery, and isolate the alternator separately. This would require two solenoids. I got two continuous duty solenoids from a golf cart shop, and wired them up according to this:   

   

http://www.aeroelectric.com/DIY/DIY_Crowbar_OVP_F.pdf   

   

Figure Z-24 is what you’re after. Make sure you get CONTINUOUS DUTY solenoids, not starter contactors.  

   

Basically, the alternator goes through the solenoid to the loads, then to a solenoid to the battery. The alternator solenoid is closed via an alternator switch, and the battery solenoid is closed via the battery switch. My loads (GPS, RADIO, EFIS, etc.) are on a bus that is powered by an “avionics” master. It’s really quite simple, and affords me the opportunity to isolate whatever I need to if a problem occurs.  

   

Consider this on your motor: The starter should be  parallel to the alternator. That is, if you need to shut down the alternator, don’t kill the starter, too. It’s just in how you wire it up. Also, like the Geo, you have an ECU, no? Don’t kill the ECU power with the alternator switch. You need juice to keep the motor running, but just disconnect the alternator to keep the battery from frying.  

   

Good luck,  

Bradley  

         

  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave G.

 Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 10:57 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Ignition switch question  

  

     

On my Kitfox as wired the output from the rectifier (582 with the original rect) is wired directly to the positive battery bus with no cutoff. I want to add a cutoff to completely isolate the battery. I've seen diagrams the connect the rectifier output to the accessory terminal of the ignition switch and there's no doubt this would accomplish my goal but I have some doubt the ACS switch can take it. It also has the drawback that you cannot isolate the rectifier without turning the ignition to off.   

    

   

    

Motorcycles are commonly wired exactly as my aircraft is now, so perhaps this is what most people do. So, whats the popular method?   

   	  Quote: 	
		     	
[/b] 	  Quote: 	
		  [b] 	
[/b] 	  Quote: 	
		  [b] 	
[/b] 	  Quote: 	
		  [b] 	
[/b][b]

        [quote][b]

occom(at)ns.sympatico.ca
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:02 pm Post subject: Ignition switch question

Hi Noel, after evaluating this and a few other  emails I've decided that since I don't want to recut the panel for the Cessna  dual switch I'll simply add another fuse and a second master switch. It's the  simplest solution. So, I have a master switch for the rectifier to Pos bus and a  master for battery to Pos bus. I've already got a spare switch position and a  spare fuse position. 

 [quote]   ---

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:39 pm Post subject: Ignition switch question

A simple solution is to use a  heavy 60-80A switch in the panel.....but..... then you have to bring high  current through the fire wall.  

  

  

 

Noel [quote]   

   --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

occom(at)ns.sympatico.ca
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:12 pm Post subject: Ignition switch question

True enough. The high current side of starter  solenoid will remain live and on the far side of the firewall. None of the other  systems will require as much amperage. 

 [quote]   ---

dosmythe(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:30 pm Post subject: Ignition switch question

I guess there are probably a million different ways  to wire up a Kitfox.  One thing I did do as a precaution in case the master  sol fails in flight was to run a 12 ga. fused wire from the battery side of the  sol to the main 12 volt buss.  This line goes to a hidden "emer" switch so  it can be activated just in case that sol fails.  I can get all electric  power back to the main buss from the battery including the charging  circuit.  One thing I can't do is "HIT" the engine starter while  bypassed.  This would pop the breaker or melt the 12 ga wire.  BTW, I  had to use this circuit recently.

  

 Don Smythe

 [quote]   ---

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:41 pm Post subject: Ignition switch question

I'm much luckier than that ...  the only instrument that requires the 12V is my turn coordinator.  Radios  are on internal battery, as is the GPS.  Nav lights and strobes are  aux.  and I haven't had a smoke in years.  The only thing I'd miss  would be the starter in case I'd need a restart.

  

  

 

Noel [quote]   

   --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

7suds(at)Chartermi.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:22 pm Post subject: Ignition switch question

Guys,

 I have not followed this thread  completely but if you are looking for alternatives to panel wiring take a look  at the Hot Box by Kuntzleman Electronics,  Inc.

  

 http://www.kestrobes.com/The_HOT_BOX_brochure.html

 

 

 [quote]   ---

clemwehner(at)sbcglobal.n
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:22 pm Post subject: Ignition switch question

Does  anyone in our group have experience with the Hot Box in a kitfox? Any negatives?  Does it limit wiring alternatives that might be needed in a  kitfox?

  

 I'm  thinking about one just to simplify the wiring job.

  

 Clem

 Lawton, OK

 KF  IV-912

 [quote]   

   --

morid(at)northland.lib.mi
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:15 pm Post subject: Ignition switch question

The only thing I can think of is that it being a  solid state unit, if you lose the box you lose whatever it's  controlling.

 Deke

  

 [quote]   ---

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum