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nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:11 pm Post subject: gmcjetpilot

At 09:51 AM 9/5/2006 -0700, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   >From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" 

 <<mailto:nuckollsr(at)cox.net>nuckollsr(at)cox.net>

 >Subject: Re: Logic and experience  (was about

 >alternators)

 >

 >At 11:36 AM 9/1/2006 -0700, you wrote:



 >    <snip>

 >  And I might have a lifetime of picking apples but

 >  that doesn't make me an apple horticulturist. I've

 >  spent 50 years getting my hands dirty, figuring out

 >  how things work, designing new products and doing

 >  my best to keep customers happy, but that doesn't

 >  make me a human factors expert either.

 >  I've never asked you to prove anything, only offer logical

 >  foundation for your assertions . . . be a teacher

 >  for the ideas you hold dear.

I am not sure what you mean?


	


    If you don't know what I mean, where do I begin?



    For years on this List you've demonstrated no

    ability/willingness to discuss simple-ideas based

    on the physics or their assemblage into useful

    systems that meet customer's design goals.



    You place great value in the advertising hype for

    your favorite products while demonstrating no first-

    hand knowledge of the product's inner workings nor

    willingness or even curiosity to find out.



    As far as I know, you're retired, have no customers, and

    no commitments to perform for anyone. This leaves plenty of

    time to dance around poking 'sticks' into folk's cages

    while hiding behind a pseudonym dressed up with lots

    of alphabet soup poured over your signature line.



    I don't rely on an alphabet-soup-sauce to support

    my assertions. I have to demonstrate my performance in

    a day-time job, in a night-time job and in service to my

    customers. I have to accept consequences for my actions

    in terms of tangible gains and losses. The only thing

    you risk is flaming e-mails and perhaps censure.



    I don't use the word "cage" in a pejorative sense. My

    cage is a space I choose to occupy that sets limits

    on my behavior. I aspire to the use of words that

    inform and sometimes entertain. I avoid use of words

    intended to persuade and certainly words intended to

    hurt. I'm bound my the limits of my 'cage' from attacking

    you or your property. I value my honor and the honorable

    behavior of others when they go out of their way

    to defend the person and property of others.



    You have demonstrated no similar bounds. Even when

    I take pains to acknowledge where we're in agreement,

    you can still find a still longer stick to poke

    with.



    The fact that you totally missed the significant points in

    my attempts at discussion with Mr. Richter is

    ample demonstration of your existence in an parallel

    universe. Mr. Richter attacked me sir but would not

    cite a single paragraph in the 'Connection wherein

    my words lead individuals to do "atrocious work" on

    their airplanes. Many of the assertions in his document

    were wrong . . . not alternate opinions but

    simply wrong. But when questioned for amplification,

    he would not focus on nor answer a single question.

    Whatever useful information his document contained

    was awash in error and unsupportable assertions.



    Greg's unwillingness/inability to earn respect as a

    teacher while disseminating a volume of bad data has

    earned him permanent enshrinement on my website.

    Like many of history's infamous documents, Greg's

    work is worthy of preservation so as to be available to

    serious students of the matters it purports to illuminate.



    You willingly defer to the forces of regulation and certification

    when it suits your argument but ridicule my goal of adapting

    the automotive IR alternator into fold of traditional

    (and certified) electrical systems.



    When I'm skeptical of traditional regulatory and bureaucratic

    management, you find fault in my irreverence but in the

    next paragraph, you poke at me for adhering to some

    outdated notions of how an alternator should behave in

    airplanes - "let 'er run just like they do in cars, no

    problem."



    You've taken me to task for being critical of a "dark-n-

    stormy-night" story wherein a respected test pilot suffered

    the indignities, injury and expense of an off field landing

    while citing alternator failure as root cause. Subsequent

    conversation with him confirmed loss of stator winding as

    cause of the alternator failure. Respected test pilot or not, he

    was flying an electrically dependent engine wherein

    loss of the alternator was all it took to bring him down.



    I cannot speak to his skills as pilot but I remain skeptical

    of his system design skills or the skills of his

    support staff. But you made it clear that I shouldn't

    be "attacking" someone's abilities - especially one so

    respected - and besides, I shouldn't be piling more

    indignities on his already expensive adventure. The fact

    that his engine quit for the reasons cited is ample

    foundation for my skepticism.



    If dark-n-stormy-night stories are to have any real value,

    it's in the dissection and discovery and prevention of

    future of root causes - and even the most respected

    individuals can stub their toe. Come to think of it,

    perhaps it was Paul who raked me on this one . . . if

    so, please accept my apologies for the attribution error.



    In any case, you're either incapable of focusing on an issue

    or just having too much fun poking through the boundaries

    of my limits. Just the fact that you defend Greg

    Richter's document is an overwhelming demonstration of

    your dearth of understanding. Your words on the List

    are already enshrined in Matronics archives so that

    others may research and assess value as they see fit.



    Meanwhile, I have many rewarding ways to spend my

    time and discussing anything with you is not one of them.

    To allow your masquerade to continue is a compromise that

    will only distract a quest for the best we know how to do.

    It's time to call a halt to this unproductive taxation

    on my time and everyone else's patience.



    I will ask you too sir to vacate the AeroElectric List.



    Bob . . .

robh(at)hyperion-ef.us
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:30 pm Post subject: gmcjetpilot

I second Bob's motion; now let's vote on it.

Best regards,



Rob Housman

A070

Airframe complete

Irvine, CA



--

raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:48 pm Post subject: gmcjetpilot

Aye, in favor of Bob's motion.



Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN.



--

dbaleshta(at)tru.ca
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:37 pm Post subject: gmcjetpilot

Aye

kayce33(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:23 pm Post subject: gmcjetpilot

Bravo, another ego trip aborted.

Harold

---

tonybabb(at)alejandra.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:41 pm Post subject: gmcjetpilot

I always thought gmcjetpilot was a pseudonym used by Paul M. Hard to believe

there are two of them out there.!!! If anyone's interested I'd vote Aye -

Aye.  



--

bicyclop(at)pacbell.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:44 pm Post subject: gmcjetpilot

Aye. 



You should see the off list haranguing I got from him in reply to my on

list dark and stormy night story. He attacked Bob in it repeatedly while

assuring me that he likes Bob and his ideas. He called Bob (among other

things) a hypocrite and an asshole and extorted me not to be a

"Dittohead". It is many pages long and it made me slightly ill to read

it.



I'm setting my spam filter for him. I've seen enough, again.



Pax,



Ed Holyoke



--

ktlkrn(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:57 am Post subject: gmcjetpilot

I, along with many others have had significant  backline discussions with "George."

  

 Like Ed, his reply to me was filled with name  calling and degrading statements. Doug reports that he has had dozens of  complaints about him and has given him fair warnings. The most recent was on the  RV10 section of the Forums. Of course, George's knowledge of the RV10 was far  greater than those actually involved.

  

 He is supposedely an airline pilot which absolutely  scares the hell out of me. So much so that on the occasional airline flights I  do take I ask who the pilot is. If it were George I would not take the flight.  I'm confident that his "No Fly" list is so long that the only people that will  fly with him are the newest guys.If I knew which airline he flew for I would  forward my series of correspondence to their Chief Pilot and HR manager for  evaluation. This guy is clearly not all there.

  

 Another interesting point, who knows this guy? I've  never heard of anyone who has been to his house to visit his alleged project,  saw him at a fly in or otherwise had any contect with him other than on an email  list. Did anyone see him at Oshkosh? He certainly didn't say anything about  Oshkosh. Certainly, a person of his stature and iconish self image, wouldn't  miss something as significant as Oshkosh. Then he could approach all of these  companies he blasts in person. I can hear it now, "Security, Exhibit hall C,  Security, Exhibit hall C."

  

 He needs to go away.

  

 Darwin N. Barrie

 Chandler AZ

   [quote][b]

Eric M. Jones

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 565
Location: Massachusetts

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:07 am Post subject: Re: gmcjetpilot, etc.

Count me as one who thinks that banning people from the list discloses a failure of process. I think there is a clash of styles that destroys the exchange of ideas here. Too bad.



My personal style is to state what I believe, and why; and then go away. Arrogance comes quite naturally to me. After a while what I believed is usually accepted as obvious--I get no credit for it--and that is just fine.  I rarely read these bazing disagreements. My Attention Deficit Disorder coupled with Time Management skills I think....



Bob--I might have done the same thing. But I think I would have tried to avoid having to do it much harder.  These are damned smart guys.



"The problem with the world is that only the intelligent people want to be

smarter, and only the good people want to improve."

            - E. Stobblehouse

_________________
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net

kayce33(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:45 am Post subject: gmcjetpilot

My problem with gmc is that he wastes time, both Bobs and everyone else who 

subscribes. I for one have had enough on picking flyspecks out of pepper.

Harold

---

lists(at)stevet.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:27 pm Post subject: gmcjetpilot

Smart is not enough.  You can have the best idea or knowledge base in  

the world, but if you cannot communicate, it is worthless.  There are  

plenty of "damned smart guys" on the list who can communicate.  I'll  

listen to them.



Best Regards,



Steve Thomas

SteveT.Net

805-569-0336 Office

________________________________________________________________________



On Sep 6, 2006, at 11:07 AM, Eric M. Jones wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   These are damned smart guys.

Jerry Cochran

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 111
Location: Wilsonville, OR

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:43 am Post subject: gmcjetpilot

I don't often post to this fine list but do monitor it daily and have  learned much from Bob and others. The whole debate/interchange/scuffle between  gmcjet and Bob sometimes are fascinating, once in awhile educational and  sometimes just worthy of the delete key. However, at one point a few months ago,  I had a need for advice which I posted here, and got useful info from Bob and  others. To my surprise however, George emailed me directly and spent lots of  time very graciously leading me by the hand , developing and sending schematics,  explanations, etc. He came across as very caring and helpful. 

  

 Just wanted you all to know there is another side to this guy, thas'  all...

  

 One amazing thing of note is the similarity in styles of argument and  outcomes between George and Paul Messinger. 

  

 My .02 as usual,

 Jerry Cochran



  [quote][b]

nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:29 am Post subject: gmcjetpilot

At 12:43 PM 9/7/2006 -0400, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  I don't often post to this fine list but do monitor it daily and have 

learned much from Bob and others. The whole debate/interchange/scuffle 

between gmcjet and Bob sometimes are fascinating, once in awhile 

educational and sometimes just worthy of the delete key. However, at one 

point a few months ago, I had a need for advice which I posted here, and 

got useful info from Bob and others. To my surprise however, George 

emailed me directly and spent lots of time very graciously leading me by 

the hand , developing and sending schematics, explanations, etc. He came 

across as very caring and helpful.



Just wanted you all to know there is another side to this guy, thas' all...



One amazing thing of note is the similarity in styles of argument and 

outcomes between George and Paul Messinger.


	


   Thank you for sharing this Jerry. I appreciate

   the existence of some non-negative data in what has

   been mostly troubling and tiresome experience . . .



   Bob . . .

mprather(at)spro.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:08 am Post subject: gmcjetpilot

I believe that a person's positive activities can't always make up for

their negative ones..  One aw-shucks can wipe out a whole bunch of

attaboys.  This is so because it's almost always much easier to poison a

good process than it is to recover one that's already tainted.

Regards,



Matt-



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>



 At 12:43 PM 9/7/2006 -0400, you wrote:



>I don't often post to this fine list but do monitor it daily and have

>learned much from Bob and others. The whole debate/interchange/scuffle

>between gmcjet and Bob sometimes are fascinating, once in awhile

>educational and sometimes just worthy of the delete key. However, at one

>point a few months ago, I had a need for advice which I posted here, and

>got useful info from Bob and others. To my surprise however, George

>emailed me directly and spent lots of time very graciously leading me by

>the hand , developing and sending schematics, explanations, etc. He came

>across as very caring and helpful.

>

>Just wanted you all to know there is another side to this guy, thas'

> all...

>

>One amazing thing of note is the similarity in styles of argument and

>outcomes between George and Paul Messinger.



    Thank you for sharing this Jerry. I appreciate

    the existence of some non-negative data in what has

    been mostly troubling and tiresome experience . . .



    Bob . . .

chaztuna(at)adelphia.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:13 am Post subject: gmcjetpilot

---- "Robert L. Nuckolls wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 At 12:43 PM 9/7/2006 -0400, you wrote:

 

 >I don't often post to this fine list but do monitor it daily and have 

 >learned much from Bob and others. The whole debate/interchange/scuffle 

 >between gmcjet and Bob sometimes are fascinating, once in awhile 

 >educational and sometimes just worthy of the delete key. However, at one 

 >point a few months ago, I had a need for advice which I posted here, and 

 >got useful info from Bob and others. To my surprise however, George 

 >emailed me directly and spent lots of time very graciously leading me by 

 >the hand , developing and sending schematics, explanations, etc. He came 

 >across as very caring and helpful.

 >

 >Just wanted you all to know there is another side to this guy, thas' all...

 >

 >One amazing thing of note is the similarity in styles of argument and 

 >outcomes between George and Paul Messinger.

 

    Thank you for sharing this Jerry. I appreciate

    the existence of some non-negative data in what has

    been mostly troubling and tiresome experience . . .

 

    Bob . . .


	


Bob,

 I have found George to be very helpful as well. On subjects electrical and otherwise. He has made great efforts to educate me to the whys and hows of various aviation related items. He recently outlined for me why certain brands of aircraft parts are superior to other brands. All done in a cheerful matter.

Charlie Kuss

cjensen(at)dts9000.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:08 pm Post subject: gmcjetpilot

Jerry,

  

 Without a doubt, George has redeeming  attributes, though he does his best to hide them.  There are only two  problems with his postings--the message and the messinger...or is that  Messinger?  I've noticed the same similarity between George and Paul  (though I was assured off line one time, by Joe Smith, that they were two  different persons).  Perhaps its just one of those 'kindred soul things',  but still makes me wonder--email addresses and names are  cheap.

  

 Chuck Jensen 

 Do Not Archive

  

 

 Jerry  Cochran wrote... 

I don't often post to this fine list but do monitor it daily  and have learned much from Bob and others. The whole debate/interchange/scuffle  between gmcjet and Bob sometimes are fascinating, once in awhile  educational and sometimes just worthy of the delete key. However, at one point a  few months ago, I had a need for advice which I posted here, and got useful info  from Bob and others. To my surprise however, George emailed me directly and  spent lots of time very graciously leading me by the hand , developing and  sending schematics, explanations, etc. He came across as very caring and  helpful.   

 Just wanted you all to know  there is another side to this guy, thas' all...  

 One amazing thing of note  is the similarity in styles of argument and outcomes between George and Paul  Messinger.   [quote][b]

sean(at)stephensville.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:21 pm Post subject: gmcjetpilot

chaztuna(at)adelphia.net wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Bob,

  I have found George to be very helpful as well. On subjects electrical and otherwise. He has made great efforts to educate me to the whys and hows of various aviation related items. He recently outlined for me why certain brands of aircraft parts are superior to other brands. All done in a cheerful matter.

 Charlie Kuss

   

I feel like the suckerfish swimming along the bottom of the creek that 
	


spots a piece of cheese on the end of a string, having no idea that 

cheese on the end of a string has no business being in a creek.



But I'll bite...



Why are certain brands of aircraft parts superior to other brands?  Care 

to elaborate?



-Sean

Bruce(at)glasair.org
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:40 pm Post subject: gmcjetpilot

Geeze, if someone's posting piss you off,  just hit the delete key. I'm sure there's lots of readers who hit the delete key  on mine.

  

  

 

Bruce

www.glasair.org

   [quote]   

   --

aaaron(at)tvp.com.au
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:18 pm Post subject: gmcjetpilot

I don't want to beat this thing to death but I've also had several

off-line email exchanges with George that have been very helpful and

he's been very gracious with his time in helping me out.  I'm not

arguing with the will of the group or Bob here, just wanting people to

realise that he's not all that bad .....



Allan

Mark Sletten

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 43
Location: St. Jacob, IL (Near St. Louis, MO)

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:29 am Post subject: gmcjetpilot

Both Paul and GMCJetpilot (which I still find aggravating that he's

unwilling to sign his posts with his name...) are like the neighborhood

delinquents.



Sure, every once in a while they go out of their way to help someone --

they'll mow the widow's lawn, or help the neighbor who's husband is out of

town shovel the drive, but they probably only do it because their Mom's told

them to...



Most of the time, though, they run around pulling chains and depositing

flaming bags of (verbal) dog feces on our neighborhood porches leaving

others to stomp out the flames and clean up the mess. After awhile, the

occasional lawn mowing or drive shoveling doesn't make up for the hassle and

annoyance -- you're just glad when they grow up and move away. Kids will be

kids, but you always know it's temporary...



Just deleting the rants is a great solution -- for me. I've been reading

this list for several years and it's easy for me to spot the good, the bad

and the ugly. But the new guy/gals on the list can't. As the moderator of a

list dedicated to the exchange of simple ideas based on logic and

observation, Bob feels he has moral OBLIGATION to respond to the crap so new

guys aren't lost in the wilderness of circular arguments about... well...

crap, mostly.



I, for one, have seen Bob stomp on enough flaming bags. And I don't see Paul

or GMCJetpilot (sigh!) growing up anytime soon. I'm glad to see Bob able to

devote more of his valuable time to what he does best, investigate, learn

and teach.



Mark Sletten

Legacy FG N828LM

http://www.legacyfgbuilder.com

_________________
Mark Sletten
Legacy FG N828LM
http://www.legacyfgbuilder.com

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