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Question on oil

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henrysfork1(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 6:09 am Post subject: Question on oil

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Have been considering a change in oil. The engine is a four stroke air  cooled and manufacturer suggests using an Automotive type engine oil  meeting SAE SE grade or above. It also goes on to say MIL-L-46152B Spec. is  recommended??? I have been using Aero Shell 15W-50 since the engine was new.  Winter is coming and the Aero Shell is hard to turn the engine in the cold. That  is the reason I am considering the change. I have been looking at the  synthetics. I would very much appreciate your thoughts on this matter.

  

 Thanks

  

 Dee Young

 N345DY Model II

  

  

 Do not archive.



   [quote][b]

pwmac(at)sisna.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:18 am Post subject: Question on oil

What kind of engine?

15w50 is very heavy duty oil like I use in my diesel truck.

15w50 is used in air cooled airplane engines that run hot and have 

significant oil thinning at the high temps.

What are your oil temps at the high end for a worst case senerio?

  How does your oil temp look under the high temp situation?

Do you have a sealed RG battery?



In any event synthetic is better for high temps and cold cranking but 

its use depends on the fuel you are using and how much you want to 

spend for more frequent changes of the pricey oil.

Paul

=================



At 08:08 AM 9/10/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Have been considering a change in oil. The engine is a four stroke 

air cooled and manufacturer suggests using an Automotive type engine 

oil meeting SAE SE grade or above. It also goes on to say 

MIL-L-46152B Spec. is recommended??? I have been using Aero Shell 

15W-50 since the engine was new. Winter is coming and the Aero Shell 

is hard to turn the engine in the cold. That is the reason I am 

considering the change. I have been looking at the synthetics. I 

would very much appreciate your thoughts on this matter.



Thanks



Dee Young

N345DY Model II

Do not archive.

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:55 am Post subject: Question on oil

Dee,



The value in a full synthetic is the higher temps they can tolerate, the hit 

is their inability to keep the lead residues in suspension.  If you fly 

strictly with car gas, the synthetic should be fine.  If you occasionally 

use 100LL then you might want to avoid synthetics.  This from the Rotax oil 

recommendation bulletin.  The Rotax 912 series engines use the same oil in 

the engine as well as the gear box so they recommend a motorcycle engine oil 

with the gear additive.  If your engine is similar, you might want to check 

the Rotax owners association website for info.



Lowell

---

henrysfork1(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:37 am Post subject: Question on oil

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  I burn 100LL all the time so that takes car of the synthetic idea. Thanks  for the response Lowell

  

 Dee

  

 Do Not Archiv

 [quote]   ---

kr2(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:41 am Post subject: Question on oil

Hi Dee,I have just switched to a fully synthetic oil and I also fly using 100LL,I was so impressed with what I had heard from a friend of mine that I thought I would try it,today will be the first flight with the new synthetic oil..so I will keep you posted on the results.I am using mobil 1, 10w40

 in my VW mosler engine.

  

 

  

 [quote] ---

kr2(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:46 am Post subject: Question on oil

Lowel what do you think about running fully synthetic oil in an air cooled

VW engine using 100LL,........I hope this is ok because I am fly this

morning to fuel up again with 100LL,This will be the first flight using

synthetic oil..............

 	  Quote: 	
		   [Original Message]

 From: Lowell Fitt <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net>

 To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>

 Date: 9/10/2006 12:08:14 PM

 Subject: Re: Question on oil



 



 Dee,



 The value in a full synthetic is the higher temps they can tolerate, the

hit 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   is their inability to keep the lead residues in suspension.  If you fly 

 strictly with car gas, the synthetic should be fine.  If you occasionally 

 use 100LL then you might want to avoid synthetics.  This from the Rotax

oil 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   recommendation bulletin.  The Rotax 912 series engines use the same oil

in 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   the engine as well as the gear box so they recommend a motorcycle engine

oil 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   with the gear additive.  If your engine is similar, you might want to

check 
	


[quote] the Rotax owners association website for info.



 Lowell

 ---

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:25 am Post subject: Question on oil

Mark,



All I know about this subject is from the Rotax bulletin on preferred oils 

and the Rotax seminars.



Synthetics are recommended by them for unleaded fuels only.  When using 

occasional leaded fuels they recommend a synthetic blend or full mineral if 

using 100LL.



If you would like to read their bulletin on this, follow the links below to 

the numbered bulletin.  When I change oil, I wipe down the oil tank with a 

papertowl and without fail, if I have been using 100LL as in a long cross 

country, I get a pasty residue from the tank.  It is light gray colored. 

With the exception of the gear additive recommended by Rotax because the 

engine oil also lubricates the gear box, I am comfortable with their general 

recommendations for all four stroke engine types.



It would be good of course to have other data from other engine types to 

eliminate the need to extrapolate.

http://www.rotax-owner.com/



SERVICE DOCUMENT RETRIEVAL SYSTEM



SI-18-1997    (2004)



SI-912-016    (2006)



Lowell

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pwmac(at)sisna.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:57 am Post subject: Question on oil

Mark,

  The issue with Full syn is sludge buildup with the leaded gas. The 

prudent thing to do is to change the oil frequently and open the 

valve covers at each oil change and look for sludge. Also dissect 

your oil filter for the same examination. All this was discovered by 

Rotax for their 9 series 4 stroke engines. They recommend a part syn 

oil with 100LL

Regards, Paul

================

At 04:40 AM 9/15/2006, you wrote:

[quote]Hi Dee,I have just switched to a fully synthetic oil and I also fly 

using 100LL,I was so impressed with what I had heard from a friend 

of mine that I thought I would try it,today will be the first flight 

with the new synthetic oil..so I will keep you posted on the 

results.I am using mobil 1, 10w40

in my VW mosler engine.

---

pwmac(at)sisna.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:10 am Post subject: Question on oil

I have been querying the racer guys who use heavily leaded gas (much 

more lead than 100LL) with full synthetic. They all complain about 

the lead deposits but just change the oil every race. Then when the 

engine need freshening up the get all the sludge out of the pan and 

valve covers. The sludge is significant for the low budget guys since 

they go longer between rebuilds. I have seen these the inside of 

these long term engines and the sludge is unbelievable. The big buck 

guys don't give a hoot and rebuild for every race. Most of the racers 

still use the full syn for the better lube and high temp properties.

Conclusion  Rotax is right on.



BTW Amsoil sells a part syn engine oil. So does Penzoil and 

Valvoline. Probably a all are better than Mobile1 IMO. I hope this helps

Regards, Paul

====================

At 08:25 AM 9/15/2006, you wrote:

[quote]Mark,



All I know about this subject is from the Rotax bulletin on 

preferred oils and the Rotax seminars.



Synthetics are recommended by them for unleaded fuels only.  When 

using occasional leaded fuels they recommend a synthetic blend or 

full mineral if using 100LL.



If you would like to read their bulletin on this, follow the links 

below to the numbered bulletin.  When I change oil, I wipe down the 

oil tank with a papertowl and without fail, if I have been using 

100LL as in a long cross country, I get a pasty residue from the 

tank.  It is light gray colored. With the exception of the gear 

additive recommended by Rotax because the engine oil also lubricates 

the gear box, I am comfortable with their general recommendations 

for all four stroke engine types.



It would be good of course to have other data from other engine 

types to eliminate the need to extrapolate.

http://www.rotax-owner.com/



SERVICE DOCUMENT RETRIEVAL SYSTEM



SI-18-1997    (2004)



SI-912-016    (2006)



Lowell

---

john(at)leptron.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:56 am Post subject: Question on oil

Group,

The place the sludge show up in a 912 is the oil cooler. I power flush my

oil filter on every change (35 hours) and use Honda motorcycle Simi

synthetic oil. I can see the lead as it is flushed out of the cooler. I

would never use full synthetic with av fuel.



John Oakley



--

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:13 am Post subject: Question on oil

John,  thanks for the post.  I have been observing a slight increase in oil 

temps over the past year or so.  This might be the reason.  Another is that 

I got tired of replacing the temp sending unit from Westach every six months 

or so and built my own - in my opinion, they are junk.  I did a cursory hot 

water test and found it close, but should do it again for a more positive 

check. I may be reading high, but running normally.



Lowell

---

pwmac(at)sisna.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:51 am Post subject: Question on oil

John,

Very good point The oil cooler it the prime place for the lead 

deposits and sludge. However the racers experience indicates the most 

sludge inside the valve covers and sump.

Paul

============



At 09:55 AM 9/15/2006, you wrote:

[quote]



Group,

The place the sludge show up in a 912 is the oil cooler. I power flush my

oil filter on every change (35 hours) and use Honda motorcycle Simi

synthetic oil. I can see the lead as it is flushed out of the cooler. I

would never use full synthetic with av fuel.



John Oakley



--

john(at)leptron.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:28 pm Post subject: Question on oil

Lowell, 

The sludge in the oil cooler is a real thing. We did testing and like I said

you can see it pour out under pressure. I usually leave pressure on until I

see clear oil. After changing oil and filling up, I ad 10lbs of pressure to

the oil tank overflow, then pull the ball pressure relief and spring. I

reinstall the ball and spring while the oil is flowing, this gets rid of the

air bubbles that rotax has warned about. You may have to add some vibration

to the cooler to loosen up sludge. I also got tired of the Wasatch items and

replaced all with the unit from GRT. 



John Oakley



--

john(at)leptron.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:31 pm Post subject: Question on oil

Paul,

I have never seen sludge in the valve covers on the rotax, as I have in my

racing days. It may be due to the fact there ore not pockets to settle out

in. the sump is a great settle out spot as designed by the engineers....

John Oakley



--

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