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charging system problems

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collinc(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:16 am Post subject: charging system problems

Hi,

  

 I am new to this list, but I am seeking some help  with a charging system problem on my "Bearhawk".  

 Let me try to describe the problem as best I  can.  I am using a Van's 35 amp alt.  a VR-371 voltage/over-voltage  protector, and a Electronics International (VA-1) guage installed in the alt  lead. Also using a Odyssey 680 battery.

  

 The problem is this:  Everything seems to work  just fine until maybe 10-15 minutes into the flight when the discharge light on  the VA-1 comes on.  I can reset the system by recyling the field breaker  and everything goes back to normal--charging again.  This will last maybe  another 10-15 minutes and the whole process repeats itself.  I have checked  all my conections, replaced the battery, and now am beginning to suspect the  alternator or even the regulator.  But I need some advice before I go  replacing stuff that doesn't need replacing. (been there done that  before!)

  

 Any advice would be appreciated,

  

 Collin

    [quote][b]

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nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:07 am Post subject: charging system problems

At 07:14 AM 9/19/2006 -0500, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Hi,



I am new to this list, but I am seeking some help with a charging system 

problem on my "Bearhawk".

Let me try to describe the problem as best I can.  I am using a Van's 35 

amp alt.  a VR-371 voltage/over-voltage protector, and a Electronics 

International (VA-1) guage installed in the alt lead. Also using a Odyssey 

680 battery.



The problem is this:  Everything seems to work just fine until maybe 10-15 

minutes into the flight when the discharge light on the VA-1 comes on.  I 

can reset the system by recyling the field breaker and everything goes 

back to normal--charging again.  This will last maybe another 10-15 

minutes and the whole process repeats itself.  I have checked all my 

conections, replaced the battery, and now am beginning to suspect the 

alternator or even the regulator.  But I need some advice before I go 

replacing stuff that doesn't need replacing. (been there done that before!)


	


    If your system needs "reset", then the symptoms suggest

    that the OV protection system in your voltage regulator

    is being tripped. This becomes a problem of deducing whether

    a real OV condition existed -or- the circuit is being nuisance

    tripped.



    It's a rational component of troubleshooting to suspect

    any component. But it's much better to do measurements

    to determine the physics behind the difficulty before embarking

    on a swaptronics excursion where one can only hope to pick

    the right component . . . with the attendant risk that NONE

    of the components replaced will fix the problem.



    What are your bus voltages when the system is operating

    normally?  I'm curious as to how you integrated the VR-371

    voltage regulator with a Van's alterantor. I was under the

    impression that Van's sold only internally regulated machines.

    Let's do the detective work before you pull out any hardware.



    Bob . . .

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FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:29 am Post subject: charging system problems

In a message dated 9/19/06 8:26:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 

collinc(at)alltel.net writes:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi,

  

  I am new to this list, but I am seeking some help with a charging system 

 problem on my "Bearhawk".  

  Let me try to describe the problem as best I can.  I am using a Van's 35 

amp 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   alt.  a VR-371 voltage/over-voltage protector, and a Electronics 

 International (VA-1) guage installed in the alt lead. Also using a Odyssey 

 680 battery.

  

  The problem is this:  Everything seems to work just fine until maybe 10-15 

 minutes into the flight when the discharge light on the VA-1 comes on.  I 

can 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   reset the system by recyling the field breaker and everything goes back to 

 normal--charging again.  This will last maybe another 10-15 minutes and the 

 whole process repeats itself.  I have checked all my conections, replaced 

the 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   battery, and now am beginning to suspect the alternator or even the 

regulator.
	


 	  Quote: 	
		     But I need some advice before I go replacing stuff that doesn't need 

 replacing. (been there done that before!)

  

  Any advice would be appreciated,

  

  Collin

=========================
	


Collin:



Keeping things simple ... You did not mention what plane the alternator is in?



But, from your explanation since TIME is function of failure I would also 

surmise that TEMPERATURE is a function of failure.

Do you have a cooling tube blowing on the alternator?  I have found on two 

RV-6's with the SAME alternator that COOLING is a MUST!  I installed a smooth 

flowing cooling tube and have NOT seen the tripping problem in years.  Also, a 

bit of cool air blowing on the front bearing goes a long way to longevity of 

the alternator.



Now, after you cool things off, then start electron chasing.



Barry

"Chop'd Liver"



"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third 

time." 

Yamashiada

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collin

Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 6

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: charging system problems

The Van's 35 amp alt requires a regulator. (at least according to their website:



ES 14184 W/O FAN: A small lightweight alternator that develops a maximum of 35 amperes (12 volt DC) and is usually enough for most RV's. This unit requires the use of an external voltage regulator.



I don't know what the amp load is on the bus bar.  I will try to check on my next flight.  I am still in the test phase of a new aircraft and there are a lot ot things to pay attention to.



Collin

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nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:34 pm Post subject: charging system problems

At 07:14 AM 9/19/2006 -0500, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Hi,



I am new to this list, but I am seeking some help with a charging system 

problem on my "Bearhawk".

Let me try to describe the problem as best I can.  I am using a Van's 35 

amp alt.  a VR-371 voltage/over-voltage protector, and a Electronics 

International (VA-1) guage installed in the alt lead. Also using a Odyssey 

680 battery.



The problem is this:  Everything seems to work just fine until maybe 10-15 

minutes into the flight when the discharge light on the VA-1 comes on.  I 

can reset the system by recyling the field breaker and everything goes 

back to normal--charging again.  This will last maybe another 10-15 

minutes and the whole process repeats itself.  I have checked all my 

conections, replaced the battery, and now am beginning to suspect the 

alternator or even the regulator.  But I need some advice before I go 

replacing stuff that doesn't need replacing. (been there done that before!)



Any advice would be appreciated,


	


    Okay. Understand that the alternator you have is

    externally regulated. I wasn't aware that Van's

    was offering one. I acquired the envelope and spec

    drawing for the voltage regulator. You can get a

    copy at:



http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Regulators/Electrosystems/VR371.pdf



    I'm disappointed that the data sheet doesn't tell

    us anything useful about the OV protection features.

    They've cited DO-160C, Section 16, Category B

    which makes no sense at all. DO-160 does not apply

    to the generation and control of DC power systems.

    Mil-STD-704 does.



    So we can deduce nothing about the trip dynamics

    of their OV protection system from the data supplied.



    I'm tracking down an acceptance test procedure from

    an overhaul shop to see if there's more to be learned.

    In the mean time, since you DO have access to the

    alternator's field voltage, there's a troubleshooting

    guide in Note 8 of:



http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/AppZ_R11J.pdf



    Getting some numbers about system performance

    as described in the procedure will help us help

    you figure out where the electrons fell into

    the mud.



    Bob . . .

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