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Undercarriage

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rexjan(at)bigpond.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:16 pm Post subject: Undercarriage

Hi !  Lowell.

                        You miss one point in your opinion below.  Unless I am sadly mistaken   the track on the Grove gear is about a foot wider. While this is not to do with  the plane being squirrelly it will help when you get in that situation to not  ground loop it. This is because the tail needs to move further across before it  takes over and you can't any longer prevent the loop. In other words the weight  takes over from behind to come around to the front. Sorry I'm not good at  explaining this but I think everyone knows what I'm talking about.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                             Rex

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Australia.

  

 There is nothing inherently squirrely with the tube gear.  I had  both.  (For 

those wondering, I changed out because I was having a hard  time finding the 

ground early on and was concerned with structural damage  due to the limit 

cables on the grear bulkhead.  I know of guys that do  not have the limit 

cables for that reason.)  Lots of posts on the list  address opinions and 

lots of the posts have opinions based on quite limited  experience.



If you find your gear squirrely, it will be due to misaligned  wheels.  This 

topic has been discussed in depth nearly every year or  so.  Toed in wheels 

will result in squirrely ground  handling.   Parallel tracking or slightly 

towed out will be  fine.  If you are landing well and then go squirrely, you 

might try  checking wheel alignment.



Just before we started the "Model, Engine"  survey there was a long thread on 

tri vs. tw gear.  With lots of  discussion about equally divided between nose 

gear and tail wheel  guys.  The immediate implication to me was that lots of 

guys had opted  to go nose wheel - lots of list traffic in favor.  The survey 

showed  that tail wheel is extremely predominant for those responding at 

about  10:1.  Those numbers suggest that tail wheel is not too difficult to  

master by average pilots.



I suspect that if we added spring vs.  bungee to the survey, my guess would 

be that a majority of guys still fly  with the tube gear with none 

complaining.  Neither is inherently better  than the other.  You can find a 

mis-alligned spring that will be just  as squirrely as a mis-aligned tube. 

That is why they sell the angled shims  to correct for misallignment on the 

spring gear.



I have heard of  other negatives on the spring gear besides wt.  They are 

shorter giving  a more shallow angel of attack and quick off the ground is 

not as good as  with the tube gear.  There have been comments recently about 

taller  tube gear for enhanced short field performance I hear that elsewhere  

also.



In short it is all related to the mission of your airplane and  personal 

preferences.  No one's preference is any better than any  other's 

preference - it is all just opinion.   And this is just my  opinion.



Lowell

   [quote][b]

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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:20 am Post subject: Undercarriage

Thanks Rex,  Unfortuantely, I am not experienced in ground loops, tube or 

aluminum , but I suspect the wider stance would help.



Lowell

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dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:54 am Post subject: Undercarriage

If you going to ground loop your Kitfox from pilot error then I guess that a 

wider gear will allow for a  little bit more pilot error  but really I would 

spend 1500 $ on some professional training and save the 15 or twenty pounds 

of weight  and you have got some skills  that will make flying more fun and 

safer as well as broadening your skills to take you to more places.

Dave

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taildragon(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:08 pm Post subject: Undercarriage

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->   

 Hi Lowell,

  

 We could teach you ground loops in a few easy lessons. Lets use your  airplane.

  

 Roger

 [quote]   ---

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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:56 pm Post subject: Undercarriage

Hey, Rodger,



Might go for that.  Let's get together.

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Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 4:25 am Post subject: Undercarriage

With all due respect to those who have voiced their input on this

subject, I'd just like to add my two bits (which is all that it's

worth) to this.  This spring gear/tube gear thread has been off and

on for as long as I can remember on this list and I seriously doubt

that there will ever be a consensus as to which is better.  

In my opinion, having had both, it's a trade off.  Currently I have

the spring gear, but only because it came with the kit.  The spring

gear is significantly heavier.  Mine, with all hardware, wheels,

tires, brake calipers was almost exactly 75lbs.  I've seen people go

to great lengths to save just a few grams of weight on various things

to keep the weight down, yet add a bunch more "pounds" and $$$$ to

add the spring gear.  I've never felt my S5 with spring gear was

easier to handle than my old Model II with tube gear was.  Both

tracked straight and handled cross winds just fine.  Where the big

difference was (other than weight) was when I'd misjudge my full

stall landing and drop it in from a few feet up.  The tube gear would

really bounce where the spring gear tends to just soak it up

smoothly. That's about the only difference I've ever been able to

note.  I have the "tall" spring gear that was produced on the early

S5s.  The gear legs are longer and skinnier than the later models

were.

If you feel your Fox is squirrely then, in my opinion, you need to

focus more on your gear alignment than things like tire pressure,

bungies, or the type of gear you have.  A little toe-in can cause a

good handling airplane to be a handful.

So, I guess one just considers priorities, dollars, weight, and the

experiences of others to make a decision on it.  Oh, there's also the

factor of bungie replacement every couple years, but I never felt it

was a big deal.  I always made my own and the install didn't take

very long.

Regards,

Deke



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tc9008(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:30 am Post subject: Undercarriage

How does the toe end  adjust ?

   Travis

    

  

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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:04 am Post subject: Undercarriage

Deke,



Your thoughts are mine exactly.  I had trouble with neither as far as 

landing is concerned, or taxiing for that matter.  The article in the Kitfox 

Times about gear alignment came as I was building, so that was checked and 

adjusted before the first flight.



It is true, for me at least, that the things I read on this list often 

serves as motivation in considering my airplanes configuration.  It was 

about the time I was seriously dropping it in on almost every landing that a 

post came in regarding a hard landing where the limit cables collapsed the 

bungee bulkhead resulting in a weld in replacement, new fabric etc.  I am in 

Aerothane and the latter didn't seem fun, so I went in the direction of 

ridding myself of the limit cables - aluminum gear.  I have friends that 

simply cut out the limit cables and went without them.  It is hard for me to 

accept those little cables fastened with nicopress fittings being strong 

enough to collapse the bulkhead, but it did and they can.  That became a 

motivation for me to spend the bucks and accept the weight penalty.



Lowell

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