Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - RV7a v. Legacy FG v. Glassair SII FT

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

RV7a v. Legacy FG v. Glassair SII FT
Goto page 1, 2 Next

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

ctnyfl(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 2:10 pm Post subject: RV7a v. Legacy FG v. Glassair SII FT

I am trying to choose between these three aircraft. It

is my first time building, and am leaning towards the

fast build versions. In looking at the specifications

on the company websites it seems the

 RV is considerably less expensive, yet they all have

similar cabin size, baggage capacity and airspeed. The

Legacy and Glassiar do have more range due to higher

fuel capacity, however I really wouldn't want to go

more than 4 hours without stopping anyway.

 

So my question basically is, why does anyone choose

the Lancair or Glassair? The Legacy's ROC and

TO/Landing numbers are far worse. The Glassair has

very nice performance, especially considering the

lower hosepower, but not for a 65% premium over the

RV. 

 

Am I missing anything?  Building time and complexity

is a factor also, but I haven't found any reliable

information about these. 

Financial stability and customer service factors seem

to favor Vans, though , again, that is difficult to

assess.

 

Thanks

Derek

(no flames intended)

 

 

 

 	  Quote: 	
		  From the company websites:

 
	


RV7a              Legacy FG            Glassair SII FT

 

Fast Build Cost 

$25,705           $38,500              $42,544  

                  (no slow build avail.) 

 

 

V Cruise (at) 8000ft.               

205mph            220mph               210mph 

(200hp, cs prop)  (210mph, cs prop)   (180mph,?cs prop

                                                      

             

 

Payload(full fuel)                        

448lb                 360lb             596lb

 

 

Range (at) 8000ft.                       

755sm                 1450sm            1009sm

 

 

Solo ROC                               

2450fpm               1700fpm           2700fpm   

 

 

Solo TO/Landing Roll                

250/350ft              1500/900ft       not lsited    

        

 

 

Baggage Capacity                    

100lb/12 cu. ft.     90lb/ ? cu. ft.  100lb./12 cu.ft.

 

 

Cabin Width"/ Height"              

43/ 42                 43/44.5         42/ ? height

 



__________________________________________________

khorton01(at)rogers.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 2:56 pm Post subject: RV7a v. Legacy FG v. Glassair SII FT

On 23 Sep 2006, at 18:09, Derek Bohn wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I am trying to choose between these three aircraft. It

 is my first time building, and am leaning towards the

 fast build versions. In looking at the specifications

 on the company websites it seems the

  RV is considerably less expensive, yet they all have

 similar cabin size, baggage capacity and airspeed. The

 Legacy and Glassiar do have more range due to higher

 fuel capacity, however I really wouldn't want to go

 more than 4 hours without stopping anyway.



 So my question basically is, why does anyone choose

 the Lancair or Glassair? The Legacy's ROC and

 TO/Landing numbers are far worse. The Glassair has

 very nice performance, especially considering the

 lower hosepower, but not for a 65% premium over the

 RV.



 Am I missing anything?  Building time and complexity

 is a factor also, but I haven't found any reliable

 information about these.

 Financial stability and customer service factors seem

 to favor Vans, though , again, that is difficult to

 assess.


	


1. Look into the implications of the building material for each of  

the aircraft and think about what type of construction you want.   

Composite construction implies many hundreds of hours sanding and  

filling.  Some people are prone to developing allergies to some resins.



2. Visit with some local builders to learn more about how each type  

of aircraft is built.  The more local builders you can find, the  

better, as they will be a useful resource when you have questions, or  

need some assistance.



3. Go for a flight in each of the candidate aircraft so you can  

decide whether you like the performance and handling.



4. Don't be surprised if everyone on the RV-List tells you to build  

an RV.  We're not exactly unbiased.



Why do some people choose the Lancair or Glasair?  Some people are  

attracted to the more curvy designs that composite construction  

allows.  Some people put a higher importance on cruise speed than  

they do on the total performance package (i.e. stall speed, take off  

and landing distances, climb performance, cruise performance).  Some  

people want to fly something unique, and RVs are becoming the new  

Cessna - i.e. every airport seems to have a bunch of them.



Kevin Horton         RV-8 (finishing kit)

Ottawa, Canada

http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8

jhstarn(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:30 pm Post subject: RV7a v. Legacy FG v. Glassair SII FT

We have several metal, rag & tube, wood based & composite aircraft in our 

Chapter (EAA #768) at APV. From what I have heard over the years there is 

two questions you must answer:



Do you really, really LOVE sanding, sanding & sanding some more ? ?.

Does fiberglass of any type....insulation etc. make you itch  ? ?



HRII N561FS & awaiting the RV-12  KABONG (GBA & GWB)

Fiberglass is for Corvettes (driving my 7th one) RV cowls & tips.

Do Not Archive



---

Bruce(at)glasair.org
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 4:19 pm Post subject: RV7a v. Legacy FG v. Glassair SII FT

Hee...Hee. I can still blow your doors off, inverted.



Bruce

www.glasair.org

 



--

Doug Gray

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 112
Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:20 pm Post subject: RV7a v. Legacy FG v. Glassair SII FT

HRII has no doors... must've already blown off!



Re Glasair build times, check the glasair website, the builders log

pages list build times.  Might have to subscribe for $45 a year to read

them though.



Osh 2006 Glasair dinner cancelled due lack of interest.



How many RV builders have lost their money due kit non delivery?  Ans:

Zero



The Glasair is a fantastic aeroplane, no question. Why is it not as

successful as it should be?  Read the body language.



Doug Gray

Flameproof suit is on.



On Sat, 2006-09-23 at 20:18 -0400, Bruce Gray wrote:

[quote] 

 

 Hee...Hee. I can still blow your doors off, inverted.

 

 Bruce

 www.glasair.org

  

 

 --

Bruce(at)glasair.org
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:43 pm Post subject: RV7a v. Legacy FG v. Glassair SII FT

OK, we do take longer to build than those pop rivet kits, but the end result

is worth it. Can you do an outside loop in your RV? The dinner was cancelled

for other reasons.



Bruce

www.glasair.org

 



--

ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:40 pm Post subject: RV7a v. Legacy FG v. Glassair SII FT

Derek Bohn wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



I am trying to choose between these three aircraft. It

is my first time building, and am leaning towards the

fast build versions. In looking at the specifications

on the company websites it seems the

 RV is considerably less expensive, yet they all have

similar cabin size, baggage capacity and airspeed. The

Legacy and Glassiar do have more range due to higher

fuel capacity, however I really wouldn't want to go

more than 4 hours without stopping anyway.

 

So my question basically is, why does anyone choose

the Lancair or Glassair? The Legacy's ROC and

TO/Landing numbers are far worse. The Glassair has

very nice performance, especially considering the

lower hosepower, but not for a 65% premium over the

RV. 

 

Am I missing anything?  Building time and complexity

is a factor also, but I haven't found any reliable

information about these. 

Financial stability and customer service factors seem

to favor Vans, though , again, that is difficult to

assess.

 

Thanks

Derek

(no flames intended)




	


As others have pointed out, mission & building material choice should be 

driving factors, with support & business reputation/history 

overshadowing even those items.



One thing you didn't list in your comparison is stall speed. I looked at 

all three when I was younger & uneducated. As I got a bit older & better 

educated, I got a bit more focused on analyzing 'best worst case' 

scenarios. Back when I got serious about making a selection, an 

engine-out, off-airport landing in any of the Lancairs would have had 

about the same result as an off-airport landing in a twin (death). The 

Glasairs were highly variable, depending on model. Supposedly, the old 

G-1's had a tolerable landing speed if built light; I can't remember 

about the 2, & the 3 was as bad as, or worse than, the Lancairs.



Just one more thing to consider as you make your selection.



Charlie

(hoping I never hear that Van is selling to an investment group)

Mark Phillips in TN

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 431
Location: Columbia, TN

Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:58 pm Post subject: RV7a v. Legacy FG v. Glassair SII FT

In a message dated 09/23/2006 8:45:08 PM Central Daylight Time, Bruce(at)glasair.org writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  OK, we do take longer to build than those pop rivet kits, but the end result

is worth it. 	


 >>> (sound of gauntlet hitting floor...)

  

 Pop rivets?  We don't need no STEENKING pop rivets!!!

  

 C'mon, folks- try one of each on for size and build whatever floats yer boat.

  

 Mark do not archive  

  [quote][b]

_________________
From The PossumWorks...

jeffpoint

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 72
Location: MKE

Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:05 pm Post subject: RV7a v. Legacy FG v. Glassair SII FT

Bruce Gray wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Hee...Hee. I can still blow your doors off, inverted.



Bruce

  



There are three Glasair builders in my EAA chapter.  After hanging 
	


around with them for years, I've learned something about Glasairs.  

Namely, how does every challange from a Glasair guy begin?...



     "Oh yeah?  Oh yeah?  Well, when I get MY Glasair done, we'll race, 

and then ....."



Jeff Point

RV-6 flying

RV-8 preview plans

Milwaukee

do not archive

_________________
Jeff Point
RV-6
Milwaukee WI

jhstarn(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:58 pm Post subject: RV7a v. Legacy FG v. Glassair SII FT

Why are ALL the "plastic" airplanes only painted white ? ?. Is it that their 

owners have not color style.......OR is it that painted anything else and 

the sun turns them into crispy critters. All cracks & wrinkles....and then 

they have to be stripped, sanded & filled & sanded & sanded & then painted 

white again.

Why Yes Gummibear, I did reply direct, off-list regarding the "doors".

The HRII only has one "door" & that's for checking the oil level.

KABONG  8*) Do Not Archive



Subject: RE: RV7a v. Legacy FG v. Glassair SII FT

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hee...Hee. I can still blow your doors off, inverted.



 Bruce

 www.glasair.org



 two questions you must answer:



 Do you really, really LOVE sanding, sanding & sanding some more ? ?.

 Does fiberglass of any type....insulation etc. make you itch  ? ?



 HRII N561FS & awaiting the RV-12  KABONG (GBA & GWB)

 Fiberglass is for Corvettes (driving my 7th one) RV cowls & tips.

 Do Not Archive

jhstarn(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:35 am Post subject: RV7a v. Legacy FG v. Glassair SII FT

"Pop Rivet" kits ? ?,  I thought we were talking about Van's RV's & Harmon 

Rocket airplanes.

The -12 is reported to be "pulled rivets" but it's not available yet.

ALL RV's & Rockets are flush driven rivets kits. We used "Pop Rivets" only 

in blind areas such as control tube ends where it's not possible to fit a 

bucking bar into an 1 1/2" round tube & the end bearing in the same place at 

the same time.

Outside loop ? ?,  Nope, never tried and I've have not done a 

"lavencheck"(spelling  ?) either but I did survive as a passenger when the 

RV-6A I was in went upside down when hitting fence at the end of the runway. 

In any of the "plastic" airplanes we would have hit going a lot faster 

(higher stall & landing speed) and with less inverted protection.

KABONG Do Not Archive



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 OK, we do take longer to build than those pop rivet kits, but the end 

 result is worth it. Can you do an outside loop in your RV? The dinner was 

 cancelled for other reasons.

 Bruce
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   www.glasair.org

DanFM01(at)butter.toast.n
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:53 am Post subject: RV7a v. Legacy FG v. Glassair SII FT

Before you make your final decision, be sure you get a chance to sit in the 

cockpit of your intended!  If your body deviates very far from the standard 

FAA adult male, you may find that you're not happy in many of the homebuilts 

available today.  It sounds trivial but comfort is important.  Even better 

get a ride in one.

---

LessDragProd(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:02 am Post subject: RV7a v. Legacy FG v. Glassair SII FT

Doors?  We don't have any stinking doors!  

  

  

 In a message dated 09/23/2006 5:20:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time,  Bruce(at)glasair.org writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray"    <Bruce(at)glasair.org>



Hee...Hee. I can still blow your doors off,    inverted.



Bruce

www.glasair.org

	


 

  

  [quote][b]

Vanremog(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:13 am Post subject: RV7a v. Legacy FG v. Glassair SII FT

In a message dated 9/24/2006 8:55:27 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  DanFM01(at)butter.toast.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Before    you make your final decision, be sure you get a chance to sit in the    

cockpit of your intended!  If your body deviates very far from the    standard 

FAA adult male, you may find that you're not happy in many of the    homebuilts 

available today.  It sounds trivial but comfort is    important.  Even better 

get a ride in  one.

	


 

 ===================================

  

 Look carefully at insurance price and availability at your current  skill level and then research what additional costs would be required to get  that insurance down to what us RV drivers pay.  You could find that fast  glass is quite costly in other ways.

  

 Do not archive.

  

  

 GV (RV-6A  N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 808hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)  

  [quote][b]

bo124rs(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:25 am Post subject: RV7a v. Legacy FG v. Glassair SII FT

OK, might as well throw my two cents in.  My first airplane was the plastic 

variety.  My second airplane is obviously the metal variety.  What I 

immediately liked about the metal variety was when you put two pieces 

together you actually had a part and not two pieces drying over a day or 

two.  Example:  rivet part A to part B, now rivet part AB to C, now rivet 

part ABC...............follow my drift:-)  Seriously, when you build a 

plastic airplane it seems like you have to have multiple operations going on 

to be able to keep working.  You spend a vast amount of, what could be 

building time, watching things dry.  You end up grabbing a beer, in the mean 

time,  then losing your motivation to build that day.



Dana Overall

Richmond, KY i39

RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"

O 360 A1A, C/S C2YK-1BF/F7666A4

http://rvflying.tripod.com/id30.html

do not archive



_________________________________________________________________

Search—Your way, your world, right now!  

http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG

B25Flyer

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 11

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: RV7a v. Legacy FG v. Glassair SII FT

One deciding factor is that I am a buyer, not a builder, and I would never buy a plastic airplane that was not built in a controlled environment, i.e. a factory.  I love flying plastic airplanes, but there is too much risk associated with buying one.  



The numbers flying pretty well answers your question, build the RV.



Tailwinds,

Doug Rozendaal 

bought 2- RV-4s and a F-1 EVO

jjessen

Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 285
Location: OR

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:04 am Post subject: RV7a v. Legacy FG v. Glassair SII FT

Correct and good advice.  I absolutely loved the flight I had in the Glasair

Super II, but hated the seating and cramped feeling.  I could not talk

myself past that.  Some feel the same way about the Legacy and the RV-7 and

RV-9.  However, one ride in the RV-10 and I found my comfort zone.  Also

found the same comfort in the Sportsman, but that plane's mission is not

quite what I want.  Soon, but not just yet.  Comfort, 4-seats, good speed,

handles most airports with ease, etc etc.  



John Jessen

  RV-10 tailcone



do not archive 



--

go_lancair

Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 3
Location: Glenside, PA

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:56 am Post subject: Re: RV7a v. Legacy FG v. Glassair SII FT

Ok, no one can resist this kind of question. Each person makes a good point, but most of you guys have not done enough research. In the same search I visited each facility, talked to the representatives and by the end of AirVenture 2006 had flown in each aircraft. To say the least Glasiar has lost interest in their FT's III's etc to go for the cash cow Sportsman. They sent me manuals for the FT which were completely out of date and poorly bound. I'd be surprised if they even sold one sport unit this year. The sales curve on that product is somewhere down there with the Cessna 150. Van's has a good product albiet I found their staff to be generally rude and little interested in me as a customer. I bought the empannage kit for the RV-8 (because it was cheap), built it and gave it to the recylcing center after flying the Lancair. Speaking of flying the RV(7) it flew just fine as an aircraft but noisy, not especially comfortable and somewhere the wind was whistling through with annoying prevalence. At take off time it rattled and shuttered as we approached Vr. The Lancair was incredibly smooth, fast climbing, and without a whisper of air in the cabin.  Climb out was an easy 110 knots at 2000 ft p/min. I was sold in an instant. Did I mention Lanciar is the only build with solid controls? Yes, that makes me feel safer and it gives the plane a solid feeling. Did I mention Lancair is the only plane in the EAA museum and the NYC modern museum of art? The plane is totally responsive like I would expect from any good airplane.  And no, you don't need to cross the numbers at 110. I found the staff especially professional and welcoming (will provide references). BTW I don't know about the Glasair dinner, but the ramp guy at Airventure was pissed as the demo did not leave the field all week. I guess that tells you something. So I will start my baby Lancair in March 07' and get the sniffles from fiberglass dust, life sucks. I have plenty of cuts from the RV empennage too. No one gets away clean. One thing Van's doesn't promote is the fact that yes they have over 5,000 kits flying, but have sold over 100,000 kits (or pieces) to people that have no intention of finishing them. Lancair is no where near those numbers, but as far as I can tell has a strong family of high flyers. In the end it's your ass in the plane, your 100+k and it should be finished exactly as you like it. Happy flying.

jmsears(at)adelphia.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:12 am Post subject: RV7a v. Legacy FG v. Glassair SII FT

Hmmm.  Seems this person is on the wrong list.    I've found the RV to be 

to my liking, what I can afford, and a kit I'm not afraid to buy because the 

company should be around for a long time.   I've found the staff to be 

helpful and usually cheerful to talk with.  I'm building a third RV and have 

found improvements, at very little or no cost increases, with each new 

project.  Granted, the Lancair is a mighty fine airplane; but, it's one that 

most of us can ill afford.  One of my criteria was that the airplane had to 

be metal because I can't afford a hangar.  I'm afraid a glass airplane would 

melt in the sun, over time.  My RV has been outside for most of its flying 

life and is still holding its shape.



Jim in KY

do not archive



---

jsflyrv(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:02 pm Post subject: RV7a v. Legacy FG v. Glassair SII FT

go_lancair wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Ok, no one can resist this kind of question. Each person makes a good

 point, but most of you guys have not done enough research. In the

 same search I visited each facility,


	




 	  Quote: 	
		   Did I mention Lanciar is the only build with solid

 controls? Yes, that makes me feel safer and it gives the plane a

 solid feeling.


	


What dose that mean? Solid controls? Seems to me like my RV-6 has sokid 

controls. And guess what it does not even shake or rattle at takeoff.



 	  Quote: 	
		   Did I mention Lancair is the only plane in the EAA

 museum and the NYC modern museum of art?


	


Ii am supposed to be impressed becaue their airplane is in the NYC 

museum? LOL They have piss and crap  in there also.



 	  Quote: 	
		   The plane is totally

 responsive like I would expect from any good airplane. 


	


Most military pilots I know like the RV-** feel because it feel more 

fighter like and does aerobatics much beter than a Lancair ever could.

 	  Quote: 	
		    And no, you

 don't need to cross the numbers at 110.


	




No you don't but you have to be really cose to it. BTW I do have time in 

all three aircraft you mentioned.



 	  Quote: 	
		   I found the staff especially

 professional and welcoming (will provide references).


	


Van's also will provide you with information and help you find builders 

in your area.



 	  Quote: 	
		  BTW I don't

 know about the Glasair dinner, but the ramp guy at Airventure was

 pissed as the demo did not leave the field all week. I guess that

 tells you something.


	


???????????????just what does that tell you? Maybe everyone got sick at 

the dinner. LOL



 	  Quote: 	
		   So I will start my baby Lancair in March 07' and

 get the sniffles from fiberglass dust, life sucks. I have plenty of

 cuts from the RV ! empennage too. No one gets away clean. One thing

 Van's doesn't! promote is the fact that yes they have over 5,000 kits flying, but have sold

 over 100,000 kits (or pieces) to people that have no intention of

 finishing them.


	


I really doubt that anyone buys a kit with the intention of not 

finishing them.

 	  Quote: 	
		   Lancair is no where near those numbers, but as far as

 I can tell has a strong family of high flyers. In the end it's your

 ass in the plane, your 100+k and it should be finished exactly as you

 like it. Happy flying.

 

Yes Lancairs are pretty airplanes, yes they go fast. No they are nearly 
	


as much fun to fly as a RV. They are like owning a cessna etc. you get 

in and go from point A to point B not much fun in between. Any old 

airplane will do that.



Jerry

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page 1, 2 Next
Page 1 of 2

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum