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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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 Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:34 am Post subject: trim |
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Hi,
need some help. My firestar before the accident had a trim tab on the elevator, which I haven't found yet in all the mess, and would fly hands off. Of course there have been many changes in the repair, and my memory is 62 years old so not the best. It is possible that I have forgotten the way my motor was mounted. Number of washers under the motor? I currently have two under each corner.
The problem that I am having is that I have to use a fair amount of back pressure on the stick to maintain level flight. Roger told me to adjust the ailerons up to level it out. Perhaps I just haven't done it enough, but the problem doesn't seem to be abating. I have them noticeably reflexed up but it still wants to dive to the ground. I am going to go search again for the tab. My question is the amount and number of washers under the motor. (plans are a bit vague) Perhaps the angle of the motor is forcing it down.
A preliminary check (won't know until I can get level flight established) is that the prop does indeed give me more speed. As you know I put 800x6 tires on Dart, expecting that the increased size would slow me down a bit, but I am so far indicating that it is going faster than it was before. I need to stabilize and then do some more tests.
Larry, Ore
do not archive
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slyck(at)frontiernet.net
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| Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:19 pm Post subject: trim |
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Larry, both items you mentioned would add to the nose down.
-more thrust from the prop
-bigger tires
I would forget the washers and stick on a new elevator tab,
or, if you are really ambitious, change the horizontal stab angle.
BB
On 30, Sep 2006, at 3:33 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
| Quote: | Hi,
need some help. My firestar before the accident had a trim tab on
the elevator, which I haven't found yet in all the mess, and would fly
hands off. Of course there have been many changes in the repair, and
my memory is 62 years old so not the best. It is possible that I have
forgotten the way my motor was mounted. Number of washers under the
motor? I currently have two under each corner.
The problem that I am having is that I have to use a fair amount of
back pressure on the stick to maintain level flight. Roger told me to
adjust the ailerons up to level it out. Perhaps I just haven't done it
enough, but the problem doesn't seem to be abating. I have them
noticeably reflexed up but it still wants to dive to the ground. I am
going to go search again for the tab. My question is the amount and
number of washers under the motor. (plans are a bit vague) Perhaps the
angle of the motor is forcing it down.
A preliminary check (won't know until I can get level flight
established) is that the prop does indeed give me more speed. As you
know I put 800x6 tires on Dart, expecting that the increased size
would slow me down a bit, but I am so far indicating that it is going
faster than it was before. I need to stabilize and then do some more
tests.
Larry, Ore
do not archive
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Eugene Zimmerman
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 392
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| Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:00 pm Post subject: trim |
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Hi Larry,
There is one more thing that affects pitch trim besides stabilizer
incidence and aileron reflex and that is the shape and size of the
wind screen. Have you changed it from your previous setup?
If you made it larger it will have a greater nose down tendency that
you will need to overcome.
Most times corrections can be made with just the stabilizer and
aileron adjustments but also check to be sure that your CG has not
move forward during your rebuild.
Gene,
On Sep 30, 2006, at 3:33 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
| Quote: | Hi,
need some help. My firestar before the accident had a trim tab on
the elevator, which I haven't found yet in all the mess, and would
fly hands off. Of course there have been many changes in the
repair, and my memory is 62 years old so not the best. It is
possible that I have forgotten the way my motor was mounted. Number
of washers under the motor? I currently have two under each corner.
The problem that I am having is that I have to use a fair amount of
back pressure on the stick to maintain level flight. Roger told me
to adjust the ailerons up to level it out. Perhaps I just haven't
done it enough, but the problem doesn't seem to be abating. I have
them noticeably reflexed up but it still wants to dive to the
ground. I am going to go search again for the tab. My question is
the amount and number of washers under the motor. (plans are a bit
vague) Perhaps the angle of the motor is forcing it down.
A preliminary check (won't know until I can get level flight
established) is that the prop does indeed give me more speed. As
you know I put 800x6 tires on Dart, expecting that the increased
size would slow me down a bit, but I am so far indicating that it
is going faster than it was before. I need to stabilize and then do
some more tests.
Larry, Ore
do not archive
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:46 pm Post subject: trim |
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| Quote: | There is one more thing that affects pitch trim besides stabilizer
incidence and aileron reflex and that is the shape and size of the wind
screen. Have you changed it from your previous setup?
Most times corrections can be made with just the stabilizer and
|
| Quote: | aileron adjustments but also check to be sure that your CG has not move
forward during your rebuild.
|
The enclosure is the same, I only had to replace the center portion and it
was cut the same size. I have not weighed it, but the only change is a
breakaway tail wheel. It weighs about four pounds more, but I have had one
before, so I doubt very much if that is the problem. Since it would move the
cg back.
Larry, Or
do not archive
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:02 pm Post subject: trim |
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| The enclosure is the same,
| Larry, Or
Larry C:
I have discovered, over the years, the static position of the ailerons
will not be the same as the flying position. In flight, with air
flowing over the wing, the ailerons are pushed down somewhat. When
the ailerons become only slightly drooped, they will, in turn, cause
the nose of the aircraft to pitch down.
Someone else mentioned larger tires causing more nose down pitch, as
well as a Warp Drive producing more thrust and more nose down pitch.
I certainly agree with this. However, you may be able to overcome
this change with a little more up aileron.
It is easy for us mkIII flyers to experiement with the flaps and see
the results. That is how I discovered the air flow pushing down on
flaps and ailerons on my mkIII.
Take care,
john h
mkIII (got power, but not yet installed)
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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 6:33 pm Post subject: trim |
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| Quote: | Someone else mentioned larger tires causing more nose down pitch, as
well as a Warp Drive producing more thrust and more nose down pitch.
I certainly agree with this. However, you may be able to overcome
this change with a little more up aileron.
|
I will try more aileron tomorrow. I must have set the record for dirt
landings today. I had them turned up quite noticeably to the point that I
began to believe that I had misunderstood what Roger was telling me. I had
not considered the tires, but when you think of it there is a lot of surface
out there dragging the front of the plane down. Maybe I will fill them with
helium to counteract the drag. 
I flew until 1215 today and then used the rest of the day installing my
Kunzelman strobes. Every thing was fine until I tried to make the plug
connection that goes into the box. Man there has to be a better way. I just
was not comfortable with the way that the plugs were put together, so I
ended up soldering them. I like the strobes, the service and the man, but
his ears had to be burning today! They need to connect the plug ends at the
factory and leave one end open so that you can cut them to the size that you
want.
Larry, Or
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Thom Riddle
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:20 am Post subject: trim |
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Larry,
When I changed my small tires for the big 800x6 tires like you have,
the top cruise speed of my Titan dropped about 3-4 mph and is why I
removed and sold them. I didn't need them on a paved runway anyway,
just an experiment. On a Firestar, the speed cost is probably a bit
less but still measurable so it sounds like your new prop is a winner.
Thom in Buffalo
do not archive
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Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous |
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biglar
Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457
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