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Two Series 7 Questions

 
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darinh



Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 327
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:04 pm    Post subject: Two Series 7 Questions Reply with quote

I am prepping my tanks for install on my Series 7 and have run into a few questions.

1. The manual says to carefully tap the the openings in the tanks to clean out the existing threads. I then says to use a 1/8" NPT and 3/8" NPT tap. Obviously the 1/8" must be a typo as there are no holes in the tank that size. QUESTION: What are the correct sized as I will need to buy taps this size (they look to be 3/8" NPT and 5/8" NPT, not 1/8").

2. The manual also says to use a thread sealant that is compatible with gasoline. I have a small tube of sealant that came with the kit labeled 9AR. QUESTION: Is this the thread sealant I should use? And if not, can someone suggest a one that has worked?

Lastly, and this has been beaten like a dead horse, but I have yet to figure it out. What has everyone been doing about the E85 fuel compatibility of the resin in our tanks? I have yet to find a slosh that is compatible. I know there has been at least a couple of Kitfoxes built within the last year, so someone should know something. There is always the option of simply not using gasoline and sticking with 100LL with a lead scavenger which is what I am planning. But is is nice to be able to fill up with premium unleaded when at the home field. If anyone knows of a product that will work, I would appreciate hearing about it.

Thanks guys,

Darin Hawkes
Series 7


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jdmcbean(at)cableone.net
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:25 pm    Post subject: Two Series 7 Questions Reply with quote

Darin,
The 1/8" and 5/8" NPT are correct. The 1/8" NPT is are the fuel sight tube
fittings and vent tube. The 5/8" NPT is the main fuel line where the finger
strainer is used. The 9AR is a good fuel sealant has worked well on ours.

Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"

--


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pwmac(at)sisna.com
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:14 pm    Post subject: Two Series 7 Questions Reply with quote

Wow, E85 will eat most any thing in a fiberglass tank as well as the
sealant for the fittings. E10 is bad enough.
Lots of fitting sealer used over the years for various members of
the list. I am sure you will get many suggestions. Some work some
don't. My suggestion is to call Permatex and get ahold of the
application engineer and tell him what fuel you want to use and that
you have a fiberglass tank. Do not tell him it is for an airplane.
The guy will tell you what their best product is. And I bet it will
be different than when I called 2 years ago.
Don't worry about the tap - just use the one that fits.

BTW, you should reconsider using E85 its bad stuff and I know of no
engine used in planes that will not be damaged by the stuff, unless
you are using something out of an auto less than a year old that was
originally designed for E85. I know of no sloshing compound designed
for pure or 85% alcohol. You would need nylon, polyurethane, or
Aluminum tanks. Then you would have to use Teflon hoses and then make
your engine compatible buy changing the materials in the
fuel system. Its a real big deal to use more that 10%
Regards, Paul
====================

At 03:04 PM 10/1/2006, you wrote:
Quote:


I am prepping my tanks for install on my Series 7 and have run into
a few questions.

1. The manual says to carefully tap the the openings in the tanks
to clean out the existing threads. I then says to use a 1/8" NPT
and 3/8" NPT tap. Obviously the 1/8" must be a typo as there are no
holes in the tank that size. QUESTION: What are the correct sized
as I will need to buy taps this size (they look to be 3/8" NPT and
5/8" NPT, not 1/8").

2. The manual also says to use a thread sealant that is compatible
with gasoline. I have a small tube of sealant that came with the
kit labeled 9AR. QUESTION: Is this the thread sealant I should
use? And if not, can someone suggest a one that has worked?

Lastly, and this has been beaten like a dead horse, but I have yet
to figure it out. What has everyone been doing about the E85 fuel
compatibility of the resin in our tanks? I have yet to find a slosh
that is compatible. I know there has been at least a couple of
Kitfoxes built within the last year, so someone should know
something. There is always the option of simply not using gasoline
and sticking with 100LL with a lead scavenger which is what I am
planning. But is is nice to be able to fill up with premium
unleaded when at the home field. If anyone knows of a product that
will work, I would appreciate hearing about it.

Thanks guys,

Darin Hawkes
Series 7


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Guy Buchanan



Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:35 pm    Post subject: Two Series 7 Questions Reply with quote

At 02:04 PM 10/1/2006, you wrote:
Quote:
1. The manual says to carefully tap the the openings in the tanks to
clean out the existing threads. I then says to use a 1/8" NPT and 3/8"
NPT tap. Obviously the 1/8" must be a typo as there are no holes in the
tank that size. QUESTION: What are the correct sized as I will need to
buy taps this size (they look to be 3/8" NPT and 5/8" NPT, not 1/8").

The sizes recommended are correct. A 1/8" NPT looks like 3/8" NC. It's a
bit confusing because they're pipe sizes.

However, if I had to do it over again I'd do some serious investigation
into putting a permanent 1/2" NPT boss at the intakes to facilitate
repeated removal and installation of the finger strainers. The 1/8 NPT
brass vent boss is permanent, since the vent is attached using a 90 degree
AN fitting into a pipe/flare junction, which is never removed from the
brass boss which is never removed from the tank. However the 3/8" NPT
finger strainers are threaded into the tank directly which makes
maintenance a pain. Eventually the threads will fail and I'll have to do
the 1/2" boss installation with the tanks in the plane. I understand using
a 1/2" boss will raise the pick-ups about 3/16", but since I never run the
tanks that dry anyway I don't think it will be a problem.

Quote:
2. The manual also says to use a thread sealant that is compatible with
gasoline. I have a small tube of sealant that came with the kit labeled
9AR. QUESTION: Is this the thread sealant I should use? And if not, can
someone suggest a one that has worked?

I tried lots of things which didn't work. (Permatex 1 & 2 & Grey.) The one
that did was the 2-part polysulfide sealant sold by, among others, Aircraft
Spruce. It's hideously expensive and messy to work with, but it definitely
works with 100LL, even on a polyethylene tank. (This before Herb found the
great polyethylene adhesive. I should have looked harder. Thanks Herb!)
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.


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Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.
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Guy Buchanan



Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:42 pm    Post subject: Two Series 7 Questions Reply with quote

At 04:10 PM 10/1/2006, you wrote:
Quote:
You would need nylon, polyurethane, or
Aluminum tanks. Then you would have to use Teflon hoses and then make
your engine compatible buy changing the materials in the
fuel system. Its a real big deal to use more that 10%
Regards, Paul

Paul,
I wouldn't go that far. Most gasoline storage tanks are made, now,
of vinylester / E-glass laminate. It's entirely possible, (though
unlikely,) that Skystar used vinylester in their original fabrication and
that the tanks are impervious to auto and aviation fuel. Maybe John McBean
at Kitfox will know.
Guy


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A glider pilot too.
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darinh



Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 327
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Two Series 7 Questions Reply with quote

Thanks guys! Funny thing is about 15 minutes after I posted this question about the taps, I realized they are NPT threads...I have read this many times in the manual and written it in the original post and still have no idea why I failed to notice the big capitalized NPT...maybe its that 2-part varnish I have been using... Shocked

As for the tanks and fuel...we don't have any alcohol in our fuel out here yet but I am sure it is coming. I will simply plan on using it until the ethynol bug hits and then switch to 100LL with a lead scavenger.

Thanks again,

Darin Hawkes
Series 7


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shilocom(at)mcmsys.com
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:21 pm    Post subject: Two Series 7 Questions Reply with quote

http://www.age85.org/

Go to the above site and study for a while before making such claims below.
Many Lycomings and Continentals are run on AGE85 which is at least 85%
ethanol and generally closser to 90%. Read for yourself. Bob U.

---


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shilocom(at)mcmsys.com
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:22 pm    Post subject: Two Series 7 Questions Reply with quote

By the way the PR-1005-L slosh sold by ASP is good for Ethanol. You can
call 1=800-237-6649 or ASP them selves. Bob U.

---


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Float Flyr



Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:43 pm    Post subject: Two Series 7 Questions Reply with quote

Your post is the first I've heard of a lead scavenger can you tell me more
about this process?

Noel

[quote] --


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Kitfox III-A
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Float Flyr



Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:10 pm    Post subject: Two Series 7 Questions Reply with quote

I notice this fuel is so good it requires an STC. Available for only few
engines and it seems only on a C180. This is uncertified fuel and there
fore should not be used when carrying paying passengers.

I noticed one of the constituents is bio-diesel A fuel that has no specs
what ever. So much for consistency. Of course with the affinity ethanol
has for water/vapour you can't expect any consistency any way.

The only plus I see is it is described as being no lead.

Before using this stuff be sure your complete fuel system is ethanol
compatible and your insurance allows it's use.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.... Ethanol is a dismally poor, at
best, half baked, makeshift answer to a big question. There are better
answers out there all we have to do is develop them. Of course most of
these answers won't get politicians in agricultural ridings get re-elected

Alcohol and flight should be separated by at least twelve hours....always!

Noel

[quote] --


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Float Flyr



Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:02 pm    Post subject: Two Series 7 Questions Reply with quote

I feel fortunate that there is so little ethanol degraded fuel in this area.
There seems to be two or three things that can be done when dealing with a
substance that is better suited to a glass after flying than in a tank to
fly on.

1. The alcohol can be washed out of the fuel using plain old fashioned
water. This of course has to be done in separate containers and the water
drained off before fuelling your plane. There are a couple of
inconveniences, one, it requires separate containers that you won't be
flying to remote fields with and secondly, you cant be sure of what other
additives the water will wash out.

2. Find a source of non eth fuel.

3. A guy on another list says he has been using eth laced fuel for years
with no problems(composite tanks) He was premixing his gas for his R582.
Recently, within the last year, he installed a Jab and now uses a little top
lube (oil) in his gas in hopes that is why his tanks were not attacked by
the booze. He may be right as it is more than possible that the alcohol may
have more affinity to oil than to epoxy.

The old dead horse now officially flogged again!
Noel

Quote:
Lastly, and this has been beaten like a dead horse, but I
have yet to figure it out. What has everyone been doing
about the E85 fuel compatibility of the resin in our tanks?
I have yet to find a slosh that is compatible. I know there
has been at least a couple of Kitfoxes built within the last
year, so someone should know something. There is always the
option of simply not using gasoline and sticking with 100LL
with a lead scavenger which is what I am planning. But is is
nice to be able to fill up with premium unleaded when at the
home field. If anyone knows of a product that will work, I
would appreciate hearing about it.


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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats
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darinh



Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 327
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:49 am    Post subject: Re: Two Series 7 Questions Reply with quote

Float Flyr,

We don't have ethynol laced fuel in my area yet either but I am sure it is coming. I will use premium unleaded in my Series 7 until they start mixing the corn gas (ethynol) in. At that point, I will make the switch to 100LL with a lead scavenger. In my model III I always carried a bottle of the scavenger for when I fueled up while on X-country trips.

The scavenger is called Decalin TCP and John McBean sells it on Sportplanellc.com. Here is a link:

http://www.sportplanellc.com/Decalin%20TCP.htm

John uses it exclusively in his personal Kitfox as I understand and if its good for his Fox, it will be good for mine.

Darin Hawkes
Series 7


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