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rectifying problems maybe

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jsflan(at)valornet.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:28 am Post subject: rectifying problems maybe

The red Kolb functioned pretty well yesterday and was able to do a  reasonable aerial shoot without major problems. 

  

 Have been holding right rudder...just a bit...  to keep it straight at  50 mphi and about...not sure, but about ... 5300 rpms. Decided to try "feet off"  and got slight nose pitch up and what felt like a slight flutter somewhere  behind me. Can't see what's going on back there. Not reassuring, though. Back to  pedals and okay again, but holding a bit to keep it straight and flutter  disappeared. Did it twice. Air calm, conditions ideal.

  

 The huge rudder trim tab (12" tall and 6 3/4" wide at bottom, bent  about  15 or so degrees to right as you face the cockpit, and riveted 22"  down from top on  the trailing edge pipe of the  rudder), was  sloppy, loose. Drilled the aluminums and the one steel rivet wasn't attached  anyway, intending to find a better way to attach the tab  to the round  pipe surface.

  

 A&P said it you are having to hold right rudder, you are already  fighting that trim  tab.. "Try flying it without it." Think I read one of  the Kolber gurus said you gottas have em, nature of the beast and all that.   

  

 I'd like some solid information about this idea before I play test pilot  again. Ideas?

 Wouldn't mind flying tomorrow. Some  haze with the moisture, but good  conditions in a.m. 

  

 Still a bit of oil spray on prop, apparently  from behind the front  carb on the 532. Just replaced the gaskets at about 95 buck s a whack each and  think I have em tight. Oil appears to be from one of the little mystery hoses  there. Again, open to ideas of getting this thing good to go. Did replace the  muffler gaskets, and didn't put any sealant on them. Ones I removed that were  really leaking looked okay. Wondering if there is slight warp that may have  occurred in past.

  

 Anyway, always grateful for the help and the array of ideas.

  

  

 jsf

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George Alexander

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 245
Location: SW Florida

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:23 am Post subject: Re: rectifying problems maybe

 	  jsflan(at)valornet.com wrote: 	
		    

 Have been holding right rudder...just a bit...  

<<<SNIP>>>  

 The huge rudder trim tab (12" tall and 6 3/4" wide at bottom, bent  about  15 or so degrees to right as you face the cockpit, and riveted 22"  down from top on  the trailing edge pipe of the  rudder)

<<<SNIP>>> 	


 

Not sure from whom/where I got the recommendation for attaching the fixed trim tab, (CRS) but I do remember that it was from a respected source.  

Mine spans the bottom two ribs in the rudder (not the bottom edge).  This puts the vertical center of the trim tab at about the horiz stab.  In the construction of the rudder, the ribs are bent at the rudder trailing edge into 'L' shape, then riveted to the TE.  The rudder trim tab was made of sufficient size to be able to rivet it to the ribs a couple of inches forward of the TE and in the 'L' where it connects to the TE.  I did not rivet it to the TE.  Have attached a picture of the rudder showing the approximate set up for the trim tab and where it is riveted.  The blue lines are the rudder ribs and the dots show the rivets.  (The picture was actually taken before the trim tab was installed.  I have modified the image to show the approximate setup.)

 	  jsflan(at)valornet.com wrote: 	
		    A&P said it you are having to hold right rudder, you are already  fighting that trim  tab.. 

<<<SNIP>>>

	


Would agree with your A&P re: fighting the rudder.  Too much trim.  Take some of the angle out.

 

 

   	  jsflan(at)valornet.com wrote: 	
		    

 Still a bit of oil spray on prop, apparently  from behind the front  carb on the 532. Just replaced the gaskets at about 95 buck s a whack each and  think I have em tight. Oil appears to be from one of the little mystery hoses  there. 

<<<SNIP>>>

  

 jsf 	


My guess is that your "little mystery hoses" are overflows from the carb bowls.  Check carb alignment to ensure that they are level particularly if you have had the carbs off replacing "gaskets".



Just some things to consider.  Worth what you paid for it.

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_________________
George Alexander
FS II R503
E-LSA N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:50 am Post subject: rectifying problems maybe

John if you put a motor actuator to flap that tab you won't need a prop.

do not archive

On 3, Oct 2006, at 1:26 PM, john s. flannery wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   The red Kolb functioned pretty well yesterday and was able to do a 

 reasonable aerial shoot without major problems.

 I'd like some solid information about this idea before I play test 

 pilot again. Ideas?

 g>

Kenanddenice(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:31 pm Post subject: rectifying problems maybe

Just tuned in to your message, don't know how far you are into checking for  sure what is on the prop.

  

 Bing's will let fuel overflow from the small vent line if the float is set  to high or if the valve is not sealing completely.

  

 Just out of curiosity have you given the substance the good old taste  test?  Sweet or not? 

 Oil vs coolant.

  

 Just a thought.

  

 Ken

  [quote][b]

Steve Boetto

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 365

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:59 pm Post subject: rectifying problems maybe

In a message dated 10/3/2006 1:30:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  jsflan(at)valornet.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  "feet    off" and got slight nose pitch up and what felt like a slight flutter    somewhere behind me. Can't see what's going on back there. Not reassuring,    though. 	


 

 I am surprised that some of the guys did not pick up on this so here  goes.

 If you do not have strong return springs on your pedals then you can expect  the rudder to flutter if you remove your feet. In my case, there are no springs,  instead there is a return cable loop.  It works well but if you take your  feet off the pedals you can expect  a flutter to start soon.

 Also, when Bryan Melborn builds Fireflys he always puts the same tab on the  rudder from the get go. According to him it works every time. When he recovered  my Firefly he puts his standard tab on the rudder and it work perfectly.

  

 Steve

 Firefly on Floats

  [quote][b]

jsflan(at)valornet.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:17 pm Post subject: rectifying problems maybe

Steve and others,

 After watching the questions raised and  info returned immediately and as Kolbers get fly home and time to check this  forum, I have learned to lay low until the volley subsides, but already (a bit  of creative humor included) good thinking based on the experts' treatment,  personal successes and trial and error,  has been reflected. I'll read a  while longer. Maybe ask for some more specifics. Such as, my being new to  Kolbs, haven't sorted out  Bryon or what his standard tab is.  Or  if it is suitable to the Mark III. Thanks, all.

  

 jsf

 [quote]   ---

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:47 pm Post subject: rectifying problems maybe

That is why my MKIII has a counterbalance on the rudder as well as on the  ailerons. Not just a slight flutter, more like "Your boom tube is now a sine  wave" and the rudder pedals are moving to the stops in both directions flutter.  Some rudder flutter is fairly common for Kolbs, but mine was absurd. And  probably very bad for the airframe...

 Picture here:

 http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg6.htm

 Richard Pike

 MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

Steve Boetto

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 365

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:20 pm Post subject: rectifying problems maybe

In a message dated 10/3/2006 7:17:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  jsflan(at)valornet.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		   haven't sorted out  Bryon or what his standard tab is.    	


 

 jsf,

 Bryan Melborn does the Quickbuilds, Complete Build Ultra Light and Builder  Assist for TNK. He has built more Kolb Components and complete Firefly ULs than  all of us combined. He also does the Builder Support for Kolb and holds more EAA  Grand Champion Trophys than I like to think about. He is also a Great  Guy.  If he tells you something about a Kolb, You can take it the Bank.  TNK  Builder Support is 606 682 3388. Give Bryan a call.

  

 Steve

 FireFly 007 on Floats

  

  [quote][b]

jsflan(at)valornet.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:55 pm Post subject: rectifying problems maybe

Thanks, I think Travis said this  man  built Ray Foster's Kolb, jpg attached. It is a perfect  beauty.

 jsf

  

 do not archive

 [quote]   ---

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Steve Boetto

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 365

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:48 am Post subject: rectifying problems maybe

In a message dated 10/3/2006 10:56:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  jsflan(at)valornet.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Travis said this man  built    Ray Foster's Kolb, jpg attached. It is a perfect beauty.

   jsf

    

   do not  archive

	


 

 j,

 Travis is probably right, I see the classic Melborn hand grips on the wing  tips. Give Bryan a call and he will give you the size and position tab to try.  Compare that to your other research and I think you will be successful.

  

  

 Steve

  [quote][b]

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