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Screwup: ends of trimtab not dimpled

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PFolbrecht(at)starkinvest
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:33 am Post subject: Screwup: ends of trimtab not dimpled

Well, I'm just burning up the list here lately with my errors.  This is going to be the last one in a while!

 

 The last thing was just a bad rivet but this is a bit more serious.  I was admiring how well my tribtab turned out last night - nearly perfect - and thinking about the very last task, riveting the ends closed.  (That bad rivet I posted about actually was on the elevator trimtab spar, not the trimtab).  Well, as the subject says, I realized I'd never dimpled those holes.  This is a pretty big problem as it is closed up.

 

 I could unbend the ends and do it - this is likely to cause a lot of stress to the metal, and also would be quite difficult.  I started to do it and realized I'd probably ruin the peice.

 

 Other than that is there any solution?  Any dimpling process at all that calls for access to only one side?  My pop-rivet dimpling tool got me out of a similar bind once, but you do need access to both sides for that.

 

 I could live with round rivets on the inboard end - cosmetic only - but the outboard end needs to be flush for clearance.

 

 Paul

 9A QB #1176

 Close to finishing empennage

    

  

  

  

 This transmission contains information for the exclusive use of the intended recipient and may be privileged, confidential and/or otherwise protected from disclosure.  Any unauthorized review or distribution is strictly prohibited.  Our company is required to retain electronic mail messages, which may be produced at the request of regulators or in connection with litigation. Electronic messages cannot be guaranteed to be secure, timely or error-free.  As such, we recommend that you do not send confidential information to us via electronic mail. This communication is for informational purposes only and is not an offer or solicitation to buy or sell any investment product.  Any information regarding specific investment products is subject to change without notice.  If you received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete this message and any attachments from your system.

  [quote][b]

Bob Collins

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:29 am Post subject: Screwup: ends of trimtab not dimpled

Paul,  are you talking about the sides of the trim tab...the inboard edge? (and I guess  the outboad one too).

  

 I  didn't either and just went out to look at it and realized the blind rivets  called out suggested I should.

  

 But  I'm not worried about it. I made sure there was a 1/4" gap (I  think) as  Orndorrff reminded me in his video to be sure nothing hit anything, and it  won't. It may be close, but it won't.

  

 There's no way I'm rebuilding the trim tab and I don't see any reason why  I should, in the absence of an interference issue.

  

 Bob  Collins

 St.  Paul

 RV  Builder's Hotline

 http://home.comcast.net/~rvnewsletter/

 [quote]   

   --

_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/

Mark Phillips in TN

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 431
Location: Columbia, TN

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:35 am Post subject: Screwup: ends of trimtab not dimpled

In a message dated 10/05/2006 9:35:50 AM Central Daylight Time, PFolbrecht(at)starkinvestments.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Other than that is there any solution?  Any dimpling process at all that calls for access to only one side?  My pop-rivet dimpling tool got me out of a similar bind once, but you do need access to both sides for that. 	


 >>>

  

 Hi Paul-

  

 You might be able to get a wood dowel (or aluminum if ya got it) about 1/2" diameter and drill a hole in one end to accept the female dimple die- tape the die to the dowel and stick it in the opposite end of the tab (which is not riveted yet- just spread it apart at the spar side til you can get the dowel inside) then position the male die through the hole in the tab and into the female die.  Tap lightly on the male die and see what happens...

  

 You also may be able to tape the poprivet die and nail to the end of a smaller dowel or piece of coat hangar wire and fish it into the hole from the other end until you can grab it...

  

 From The PossumWorks in TN

 Mark Phillips

  

  [quote][b]

_________________
From The PossumWorks...

recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:35 am Post subject: Screwup: ends of trimtab not dimpled

I've used the pop-rivet dimple die parts with a nut/bolt combo.  Still requires a little access to the behind - but not as much.



--

smittysrv

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 67

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:48 am Post subject: Screwup: ends of trimtab not dimpled

Hi Paul,



Assuming that you haven't riveted the trim tab spar in place, you should be

able to use Averys #30 pop-rivet dimple dies to dimple both holes, probably

both holes with one squeeze. I'm not sure (and can't remember), but I think

I just opened the skin just enough to pop-rivet dimple the holes separately.



Here's my entry:



http://www.smittysrv.com/more_stuff.asp?ID=310



Sorry if this is not what you are looking for.



Smitty

http://SmittysRV.com

 



Original Message:

-----------------

From: Folbrecht, Paul PFolbrecht(at)starkinvestments.com

Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 09:30:42 -0500

To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Screwup: ends of trimtab not dimpled

Well, I'm just burning up the list here lately with my errors.  This is

going to be the last one in a while!



The last thing was just a bad rivet but this is a bit more serious.  I was

admiring how well my tribtab turned out last night - nearly perfect - and

thinking about the very last task, riveting the ends closed.  (That bad

rivet I posted about actually was on the elevator trimtab spar, not the

trimtab).  Well, as the subject says, I realized I'd never dimpled those

holes.  This is a pretty big problem as it is closed up.



I could unbend the ends and do it - this is likely to cause a lot of stress

to the metal, and also would be quite difficult.  I started to do it and

realized I'd probably ruin the peice.



Other than that is there any solution?  Any dimpling process at all that

calls for access to only one side?  My pop-rivet dimpling tool got me out

of a similar bind once, but you do need access to both sides for that.



I could live with round rivets on the inboard end - cosmetic only - but the

outboard end needs to be flush for clearance.



Paul

9A QB #1176

Close to finishing empennage

 

 

 

This transmission contains information for the exclusive use of the

intended recipient and may be privileged, confidential and/or otherwise

protected from disclosure.  Any unauthorized review or distribution is

strictly prohibited.  Our company is required to retain electronic mail

messages, which may be produced at the request of regulators or in

connection with litigation. Electronic messages cannot be guaranteed to be

secure, timely or error-free.  As such, we recommend that you do not send

confidential information to us via electronic mail. This communication is

for informational purposes only and is not an offer or solicitation to buy

or sell any investment product.  Any information regarding specific

investment products is subject to change without notice.  If you received

this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by return

e-mail and delete this message and any attachments from your system.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

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_________________
Smittys RV-9A
SmittysRV.com

jfogarty(at)tds.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:46 am Post subject: Screwup: ends of trimtab not dimpled

Paul,



I think you will still have enough room with the pop-rivets, I did the same 

thing on my trim tab outboard end and it looks okay and I think the 

clearance is just fine.  If you were to look at the clearance on our 

Cardinal between the stabilator and the tailcone there is hardly any room at 

all between the round headed screw and the moving stabilator.  Certainly 

less than on the RV trim tab.  Also, if you need to build a new trim tab the 

complete kit for the trim tab is about $50.00.  I have built two so far.



Keep on riveting, you are almost done with the empennage.



Jim Fogarty

---

webmaster(at)flion.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:52 am Post subject: Screwup: ends of trimtab not dimpled

My $.02: Use a manual deburring tool to lightly counter sink the outermost tab on each end.  Then allow the soft CS4-4 to do its bit by conforming to the surface.  You should end up with a fairly smooth rivet and most of your clearance.  For looks and extra strength, you might use a bit of epoxy around the rivet, but be careful not to sand into the rivet when smoothing the area.  Once painted, no one (except us) will know.  

   

Pat Kelley - RV-6A on hiatus again while in school.  

   

         

  

From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Folbrecht, Paul

 Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 7:31 AM

 To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Screwup: ends of trimtab not dimpled  

  

     

Well, I'm just burning up the list here lately with my errors.  This is going to be the last one in a while!

 

 The last thing was just a bad rivet but this is a bit more serious.  I was admiring how well my tribtab turned out last night - nearly perfect - and thinking about the very last task, riveting the ends closed.  (That bad rivet I posted about actually was on the elevator trimtab spar, not the trimtab).  Well, as the subject says, I realized I'd never dimpled those holes.  This is a pretty big problem as it is closed up.

 

 I could unbend the ends and do it - this is likely to cause a lot of stress to the metal, and also would be quite difficult.  I started to do it and realized I'd probably ruin the peice.

 

 Other than that is there any solution?  Any dimpling process at all that calls for access to only one side?  My pop-rivet dimpling tool got me out of a similar bind once, but you do need access to both sides for that.

 

 I could live with round rivets on the inboard end - cosmetic only - but the outboard end needs to be flush for clearance.

 

 Paul

 9A QB #1176

 

   

  [quote] [b]

paul.folbrecht(at)veribox
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:16 pm Post subject: Screwup: ends of trimtab not dimpled

Thanks for all the replies.  Yes, it was *completely* closed up so  

there was simply no way to get to the other side.



This is what I did.  I used CS4-4s, and they did seat in a bit - sort  

of self-dimple - as I was expected.  I then used a die-grinder to  

just lightly deburr the head to make it as low-profile as possible.   

(These rivets are, of course, completely non-structural.)



Still, I just *barely* get clearance, and I mean barely, with the  

slight amount of hinge play completely against me - because I also  

didn't have enough clearance there to begin with.  I have maybe  

1/64th between the rivet head and the elevator stiffeners, and also  

another place where the side bulges just a bit.



But I think it's good.  Nothing is going to jam it.  I called  

Van's... they thought it fine too and pointed out that the -9(A) can  

be safely flown and landed even with full down trim (not that I'd be  

crazy about trying that).  There is no way it can bind even, as I  

said, with the hinge pushed all the way outboard (there is maybe  

1/32" of play).



If the DAR has a problem with it - and that is possible - I could  

just slice the whole end of the trim tab off and stick a foam end  

"rib" in there.



Paul

9A QB #1176

Soon to hook up the empennage control surfaces...

webmaster(at)flion.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:40 pm Post subject: Screwup: ends of trimtab not dimpled

If you have so little gap, maybe you could put the tab on end on a pine

block and gently (gently!) square or concave the ends slightly with a rubber

mallet. And if it's a case of hinge play, a thin section of plastic (UHMW?)

might keep the edges from binding.



Pat Kelley



--

steve(at)newtech.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:19 pm Post subject: Screwup: ends of trimtab not dimpled

Just cut off the tabs, clean up the edges and make an end rib.  dimple 

the skin and rib then rivet together.  I didn't even mess with the 

chintzy tabs, went straight to an end rib.



Steve Eberhart

RV-7A, Finish kit gets delivered next month



Patrick Kelley wrote:

[quote] 



 If you have so little gap, maybe you could put the tab on end on a pine

 block and gently (gently!) square or concave the ends slightly with a rubber

 mallet. And if it's a case of hinge play, a thin section of plastic (UHMW?)

 might keep the edges from binding.



 Pat Kelley



 --

bicyclop(at)pacbell.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:07 pm Post subject: Screwup: ends of trimtab not dimpled

I was having trouble getting the ends bent right so I just cut 'em off

and bent up a little baby rib for each end out of .032. Looks like it

should have been that way all along.



Pax,



Ed 



--

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