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Wheelers & Licence in Australia

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rexjan(at)bigpond.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:18 pm Post subject: Wheelers & Licence in Australia

Now that you  mentioned it, Jose, I recall asking him 

about wheel landings early on during  instruction, and he said we'd get 

to that later. Maybe I'd better mention it  to him. : )



 Hi ! Lynn,

                   when I did my taildragger endorsement I think we are supposed to demonstrate 2  wheeler landings here in Australia. However my instructor is dead against  wheelers in a tail dragger but he did ask me one day if I wanted to try. I  thought it would be an interesting challenge so I said yes. As we touched down  first time I instincively pulled the stick back for a second only to realise  as I did it that it was the wrong thing so that one was messed up. Well I  tried 2 more and was getting better but not good and he said that was enough.  Later as we walked back into the club rooms someone asked us how the wheelers  went and my intructor said they were not too bad but I think he was just being  very kind to me. Anyway I would say forget the stupid things as being practical  but they certainly are an interesting challenge for fun. Just my opinion  !

  

 Just one more  question: Are you checked out for one type of aircraft 

 	  Quote: 	
		   at the time?  E.g. my Norwegian ultralight license is valid for the 

 taildragger  Kitfox and nosewheel Rans. Any new check-ride will be 

 written in my  pilot's logbook, signed by an inspector.

  
	


 Michel,

                here in Australia we have a licence either with a tricycle only restriction or a  licence with that restriction removed thus allowing flying a tail dragger.  However our licence also mentions 3 axis control, radio licence and cross  country. So my licence with the restriction removed allows me to fly any  ultralight but in fact. I trained in a Jabiru tricycle for my restricted then  promptly continued in my Kitfox to get that restriction removed and these are  really the only two planes I have flown.

                                                                                                                                             Rex from Australia.

   [quote][b]

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janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 1:08 am Post subject: Wheelers & Licence in Australia

Wow now, can't agree that wheelers have no good purpose. When the conditions 

are testy this is when the wheeler has its place. When the a/c is stalling 

(fully stalled landing) it goes through a period when you have little 

control as roll authority is all but gone, poor forward vis and sideways 

drift during x/winds etc. A wheeled landing, the a/c is still flying and one 

has good control allowing for a crisp flight to ground contact and ability 

to maintain ground contact and good braking. 90% of my landings are wheelers 

as I like to have total control of my wee beast until we are totally 

stopped..

From: "Rex Shaw" <rexjan(at)bigpond.com>

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Wheelers & Licence in Australia

Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 08:46:39 -0700



Now that you mentioned it, Jose, I recall asking him

about wheel landings early on during instruction, and he said we'd get

to that later. Maybe I'd better mention it to him. : )



Hi ! Lynn,

                  when I did my taildragger endorsement I think we are 

supposed to demonstrate 2 wheeler landings here in Australia. However my 

instructor is dead against wheelers in a tail dragger but he did ask me one 

day if I wanted to try. I thought it would be an interesting challenge so I 

said yes. As we touched down first time I instincively pulled the stick back 

for a second only to realise as I did it that it was the wrong thing so that 

one was messed up. Well I tried 2 more and was getting better but not good 

and he said that was enough. Later as we walked back into the club rooms 

someone asked us how the wheelers went and my intructor said they were not 

too bad but I think he was just being very kind to me. Anyway I would say 

forget the stupid things as being practical but they certainly are an 

interesting challenge for fun. Just my opinion !



Just one more question: Are you checked out for one type of aircraft

 > at the time? E.g. my Norwegian ultralight license is valid for the

 > taildragger Kitfox and nosewheel Rans. Any new check-ride will be

 > written in my pilot's logbook, signed by an inspector.



Michel,

               here in Australia we have a licence either with a tricycle 

only restriction or a licence with that restriction removed thus allowing 

flying a tail dragger. However our licence also mentions 3 axis control, 

radio licence and cross country. So my licence with the restriction removed 

allows me to fly any ultralight but in fact. I trained in a Jabiru tricycle 

for my restricted then promptly continued in my Kitfox to get that 

restriction removed and these are really the only two planes I have flown.

                                                                             

                                                                Rex from 

Australia.



_________________________________________________________________

Become a fitness fanatic (at)  http://xtramsn.co.nz/health

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cliffh(at)outdrs.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:37 am Post subject: Wheelers & Licence in Australia

My Speedster has marginal elevator control for three piont landings. Nearly 

all of my landings are wheel landings.



Floran H.

---

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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:49 am Post subject: Wheelers & Licence in Australia

John,  Just one thought on the wheel landings as you describe them.  At the 

point where there is not enough elevator authority to keep the tail up, you 

also lose rudder authority until the tail wheel is on the ground - maybe a 

couple of seconds.  Bad things can happen then too.



It sounds like pretty much a wash to me - a matter of argument, I guess, and 

of personal preference.  I have heard good convincing arguments for both 

landing techniques in all sorts of conditions.  The group I fly with in the 

back country all land full stall.  The guys fly mostly Kitfoxes, but there 

is a Rans mix in there too.



Lowell



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Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:56 am Post subject: Wheelers & Licence in Australia

On Oct 8, 2006, at 5:46 PM, Rex Shaw wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    here in Australia we have a licence either with a tricycle only 

 restriction or a licence with that restriction removed thus allowing 

 flying a tail dragger.


	


Hello Rex,

Does the Australian utralight class differs from the European one?



Cheers,

Michel



do not archive

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_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:57 am Post subject: Wheelers & Licence in Australia

On Oct 8, 2006, at 3:36 PM, Floran Higgins wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   My Speedster has marginal elevator control for three piont landings. 

 Nearly all of my landings are wheel landings.


	


Have you tried gap-sealing the elevator, Floran? It did the trick for 

my model 3.



Cheers,

Michel

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_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:43 am Post subject: Wheelers & Licence in Australia

Guys, take a look at the Alaskian clips of landing in river beds etc. No 

stalled landings there...Aerial topderssing here in NZ on short sloping 

strips strips with cross tail winds you don't stall on I tell you..

Not that I'm knocking stalled landings, just that when the going gets tough/ 

rough and you have to land right there, right then...wheeler it is.

From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net>

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Wheelers & Licence in Australia

Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 08:48:17 -0700






John,  Just one thought on the wheel landings as you describe them.  At the 

point where there is not enough elevator authority to keep the tail up, you 

also lose rudder authority until the tail wheel is on the ground - maybe a 

couple of seconds.  Bad things can happen then too.



It sounds like pretty much a wash to me - a matter of argument, I guess, and 

of personal preference.  I have heard good convincing arguments for both 

landing techniques in all sorts of conditions.  The group I fly with in the 

back country all land full stall.  The guys fly mostly Kitfoxes, but there 

is a Rans mix in there too.



Lowell



---

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Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:32 pm Post subject: Wheelers & Licence in Australia

I'm not sure if the problem my Speedster had on its' first flights is 

the same as you're having, but mine floated too much to get down. I was 

told this by the test pilot. We dropped the horizontal stab to the 

lowest point that it would go and re-drilled the mounting holes. Then 

we closed the gap with tape, and then I added about 3 inches of trim 

tab to the existing electric elevator trim. While the addition of the 

trim tab didn't do anything for the elevator authority (I don't think), 

it helped with relieving stick pressures.



Lynn

Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200



On Sunday, October 8, 2006, at 09:36  AM, Floran Higgins wrote:



[quote] 



 My Speedster has marginal elevator control for three piont landings. 

 Nearly all of my landings are wheel landings.



 Floran H.

 ---

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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

cliffh(at)outdrs.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:54 am Post subject: Wheelers & Licence in Australia

My Speedster has the elevator gap sealed. I have plenty of control no flap 

but becomes margional with full flaps. As all of my landings are full flap I 

perfer to make wheel landing as I feel I have more control.

Sorry I am so slow in answering this as the Hard drive went out of my 

computer and I am just now getting back on line.



Floran H.

---

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