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Wheel Landings - Lynn - more input

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dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:51 pm Post subject: Wheel Landings - Lynn - more input

I am not familiar with the checkout that you are getting but I would like an 

instructor to be able to teach me as much as possible on every flight and 

with indepth training on the different  takeoffs and landings that you will 

have to do sometimes and at the most in-opportune times.   Practice might 

not make perfect but it will certainly be an attribute both you and your 

plane when put in many different scenarios.

eg  short field take off and landing with 75 foot trees at both ends of 1200 

foot strips.

 -  soft field  and even some mild off field or at least grass runways.

 -  forced approaches

 - slow flight, clean and with various flaps at near stall speed  eg if you 

stall at 35 IAS then fly at 38 IAS  and be able to show that you have 

positive control.

 - and sure wheel landings as well as being able to land in one wheel and 

run straight down the runway on one main only.



I might seem a bit critical but when you need to know it it good the know 

that you can do it and is a great confidence builder.



Dave



---

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Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:42 am Post subject: Wheel Landings - Lynn - more input

I just spoke with my instructor about wheel landings, and he said that 

we will get to that when I'm more advanced in my training. He said that 

the examiner will not ask me to demonstrate this technique. So I will 

wait until I'm told that I'm ready for it.



That being said, here is the word of Edward S. Downs, in his book "The 

Kitfox Pilot's Guide":



  "Crosswind landings can be accomplished with the long-standing 

techniques of using aileron into the wind and opposite rudder to 

maintain runway alignment. The crosswind limit of a Kitfox, any model 

or series, is 15 knots. A 15 knot crosswind can be adequately handled 

with a full stall landing, THE RECOMMENDED TECHNIQUE" (my emphasis). 

Later on, he mentions wheel landings, but warns "one can run into 

trouble when lowering the tail. The vertical tail has less airspeed 

when being lowered after a wheel landing than it does when making a 

full stall landing. This lower airspeed (actually, ground speed by the 

time the tail is being lowered) results in less directional control 

coupled with airflow interference from the fuselage. In short, control 

can be lost while the tail is being lowered."



I won't quote any further so as to not step on any copyright laws, but 

you get the drift, no pun intended. : )....crosswind, drift....oh, me, 

oh,my....



Back to my instructor's comments: "when you lower the wing on the 

upwind side, you are inducing adverse yaw which counteracts the 

weathervaning effects of the wind on the side of the fuselage"  

Actually, those were my words back to him when he asked me: "Why do you 

lower the wing on the upwind side, and if you answer 'to keep the wind 

from raising the wing', I'm gonna slap you". When I gave him the right 

answer, he said "I could kiss you right on the lips".....thank God this 

was a phone conversation.  : )



Lynn

Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200

On Tuesday, October 10, 2006, at 07:50  PM, Dave wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I am not familiar with the checkout that you are getting but I would 

 like an instructor to be able to teach me as much as possible on every 

 flight and with indepth training on the different  takeoffs and 

 landings that you will have to do sometimes and at the most 

 in-opportune times.   Practice might not make perfect but it will 

 certainly be an attribute both you and your plane when put in many 

 different scenarios.

 eg  short field take off and landing with 75 foot trees at both ends 

 of 1200 foot strips.

 -  soft field  and even some mild off field or at least grass runways.

 -  forced approaches

 - slow flight, clean and with various flaps at near stall speed  eg if 

 you stall at 35 IAS then fly at 38 IAS  and be able to show that you 

 have positive control.

 - and sure wheel landings as well as being able to land in one wheel 

 and run straight down the runway on one main only.



 I might seem a bit critical but when you need to know it it good the 

 know that you can do it and is a great confidence builder.



 Dave

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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

wingnut

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:46 am Post subject: Re: Wheel Landings - Lynn - more input

 	  Quote: 	
		  "when you lower the wing on the upwind side, you are inducing adverse yaw which counteracts the weathervaning effects of the wind on the side of the fuselage" 	


I thought it was to induce a slip into the wind to counteract the wind pushing the plane off the center of the runway...

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Aerobatics(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:32 pm Post subject: Wheel Landings - Lynn - more input

That's a pretty good source .............  I just loaned my copy  out...  I would go with that  than us internet experts...LOL 

  

 Bottom line, get training, build your proficiency and keep current in  your particular airplane.... oh oh...  and have fun! 

  

 Dave Patrick

 KF 2  

  

 In a message dated 10/11/2006 10:47:08 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  lynnmatt(at)jps.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I just    spoke with my instructor about wheel landings, and he said that 

we will    get to that when I'm more advanced in my training. He said that 

the    examiner will not ask me to demonstrate this technique. So I will 

wait    until I'm told that I'm ready for it.



That being said, here is the word    of Edward S. Downs, in his book "The 

Kitfox Pilot's Guide":



     "Crosswind landings can be accomplished with the long-standing 

techniques    of using aileron into the wind and opposite rudder to 

maintain runway    alignment. The crosswind limit of a Kitfox, any model 

or series, is 15    knots. A 15 knot crosswind can be adequately handled 

with a full stall    landing, THE RECOMMENDED TECHNIQUE" (my emphasis). 

Later on, he mentions    wheel landings, but warns "one can run into 

trouble when lowering the    tail. The vertical tail has less airspeed 

when being lowered after a wheel    landing than it does when making a 

full stall landing. This lower airspeed    (actually, ground speed by the 

time the tail is being lowered) results in    less directional control 

coupled with airflow interference from the    fuselage. In short, control 

can be lost while the tail is being    lowered."



I won't quote any further so as to not step on any copyright    laws, but 

you get the drift, no pun intended. : )....crosswind,    drift....oh, me, 

oh,my....



Back to my instructor's comments: "when    you lower the wing on the 

upwind side, you are inducing adverse yaw which    counteracts the 

weathervaning effects of the wind on the side of the    fuselage"  

Actually, those were my words back to him when he asked    me: "Why do you 

lower the wing on the upwind side, and if you answer 'to    keep the wind 

from raising the wing', I'm gonna slap you". When I gave him    the right 

answer, he said "I could kiss you right on the lips".....thank    God this 

was a phone conversation.  : )



Lynn

Kitfox IV    Speedster...Jabiru 2200

	


 

  

  [quote][b]

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