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Left turning tendency

 
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jpm7940(at)sbcglobal.net
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:31 pm    Post subject: Left turning tendency Reply with quote

My Model IV-1200 speedster has a slight tendency to turn to the left which requires some right stick pressure. If pressure is held the ball stays right in the middle with feet off the pedals. I tried turning the left rear strut in 1, 2, and then 3 turns with limited results. I then set the left one at 2 turns and turned the right out 2 turns. The result was that there was still the tendancy to turn left but I also had to add a little right rudder to keep the ball in line. What do you suggest, change the adjustment of the flapperons? John May [quote][b]

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Float Flyr



Joined: 19 Jul 2006
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Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:19 pm    Post subject: Left turning tendency Reply with quote

How does the plane behave in a stall? Changes in the washout of the wing should be tested, at altitude, as they are accomplished so you won't run into any surprises.



Noel [quote]
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:36 pm    Post subject: Left turning tendency Reply with quote

The changes don't seem to seem to have made any change in stall recovery. John May

Noel Loveys <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> wrote: [quote] How does the plane behave in a stall? Changes in the washout of the wing should be tested, at altitude, as they are accomplished so you won't run into any surprises.


Noel
[quote]
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Guy Buchanan



Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:15 pm    Post subject: Left turning tendency Reply with quote

At 06:29 PM 11/9/2006, you wrote:
Quote:
My Model IV-1200 speedster has a slight tendency to turn to the left which
requires some right stick pressure.

John,
How dependent is the stick pressure on speed? If highly dependent,
then you probably have a rigging problem. If not very dependent then you
probably have a mass / CG problem. I might try some throttle-off dives,
slowly pitching in and then out to see how the stick force and deflection
angle vary. Try to measure the stick angle by attaching a piece of masking
tape to the bottom of the instrument panel and taping a pencil or other
pointer to the top of the stick. Obviously you'll want to do it in still air.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.


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Jim Shumaker



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:28 pm    Post subject: Left turning tendency Reply with quote

Hi John

Put the wing rig back to where you only had to hold a little stick pressure. Then level the wings by adding a trim tab to the flaperon. If you want to test this solution before adding a trim tab just put a little weather stripping on the bottom trailing edge of the left flaperon. This will have the same effect as adding a trim tab It acts by lifting the trialing edge slightly turning the left flaperon down slightly.� This is a common trick in aviation. I have seen it used on profesional aerobatic planes and on factory built turboprop planes like the Pilatus.

Jim Shumaker
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:53 pm    Post subject: Left turning tendency Reply with quote

The plane was hanging on the left wing!
You want the left aileron down and right one up.

If the rigging didn't have any effect it might be so that the flapperons isn't symmetric, just a small deflection on the trailing edge of the aileron7flaperon can have this effect.

Jan
[quote] ---


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Michel



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:22 pm    Post subject: Left turning tendency Reply with quote

On Nov 10, 2006, at 5:27 AM, James Shumaker wrote:
Quote:
Then level the wings by adding a trim tab to the flaperon.

John, I had the same problem and I did what Jim says. It's all fine and
dandy now.

Cheers,
Michel


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:25 pm    Post subject: Left turning tendency Reply with quote

I will do some testing but off hand I would say stick pressure increases with speed. Assuming it is a rigging problem where do you suggest I start.

Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com> wrote: [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan

At 06:29 PM 11/9/2006, you wrote:
Quote:
My Model IV-1200 speedster has a slight tendency to turn to the left which
requires some right stick pressure.


How dependent is the stick pressure on speed? If highly dependent,
then you probably have a rigging problem. If not very dependent then you
probably have a mass / CG problem.

============================================================

[b]


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kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:37 pm    Post subject: Left turning tendency Reply with quote

I went through a series of adjustment for the same characteristic. while a trim tab works I was not enthralled with the notion. The following is close as I remember it 1) level fuselage-measure dihedral,check outboard wing incidence. 2) after assessing the above make the necessary adjustment to "zero" everything in rig left and right. If characteristic continues utilize a combination right front/left rear and left front/right rear. When complete check washout, dihedral etc. The front and rear adjustments are not orthogenal because of the geometry but it is unlikely that you will see significant handly changes as you approach the point of no pressure needed.

These light airplanes are load sensitive..while you are testing lean way to the right, forward and back to experience attitude change.

John Kerr
725 hrs.

[quote]-------------- Original message --------------
From: JOHN May <jpm7940(at)sbcglobal.net>
I will do some testing but off hand I would say stick pressure increases with speed. Assuming it is a rigging problem where do you suggest I start.

Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com> wrote:
Quote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan

At 06:29 PM 11/9/2006, you wrote:
Quote:
My Model IV-1200 speedster has a slight tendency to turn to the left which
requires some right stick pressure.


How dependent is the stick pressure on speed? If highly dependent,
then you probably have a rigging problem. If not very dependent then you
probably have a mass / CG problem.

============================================================


[b]


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Guy Buchanan



Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:38 pm    Post subject: Left turning tendency Reply with quote

At 11:25 PM 11/9/2006, you wrote:
Quote:
I will do some testing but off hand I would say stick pressure increases
with speed. Assuming it is a rigging problem where do you suggest I start.

I can think of two things causing aerodynamic roll resulting in
stick pressure. One is wing twist, which you've already investigated. The
other is flying sideways. (Now before you scoff at the latter, be advised
that my Kitfox flies sideways quite nicely.) For the former I would
carefully check the wings on the ground by levelling the aircraft
athwartships, and then use a jigged level to measure the angle of incidence
at the root, strut attach point, and at the tip of my wings. Because of
dihedral you will have to be very careful that the level is parallel to
centerline while making these measurements. It's even easier if you can
come up with a laser level.
As to flying sideways I'd first measure from the wing tips to the
rudder post to make sure one wing isn't leading. Then I'd level the
fuselage athwartships and check, using a water or laser level, that the
dihedral is identical both sides. (Also check that the empennage is
vertical / horizontal. If the HS is not level, then HS forces will
translate into lateral movement of the tail.) While levelled I would then
check the ball to make sure it's centered. (I did the first half of my PP
training in a 152 with a TC one ball off center; drove my instructor crazy,
as she thought it was me.) Finally you must check to see that the engine is
pointed in the right direction. Personally I think the engine should be on
centerline, but others may correct me. (I vaguely remember running model
airplane engines angled off to correct "torque".) I would check this by
first measuring from the prop hub centerline to a reference on either side.
The hard part is then to pick a similar reference point on the back of the
engine, either something you know is on centerline, or two points you know
are equal distance from centerline. (Engine mounts are often centerline
symmetric.) The error front and rear should be the same. (It matters less
if the engine is off centerline than if it is pointed right or left of center.)
These measurements shouldn't take very long and will give you some
comfort that your plane is rigged correctly. I tried to think of a quick,
trick, way of doing this via airborne testing, but couldn't come up with
anything definitive that would segregate the possible cause.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.


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