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TEST FLYING...WAS-First Flight N422NL

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dan(at)azshowersolutions.
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:59 am Post subject: TEST FLYING...WAS-First Flight N422NL

Awesome Joel! This must be a rewarding time in your life. I appreciate your openness in letting us know you chose to have an experienced pilot do your first flight. As I am still building, I don't think a week goes by that I fight with myself on this somewhat personal topic. As a low-time pilot (85 hrs in C-172's) would I be ready to take on a plane that "fly's before you are ready"? The options are to get some transition training and hope everything feels the same or... have an experienced Kitfoxer or professional test pilot take it up. The rebuttal on this thinking is sometimes posed as "I would never have anyone test-fly a plane that I built". This statement certainly has merrit, however, which is the wise option?

   

   I recently looked into life insurance from one of the aviation-savy outfits. I found it interesting (as I was answering preliminary questions over the phone) that he would ask if I will be the test pilot.  I said I hadn't decided and he moved on. I am assuming the premium would be higher If I did it. I thought I would throw this topic out there to see how others who have gone before have dealt with it. 

  Dan B.

  Mesa   314DW

   

   

   

Noel Loveys <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> wrote:

  [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" 



I'll never forget my first solo. I don't think I've ever been so nervous.

I also won't ever forget my first flight in my Kitfox III-A. The C172 lost

all it's appeal in about 5 seconds. The wow factor is still fantastic.



Noel



[quote] --

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pulsair(at)mindspring.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:05 am Post subject: TEST FLYING...WAS-First Flight N422NL

Any pictures? We love pictures!!!!  Jeff

 [quote]   ---

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Joel

Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 57
Location: Bremerton, WA USA

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: TEST FLYING...WAS-First Flight N422NL

I made the decision to use a more experieced pilot early on in my project. It's not that I have little experience; 500+ hours over 20+ years with an instrument rating but most of that time has been in 4 place Cessnas (172, 177 & 182) and I only recently earned a tailwheel endorsement. Pat has flown hundreds of types and has hundreds of hours in tailwheel planes. He has other 'first flight' experience and having flown lots of aircraft being returned to flight from extensive service has plenty of truly experimental flight time.  If something was seriously wrong with control handling he is much better prepared to handle the situation than I am. Now that he has given the handling his favorable comments I feel much better about taking her up myself.  I'm editing some very rough video of the first flight to a short clip that will be posted soon.

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_________________
Joel Mapes Kitfox 5 912 ULS Aerocomp amphibs

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 5:29 pm Post subject: TEST FLYING...WAS-First Flight N422NL

At 10:59 AM 10/22/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I thought I would throw this topic out there to see how others who have 

gone before have dealt with it.


	


I had decided to use a test pilot as I did not trust my take-offs and 

landings if there was something wrong with the gear. However everyone I 

talked to suggested I could do it. (I had 250hrs total, 20hrs tail-wheel in 

a Decathlon.) I flew one hour in Alan Nephew's trike IV and something less 

than two in Lowell's conventional IV, including a bunch of landings, to get 

insurance. Then with mine I did the incremental taxi testing, finally 

running up and down the runway at 55mph on the mains. (That's right, well 

over stall,) After that I felt comfortable doing the flight test. I won't 

say it was the right thing to do, but it certainly gave me a thrill!

Guy Buchanan

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

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_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Joel

Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 57
Location: Bremerton, WA USA

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:10 pm Post subject: Re: TEST FLYING...WAS-First Flight N422NL

Attached is a picture from the brief video.

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N422NL_FirstFlight.jpg

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_________________
Joel Mapes Kitfox 5 912 ULS Aerocomp amphibs

dan(at)azshowersolutions.
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:14 am Post subject: TEST FLYING...WAS-First Flight N422NL

Guy,

  Thanks, that was what I was wondering about. So once you did some high speed taxiing you felt good to go...interesting. I can see how that might happen after you confirm rudder and other authorities.

  Thanks for being the one and only response. I was looking for quite a bit more discussion on this. I guess no one else ever dealt with the go-no-go question...ha

  Dan

  Mesa, AZ

  314DW (Building)



Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com> wrote:

  [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan 



At 10:59 AM 10/22/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I thought I would throw this topic out there to see how others who have 

gone before have dealt with it.


	


I had decided to use a test pilot as I did not trust my take-offs and 

landings if there was something [quote][b]

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Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:39 am Post subject: TEST FLYING...WAS-First Flight N422NL

At 07:13 AM 10/23/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Thanks, that was what I was wondering about. So once you did some high 

speed taxiing you felt good to go...interesting. I can see how that might 

happen after you confirm rudder and other authorities.


	


Well, "good to go" may be too optimistic. The taxi testing gave me a good 

feeling the AIRCRAFT was "good to go", at least as far as ground handling 

during take-off and landing was concerned. (That was my strongest concern.) 

As the Kitfox IV was a very proven design, and the CG, decalage, dihedral, 

wing twist, and control throws were well within tolerances, I had little 

concern for any kind of stability problem during flight. (I did a quick 

stability check upon leaving the runway and found no problems, but had they 

surfaced I guess I might have crashed from low altitude, or might have 

gotten it back on the ground. I flew from a 5000' x 150' runway.) I had run 

the engine 4 1/2 hours, much of that at high power, in various attitudes, 

for up to 3/4 hour at a time, so I was not extremely concerned about fuel 

starvation and engine reliability. (Though I gave a lot of thought to my 

exit strategy.)



I think the largest factor in my flying the first flight was that the 

Kitfox was a very proven design, and mine was built very close to spec. And 

speaking very personally, I ultimately did not feel right asking someone 

else to fly an aircraft I had certified as airworthy, but was unwilling to 

fly myself. I guess I felt I had some obligation to accept the risk. 

(Please do not take this as any form of criticism or challenge. I'm 

speaking ONLY of myself. I did not want to watch my plane shed skin or come 

apart and kill some uninterested, though helpful, party.)



Hope this helps. Ultimately I'd make the decision based on how comfortable 

I'd feel in the cockpit on that first flight. I was comfortable, and 

therefore very aware, very conscientious, and very conservative. If you 

know you're going to be a chocolate mess in the cockpit, it's far better to 

let someone else give it a go. Then you'll be able to fly it yourself with 

a much higher comfort level.



Good luck!



Guy Buchanan

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

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_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:03 pm Post subject: TEST FLYING...WAS-First Flight N422NL

My 'Fox is on Aerocet  floats.  I think that makes it quite a bit more docile.  I started off  doing hours of step taxiing.  After to or three times to the pond I had to  lift her off.  Getting back on was a lot more fun because the plane  required a lot of right rudder.  A few more crow hops and I made my first  circuit.  I found I still had to keep considerable pressure on the right  rudder pedal.  I since have put a little tab on my rudder and the plane  flies straight with no rudder fuss.  A bit of practice and I can get it  into some pretty small ponds... just as important...I can get out of them  too!

  

  

 

Noel [quote]   

   --

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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

dan(at)azshowersolutions.
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:54 pm Post subject: TEST FLYING...WAS-First Flight N422NL

Thanks again Guy...good info to ponder.

  Dan



Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com> wrote:

  [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan 



At 07:13 AM 10/23/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Thanks, that was what I was wondering about. So once you did some high 

speed taxiing you felt good to go...interesting. I can see how that might 

happen after you confirm rudder and other authorities.


	


Well, "good to go" may be too optimistic. The taxi testing gave me a good 

feeling the AIRCRAFT was "good to go", at least as far as ground handling 

during take-off and landing was concerned. (That was my strongest concern.) 

As the Kitfox IV was a very proven design, and the CG, decalage, dihedral, 

wing twist, and control throws were well within tolerances, I had little 

concern for any kind  of stability problem during flight. (I did a quick 

stability check upon leaving the runway and found no problems, but had they 

surfaced I guess I might have crashed from low altitude, or might have 

gotten it back on the ground. I flew from a 5000' x 150' runway.) I had run 

the engine 4 1/2 hours, much of that at high power, in various attitudes, 

for up to 3/4 hour at a time, so I was not extremely concerned about fuel 

starvation and engine reliability. (Though I gave a lot of thought to my 

exit strategy.)



I think the largest factor in my flying the first flight was that the 

Kitfox was a very proven design, and mine was built very close to spec. And 

speaking very personally, I ultimately did not feel right asking someone 

else to fly an aircraft I had certified as airworthy, but was unwilling to 

fly myself. I guess I felt I had some obligation to accept the risk. 

(Please do not take this as any form of criticism or [quote][b]

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