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Loose ends of control cables.

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Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:03 am Post subject: Loose ends of control cables.

I've recently finished installing the control cables for the rudder and elevator. I've noticed that the cable starts to unravel at the end and don't want it snagging on anything. 



I saw a Gyro the other day with the same swagged connectors and the builder had safety wired the cables and then covered the ends with epoxy. Seemed like a good idea. Any comments?

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

pacificpainting(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:11 am Post subject: Loose ends of control cables.

How about using shrink tubing? That's what I have done in the past.



---

Trainnut01(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:12 am Post subject: Loose ends of control cables.

I put heat shrink tubing on mine.

 Carroll Jernigan

 do not archive

  [quote][b]

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:36 am Post subject: Re: Loose ends of control cables.

I'd thought about shrink tubeing and have bought some for electrical connections. One question though? will it shrink enough if I use tubing that is large enough to fit over the turnbuckles and other hardware that is already connected?

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

lrm(at)skyhawg.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:38 am Post subject: Loose ends of control cables.

I put a second swage that barley covers the ends.  Added safety and covers 

those skin cutting ends.

Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com

---

John Bolding

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 281

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:59 am Post subject: Loose ends of control cables.

The shrink tubing makes a very neat looking  installation, the only snag is you cover up an inspection point.   Generally a drop of "witness paint" is placed on the wire next to the sleeve to  help identify if the cable is moving within the sleeve, you lose this if you  cover it up. I guess it boils down to comfort level just like everything else.  If you are confident of your swages then use the tubing(I have on all mine  ).LOW&SLOW   John Bolding

  

  

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com (zenith-list(at)matronics.com) 

 [quote]   Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 9:11    AM

   Subject: Re: Loose ends of    control cables.

   



--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting(at)comcast.net (pacificpainting(at)comcast.net)>



How    about using shrink tubing? That's what I have done in the    past.



---

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:48 am Post subject: Re: Loose ends of control cables.

This is one of the reasons I like the epoxy idea. it would act as "witness paint" for the connection. The second swag sounds like a good idea as well. I wish I'd thought of it before I installed the cables and I might well use it on all of the rest. 



I'll be honest the control cables scare more than anything else I've built on the airplane. Not that I think there is anything specifically wrong with the in design it's just the failure of them seems like it has the highest chance of failure to consequences ratio of just about the entire airplane. I'll admit this this is probably me just being a little paranoid but I said it is just a feeling.

[quote="John Bolding"]The shrink tubing makes a very neat looking  installation, the only snag is you cover up an inspection point.   Generally a drop of "witness paint" is placed on the wire next to the sleeve to  help identify if the cable is moving within the sleeve, you lose this if you  cover it up. I guess it boils down to comfort level just like everything else.  If you are confident of your swages then use the tubing(I have on all mine  ).LOW&SLOW   John Bolding

  

  

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com (zenith-list(at)matronics.com) 

  	  Quote: 	
		     Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 9:11    AM

   Subject: Re: Loose ends of    control cables.

   



--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting>



How    about using shrink tubing? That's what I have done in the    past.



---

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:48 am Post subject: Loose ends of control cables.

Could you thread on some heat shrink material before swaging then back it over the free ends and shrink it once the swaging is done?



Ed moody II

---- Gig Giacona <wr.giacona(at)cox.net> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 I've recently finished installing the control cables for the rudder and elevator. I've noticed that the cable starts to unravel at the end and don't want it snagging on anything. 

 

 I saw a Gyro the other day with the same swagged connectors and the builder had safety wired the cables and then covered the ends with epoxy. Seemed like a good idea. Any comments?

 

 --------

 W.R. &quot;Gig&quot; Giacona

 601XL Under Construction

 See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:55 am Post subject: Loose ends of control cables.

Probably not Gig. Go with the wire and epoxy idea at this point.



Ed



---- Gig Giacona <wr.giacona(at)cox.net> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 I'd thought about shrink tubeing and have bought some for electrical connections. One question though? will it shrink enough if I use tubing that is large enough to fit over the turnbuckles and other hardware that is already connected?

 

 --------

 W.R. &quot;Gig&quot; Giacona

 601XL Under Construction

 See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

John Bolding

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 281

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:55 am Post subject: Loose ends of control cables.

Gig, The T-18 uses 3/32 cables (vs 1/8 that  Zenith uses) and I think the Tailwind does as well, make yourself feel  better and make up an assy from cable from Home Depot (cheaper) , using a  come-along or your auto put some serious strain on the cable (keep everybody out  of the way) and then you HAVE PROVEN TO YOURSELF what you are building is  capable of doing the job and you don't have to worry about THAT anymore.  I  made up some cables from 1/16"  once to see if I could break them  using rudder pedals, I couldn't.  John

 [quote]    

   From:    Gig Giacona (wr.giacona(at)cox.net)    

   I'll be honest the control cables scare more    than anything else I've built on the airplane. Not that I think there is    anything specifically wrong with the in design it's just the failure of them    seems like it has the highest chance of failure to consequences ratio of just    about the entire airplane. I'll admit this this is probably me just being a    little paranoid but I said it is just a feeling.

    

[b]

p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:56 am Post subject: Loose ends of control cables.

Hi Gig,



I suppose you are being reasonable to worry about loss of controls 

because of cable failure.  However, I don't think you should lose a 

lot of sleep over this unlikely event.  Even if you do lose one of 

the cables, you still have backup control systems that will allow you 

to fly the plane.  You can use the electric trim systems to control 

pitch and roll,  the aileron and rudder controls back each other up, 

and you can use the throttle to control pitch.



Keep in mind the brilliant DC-10 pilot who managed to land his plane 

with complete control system loss.



Paul

XL fuselage





 	  Quote: 	
		  I'll be honest the control cables scare more than anything else I've 

built on the airplane. Not that I think there is anything 

specifically wrong with the in design it's just the failure of them 

seems like it has the highest chance of failure to consequences 

ratio of just about the entire airplane. I'll admit this this is 

probably me just being a little paranoid but I said it is just a feeling.

Sigmo(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:51 am Post subject: Loose ends of control cables.

I used the shrink tubing that I had left over from my wiring.

  

 Mike Sigman

 601XL

  [quote][b]

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: Loose ends of control cables.

Please don't get me wrong guys. It's not like I'm staying up night thinking about it but it is, as far as I'm concerned, a much more critical failure point than even an engine loss. Admitedly I'm not as concerned as I was now that I took one of the swagged ends and tried to pull it apart with leverage that I think is considerably more than it will ever see in flight.



I had always planned that shortly after first flight to do a practice emergency landing using nothing more than the 4 trim buttons and the throttle just to prove to myself it could be done and what it would feel like to do it. As a matter of fact I decided not to put the larger trim tabs on until after such a test.

 	  p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att wrote: 	
		  Hi Gig,



I suppose you are being reasonable to worry about loss of controls 

because of cable failure.  However, I don't think you should lose a 

lot of sleep over this unlikely event.  Even if you do lose one of 

the cables, you still have backup control systems that will allow you 

to fly the plane.  You can use the electric trim systems to control 

pitch and roll,  the aileron and rudder controls back each other up, 

and you can use the throttle to control pitch.



Keep in mind the brilliant DC-10 pilot who managed to land his plane 

with complete control system loss.



Paul

XL fuselage





 	  Quote: 	
		  I'll be honest the control cables scare more than anything else I've 

built on the airplane. Not that I think there is anything 

specifically wrong with the in design it's just the failure of them 

seems like it has the highest chance of failure to consequences 

ratio of just about the entire airplane. I'll admit this this is 

probably me just being a little paranoid but I said it is just a feeling.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

jean-paul.roy4(at)tlb.sym
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:35 pm Post subject: Loose ends of control cables.

John, I think the idea of using heat shrink tubing  is great. I've seen some transparent ones but can't remember where. It's a  company selling electrical goods.

  

 Jean-Paul

 [quote]   ---

601zv(at)ritternet.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:17 pm Post subject: Loose ends of control cables.

That's all well and good if the control surfaces are handily floating freely 

in the breeze, but what if when a cable unattaches in such a way as to hook 

a contraption on its end like a turnbuckle onto something such that the 

control surface is locked in an extreme position? My old 172 flew quite well 

when elavator control was lost due to the bellcrank pulling loose, but I'd 

hate to be flying anything with the ailerons locked to nearly one extreme or 

the other.



Do not archive.

---

paulrod36(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:30 pm Post subject: Loose ends of control cables.

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Gig, I don't think the average or even not-so-average human being could  exert enough force to slip a swaged cable out of its sleeve, particularly  sitting in a cockpit. A 1/8 cable has a breaking point around 6 or 7 hundred  pounds, if I recall correctly, and even an aluminum turnbuckle from Home Depot  is good for 425 pounds. In order to develop that kind of force on a control  surface, you'd have to achieve a speed that would have removed your wings long  earlier. (somewhat larger problem). Slap a daub of witness paint on it just to  keep the DAR happy, and relax.   Frankly, I think the most likely  control failure would be ripping the upper arm off the elevator, and even that  is unlikely, since it's held on by several "holds 235-pounds in tension" rivets,  and the .040 rear spar strap.

  

 Paul Rodriguez

 601XL/Corvair

 Forever on the canopy

 [quote]   ---

maarten.versteeg(at)swri.
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:41 am Post subject: Loose ends of control cables.

Hello,



I used to fly a hang glider with lots of cables, these where all

swage locked cables that were covered with transparent shrink tube.

Both to prevent bending of the cable ends during setup and breakdown

and to allow inspection. Inspection here is even more important as

the cables are essential to provide structural integrity and the

plane is disassembled after each flight.

I would try to find some of this shrink tube. It would be the best

of both worlds, you prevent the unraveling of the cable that might

get hooked somewhere and you still have the possibility of inspecting

the cable end (witness paint can be used and would be protected and

remain visible).



Regards,

	Maarten

601xl, just started, tail done



 	  Quote: 	
		   Time: 04:30:47 PM PST US

 From: <paulrod36(at)msn.com>

 Subject: Re: Re: Loose ends of control cables.

 

 Gig, I don't think the average or even not-so-average human being coul

 d exert enough force to slip a swaged cable out of its sleeve, particu

 larly sitting in a cockpit. A 1/8 cable has a breaking point around 6 

 or 7 hundred pounds, if I recall correctly, and even an aluminum turnb

 uckle from Home Depot is good for 425 pounds. In order to develop that

  kind of force on a control surface, you'd have to achieve a speed tha

 t would have removed your wings long earlier. (somewhat larger problem

 ). Slap a daub of witness paint on it just to keep the DAR happy, and 

 relax.   Frankly, I think the most likely control failure would be rip

 ping the upper arm off the elevator, and even that is unlikely, since 

 it's held on by several "holds 235-pounds in tension" rivets, and the 

 040 rear spar strap.=0A=0APaul Rodriguez=0A601XL/Corvair


	


-- 

Maarten Versteeg    Southwest Research Institute

Phone: (210)522-5029    P.O. Drawer 28510

Fax: (210)522-5499    San Antonio, TX 78228-0510

ron.butterfield(at)gmail.
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:47 am Post subject: Loose ends of control cables.

On 10/23/06, Jean-Paul Roy <jean-paul.roy4(at)tlb.sympatico.ca> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   John, I think the idea of using heat shrink tubing is great. I've seen some

 transparent ones but can't remember where. It's a company selling electrical

 goods.


	


Here's one:

http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.asp?SKU=708-4327&SEARCH=&MPN=FIT350+3%2F16+6%22&DESC=FIT350+3%2F16+6%22&R=708%2D4327&sid=453D57805AA8E17F

also

http://tinyurl.com/y9w2tn



-- 

Regards,

RonB

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