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Show me the FAR...

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84KF
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:24 pm Post subject: Show me the FAR...

Can anyone tell me where to find the FAR that says as a PVT Pilot I CANNOT fly my Kitfox V under the new Sport Pilot rules. (In other words, after my current medical expires) Please quote only  the FAR(s), not articles by AOPA, EAA, or writers\authors. The FARs are the only things that counts.

I am not interested in changing it from Experimental to LSA, and since it is Experimental  don't use the "as originally certified"  in FAR 1.1 Experimental are not certified by the FAA. That part of the definition is for FAA Certified aircraft such as Cubs, Champs, etc etc... and means that you cannot alter an existing Certified aircraft to now fit the performance rules. 

  Remember now... I will fly under Sport Pilot rules...1320 Max Takeoff weight, Do not confuse this with the term Gross Weight, which is 1400, the amount the aircraft COULD safely lift. The FAA defines Light sport MTOW as

The maximum weight of a light-sport aircraft is the sum of:(1) Aircraft empty weight; (2) Weight of the passenger for each seat installed; (3) Baggage allowance for each passenger; and (4) Full fuel, including a minimum of the half-hour fuel reserve required for day visual flight rules in § 91.151(a)(1).

http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/regulatory/sport_rule.pdf   (page 23)



Ok let's see.... empty wt = 751, 2 seats filled = 360,  full tanks = 168, baggage allowance 2 x 15 = 30   Total 1309 lbs Take off weight.



Remember , this is a "stock" Series V w/ 912UL so the rest such as prop, max speed, seats. gear... all meet the requirements of 1.1   As an A&P with I.A I do not need the "extras" like the new maintenace privliges that one can aquire to maintain a (true) LSA, so , once again, this aircraft will remain Expermental

It seem that if you ask 5 pilots what the rule is you get 6 different answers...every one mixes apples with oranges and confuses LSA with Sport Pilot rules\privileges

One last thing for now... I noticed some posts that asked about STC's to make current Experimentals...different... to meet the rules. STC's (Supplemental Type Certificate) only apply to Certificated aircraft...which we are not. It is a FAA "permission" to alter a "real" aircraft from it's original (and Certified) type design. DNA to Kitfox or other Experimentals.

I will stop now... thanks for reading.

Steve

Ceashman(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:32 am Post subject: Show me the FAR...

Question from Steve/ Can anyone tell me where to find the FAR that says as a PVT Pilot I CANNOT fly my Kitfox V under the new Sport Pilot rules.

  

  

 Hi Steve.

 This is a heavy question, why don't you ask someone from the EAA. you would probably get the close to perfect answer.

  

 It seem that if you ask 5 pilots what the rule is you get 6 different answers...

  

 You are asking pilots and not someone close to the rule making!

  

 We' pilots are prone to have opinions. Based on first hand experience, on what we have been told by trusted ones, on how we interpret the spoken or written word and then of course there is the "not having the faintest idea of what I am talking about, but I must provide an answer even if I have to pull this one out of my a$$"

 (I have yet to meet a pilot who does not have an opinion. But then again, opinions are healthy and sometimes funny as long as we can connect to reality)

  

 It is a FAA "permission" to alter a "real" aircraft from it's original (and Certified) type design. DNA to Kitfox or other Experimentals

  

 My opinion is that the Kitfox is an "unreal" aircraft

  

 All the best in your search for the answer.

 Eric. Atlanta GA.

  

 Do Not Archive.

  [quote][b]

Ben-PA

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 44
Location: Berwick, Pa

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:33 am Post subject: Re: Show me the FAR...

Steve,

Check here:



http://www.stacheair.com/data/At%20Work9A%20Light%20Sport%20CD/light-sport.html



I didn't look through the list, but I think you will find it there.



Ben

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kirkhull(at)kc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:27 am Post subject: Show me the FAR...

It all depends on your gross weight .  The max gross weight for light sport is 1340.  If yours is over that it does not qualify and the FAA has made it clear that it will not let the gross weight be changed.  

         

  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ceashman(at)aol.com

 Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 5:32 AM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Show me the FAR...  

  

     

Question from Steve/ Can anyone tell me where to find the FAR that says as a PVT Pilot I CANNOT fly my Kitfox V under the new Sport Pilot rules.  

    

   

    

   

    

Hi Steve.  

    

This is a heavy question, why don't you ask someone from the EAA. you would probably get the close to perfect answer.  

    

   

    

It seem that if you ask 5 pilots what the rule is you get 6 different answers...  

    

   

    

You are asking pilots and not someone close to the rule making!  

    

   

    

We' pilots are prone to have opinions. Based on first hand experience, on what we have been told by trusted ones, on how we interpret the spoken or written word and then of course there is the "not having the faintest idea of what I am talking about, but I must provide an answer even if I have to pull this one out of my a$$"  

    

(I have yet to meet a pilot who does not have an opinion. But then again, opinions are healthy and sometimes funny as long as we can connect to reality)  

    

   

    

It is a FAA "permission" to alter a "real" aircraft from it's original (and Certified) type design. DNA to Kitfox or other Experimentals  

    

   

    

My opinion is that the Kitfox is an "unreal" aircraft  

    

   

    

All the best in your search for the answer.  

    

Eric. Atlanta  GA.  

    

   

    

Do Not Archive.  

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kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:32 am Post subject: Show me the FAR...

Steve, while this is not FAR language....If your Kitfox 5 was registered as GWT in excess of 1320# it can not be flown Light Sport. Nor can it be recertified.

  

 [quote]-------------- Original message -------------- 

From: Ceashman(at)aol.com 

  Question from Steve/ Can anyone tell me where to find the FAR that says as a PVT Pilot I CANNOT fly my Kitfox V under the new Sport Pilot rules.

  

  

 Hi Steve.

 This is a heavy question, why don't you ask someone from the EAA. you would probably get the close to perfect answer.

  

 It seem that if you ask 5 pilots what the rule is you get 6 different answers...

  

 You are asking pilots and not someone close to the rule making!

  

 We' pilots are prone to have opinions. Based on first hand experience, on what we have been told by trusted ones, on how we interpret the spoken or written word and then of course there is the "not having the faintest idea of what I am talking about, but I must provide an answer even if I have to pull this one out of my a$$"

 (I have yet to meet a pilot who does not have an opinion. But then again, opinions are healthy and sometimes funny as long as we can connect to reality)

  

 It is a FAA "permission" to alter a "real" aircraft from it's original (and Certified) type design. DNA to Kitfox or other Experimentals

  

 My opinion is that the Kitfox is an "unreal" aircraft

  

 All the best in your search for the answer.

 Eric. Atlanta GA.

  

 Do Not Archive.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

	
[b]

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:39 am Post subject: Show me the FAR...

At 09:24 PM 10/22/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Can anyone tell me where to find the FAR that says as a PVT Pilot I CANNOT 

fly my Kitfox V under the new Sport Pilot rules. (In other words, after my 

current medical expires) Please quote only  the FAR(s), not articles by 

AOPA, EAA, or writersauthors. The FARs are the only things that counts.


	


Steve,

         Why would you challenge us? I don't care if you want to fly your V 

as a sport pilot, but the local FSDO might. Why don't you contact them? 

They'll give you a definitive answer. (Not really, since I understand it 

depends who you talk to, but at least they may be able to point you to the 

regs.)

Guy Buchanan

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.



Do not archive

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

84KF
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:32 am Post subject: Re: Show me the FAR...

“It all depends on your gross weight . The max gross weight for light sport is 1340. If yours is over that it does not qualify and the FAA has made it clear that it will not let the gross weight be changed.” 



Yes ,,, this is true….if one wishes to have a true LSA category aircraft.  But as I specifically stated  my V is, and shall remain Experimental. I repeat…I am not attempting to have the Experimental airworthiness certificate changed to a Light-sport Aircraft (LSA) category special airworthiness certificate which , yes… have a max gross of 1320. But if you READ the rule (at) http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/regulatory/sport_rule.pdf  the key words, over and over, are Maximum Takeoff Weight  and remember that my question is in regards to Sport pilot limitations, not what determines what can fit into the LSA category. LSA is LSA, Experimental is Experimental. 

   This is where the confusion starts. The mixing of apples\oranges. 



“Steve, while this is not FAR language....If your Kitfox 5 was registered as GWT in excess of 1320# it can not be flown Light Sport.”  

 

I do not wish to be rude, but (the original question is) show me the FAR that says just that.

 

“Steve, 

Why would you challenge us?”   This is not a challenge. It is an attempt to separate the hearsay and perceived misconceptions from the actually regulations as written.



Thanks everyone for the input, keep it coming …

Steve

kirkhull(at)kc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:53 am Post subject: Show me the FAR...

The FAA is not as picky as your insurance company.  You might want to check

because your insurance might require a valid medical.



--

crazyivan

Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 62
Location: Pensacola

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:50 pm Post subject: Re: Show me the FAR...

Steve,



Your ascertation that the FARs are the end-all-be-all is incorrect.  There are laws passed all of the time but the official book of Federal Regulations (CFR which the FARs are part of) are not immediately updated.  Here is a link to the final ruling of the Light Sport Aircraft:



http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFinalRule.nsf/c03aa95a6d5f3d57852564720071b601/1d47971728e12ba286256edf004385aa!OpenDocument



The law refers to 1320 lbs as "the maximum gross takeoff weight."  You can apply any interpretation to that statement that you want, but as was mentioned before, you must check with your FSDO for the official, federal,  won't-get-your-butt-a-violation interpretation.  Through all of the articles and explanations that have been written over the past few years, 1320 is the max gross takeoff weight that is in your FAA-blessed pilots operating handbook, not the max you ever intend to fly.  



Personally, a quick call to the FSDO is a lot better than calling an aviation lawyer or having a suspended license.

_________________
Dave
Piper PA-22/20

84KF
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: Show me the FAR...

“The law refers to 1320 lbs as "the maximum gross takeoff weight” 

 

Where????   Even my Special Airworthiness Certificate (Experimental) for the aircraft  does not show or have a space for  “Gross Weight” or anything at all for that matter that refers to any type of weight.



  “You can apply any interpretation to that statement that you want”



 No,  you cannot.  FARs are not open to interpretation. They are written in black and white and mean exactly what the say



“1320 is the max gross takeoff weight that is in your FAA-blessed pilots operating handbook, not the max you ever intend to fly” 



There is no such thing  as an FAA approved “operating handbook” for an Experimental, just as there is no TCDS (Type Certificate Data Sheet) There are operating limitations, but even these are not “blessed” by the FAA   apples\oranges



Sorry if it seems that I don’t work and play well with others. It is not my intention to be argumentative. The intent is to promote discussion and education. After 25 years in the business including years of teaching FAA regulations at a PART 147 Maintenance School I have learned that second hand “hanger talk” is not the most reliable source of factual information.



 To all…Yes, I will eventually contact my FSDO but I think we can all agree that  as pilots and\or maintenance personal we must have a solid and correct  understanding of the laws\rules as they apply to us….as written. 

Judging from the numbers of views of this post topic it would seem there is an interest in clarifying the LSA\Sport pilot rules. Again, I urge one to take the time to read and attempt to understand the ACTUAL rulings http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/regulatory/sport_rule.pdf      and I am willing to bet that there are others out there with Series 5 models that have the same question.



Thanks,

  Steve

84KF
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:37 am Post subject: Re: Show me the FAR...

Read this for what it says, not what someone else told you it "means"

In order to save readers time and effort I have consolidated the following from the FAA Final Rule. Nothing has been intentionally omitted that would contradict any statement referenced below…

The following excerpts are verbatim from the “Final Rule”

Note:I have added the page number where the text may be found, all else is cut and pasted from original document



Page 109:

§1.1 General definitions. 

Light-sport aircraft means an aircraft, other than a helicopter or powered-lift that, since its original certification, has continued to meet the following: 

(1) A maximum takeoff weight of not more than–– 

(i) 660 pounds (300 kilograms) for lighter-than-air aircraft; 

(ii) 1,320 pounds (600 kilograms) for aircraft not intended for operation on water; or 

(iii) 1,430 pounds (650 kilograms) for an aircraft intended for operation on water. 

(2) A maximum airspeed in level flight with maximum continuous power (VH) of not more than 120 knots CAS under standard atmospheric conditions at sea level. 

(3) A maximum never-exceed speed (VNE) of not more than 120 knots CAS for a glider. 

(4) A maximum stalling speed or minimum steady flight speed without the use of lift-enhancing devices (VS1) of not more than 45 knots CAS at the aircraft’s maximum certificated takeoff weight and most critical center of gravity. 

(5) A maximum seating capacity of no more than two persons, including the pilot. 

(6) A single, reciprocating engine, if powered. 

(7) A fixed or ground-adjustable propeller if a powered aircraft other than a powered glider. 

( A fixed or autofeathering propeller system if a powered glider. 

(9) A fixed-pitch, semi-rigid, teetering, two-blade rotor system, if a gyroplane. 

(10) A nonpressurized cabin, if equipped with a cabin. 

(11) Fixed landing gear, except for an aircraft intended for operation on water or a glider. 

(12) Fixed or repositionable landing gear, or a hull, for an aircraft intended for operation on water. 

(13) Fixed or retractable landing gear for a glider. 



Page 4:

This rule does not change existing aircraft certification or maintenance regulations for aircraft already issued an airworthiness certificate, such as a standard, primary, or special certificate (e.g., experimental amateur-built and experimental exhibition aircraft). However, as discussed in the section-by-section preamble discussion for §1.1, Definition of Light-Sport Aircraft, a sport pilot can operate an aircraft meeting the light-sport aircraft definition in §1.1, regardless of the airworthiness certificate issued. 



Page 22:

Definition of “Light-sport aircraft” 

Overview 

The FAA believes that there might be confusion concerning what airworthiness certificates apply to light-sport aircraft. Therefore, the FAA is clarifying this issue. A sport pilot may operate any aircraft that meets the definition in §1.1 of a light-sport aircraft, regardless of the airworthiness certificate issued for the aircraft. An aircraft that meets the light-sport aircraft definition may have any airworthiness certificate that may be issued for an aircraft, such as standard, special, primary, or experimental amateur-built aircraft. An aircraft that meets the light-sport aircraft definition and holds a standard airworthiness certificate must be operated and maintained in accordance with the limitations of that airworthiness certificate. 



Page 22:

Commenters also requested clarification as to how compliance with some of the parameters used to define light-sport aircraft will be determined. The most frequently cited parameters were maximum takeoff weight, maximum airspeed in level flight with maximum continuous power VH, and stall speeds VS1 (without lift enhancing devices) and VS0 (landing configuration). As discussed under §1.1, the consensus standards will address details on methods of demonstrating compliance.



Page 24

Paragraph (1) Maximum certificated takeoff weight 

Some commenters stated that lacking a definition of maximum takeoff weight, aircraft with fairly high performance characteristics could meet the definition of light-sport aircraft by limiting the approved weight and payload of the airplane. The FAA considers this a valid concern and has provided some additional constraints on the weight as detailed below. The maximum weight of a light-sport aircraft is the sum of: 

(1) Aircraft empty weight; 

(2) Weight of the passenger for each seat installed; 

(3) Baggage allowance for each passenger; and 

(4) Full fuel, including a minimum of the half-hour fuel reserve required for day visual flight rules in §91.151 (a)(1). 



Page 24:

A few commenters stated that the FAA should use weight other than maximum takeoff weight as a limiting condition. Alternatives suggested by commenters included aircraft empty weight, or maximum payload. The FAA believes that the maximum take-off weight is an appropriate limiting parameter for light-sport aircraft, because it is an objective measure that can easily be determined when the aircraft configuration is specified. 



Page 33

The words, “since its original certification has continued to meet the following” are added to the introductory text of §1.1. The reasons for this are discussed in the section titled “Modification of Type-Certificated Aircraft to Meet the Light-Sport Aircraft Definition.” 

The FAA is restructuring the maximum takeoff weight requirements in paragraph (1) of the definition of “light-sport aircraft.” In addition, the FAA is changing the maximum takeoff weight from “1,232 pounds (560 kilograms)” to “not more than 1,320 pounds (600 kilograms)” and is adding “1,430 pounds (650 kilograms) for an aircraft designed for operation on water.”

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:26 am Post subject: Show me the FAR...

At 03:37 AM 10/24/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  §1.1 General definitions.

Light-sport aircraft means an aircraft, other than a helicopter or 

powered-lift that, since its original certification, has continued to meet 

the following:


	


I dug out my aircraft log and discovered the following two passages 

provided by my Designated (by the FAA) Airworthiness Representative when my 

experimental aircraft was "certified":



"I certify that this aircraft has been inspected in accordance with the 

scope and detail of FAR Part 43 Appendix D, all systems have been 

operationally checked and the aircraft is found to be in condition for safe 

operation and eligible for the airworthiness certificate requested." Signed 

Guy E. Buchanan, PP. XXX-XX-XXXX



"I find that the aircraft meets the requirements for the certification 

requested and have issued a Special Airworthiness Certificate and Operating 

Limitation dated: 6/30/06. Next inspection due 6/07"

Signed John S. Xxxxxxxx, DARF-XXXXXX-XX



I also found that on my "Application For U.S. Airworthiness Certificate" 

Form 8130-6 (10/04) U.S. Department of Transportation Federal Aviation 

Administration, box "II. CERTIFICATION REQUESTED" lists among many entries 

"A.1 STANDARD AIRWORTHINESS CERTIFICATE" and "B.9 SPECIAL AIRWORTHINESS 

CERTIFICATE: LIGHT SPORT AIRPLANE" and "B.4.2 SPECIAL AIRWORTHINESS 

CERTIFICATE: EXPERIMENTAL AMATEUR BUILT", which is what my aircraft is 

"certified" under.



I look forward to your discovery of the definition of "certification" 

wherein the FAA limits it specifically to "STANDARD AIRWORTHINESS CERTIFICATE".

Guy Buchanan

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Bob

Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 89
Location: Damascus, Maryland, USA

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:05 am Post subject: Re: Show me the FAR...

Your question was:

Can anyone tell me where to find the FAR that says as a PVT Pilot I CANNOT fly my Kitfox V under the new Sport Pilot rules. (In other words, after my current medical expires) 



The answer isn't in the certification rules for the airplane, it's in the Part 61 rules about you.  Starting with respect to your existing status, Part 61.3 states that you have to have a VALID pilot certificate.  Lose your medical by expiration or any other means and your private certificate is meaningless by itself (61.3 and 61.11 use more words to say this).  



To fly Sport Pilot requires a certificate under 61.5, which is a different animal.  You don't automatically receive a Sport certificate, you have to apply for it.  This assumes that you meet the Part 61.3(c) giving the medical requirements (not having been revoked, having a 3rd at last physical, etc) and Part 61.23, which goes into more detail.



You sound frustrated, so please don't shoot the messenger, I post this hoping it helps in understanding.  I'll echo the others, in suggesting a talk with the FSDO for further reading of the regs, because they also have to live to their Inspector's Orders, which basically are interpretations and how to apply the rules.

Bob

84KF
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:56 am Post subject: Re: Show me the FAR...

OH I beg to differ on this.  As a the holder of a Private Pilot certificate who has never been denied a medical and who has a valid drivers license I would only be restricting my flying  to Sport Pilot privliges. I just let my current medical expire, and fly AS a Sport pilot is allowed. This IS allowed. Research it. I do not need a Sport Pilot Certificate. Yes, my choice of aircraft is limited but so what?



My Private Pilot Cert is always valid (unless surrendered, revolked, etc...)

I may not always remain "Current", but it never expires, even if my medical does

Read 61.19c (c) Other pilot certificates. A pilot certificate (other than a student pilot certificate) issued under this part is issued without a specific expiration date. The holder of a pilot certificate issued on the basis of a foreign pilot license may exercise the privileges of that certificate only while that person's foreign pilot license is effective. 



 http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=4d78b30e90e96164a4d7ec5400afadd0&rgn=div8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.1.2.1.1.14&idno=14



Lose your medical by expiration or any other means and your private certificate is meaningless by itself (61.3 and 61.11 use more words to say this). 

Say what?? You need to read the rule before you paraphrase from it.

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=4d78b30e90e96164a4d7ec5400afadd0&rgn=div8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.1.2.1.1.2&idno=14



c) Medical certificate. (1) Except as provided for in paragraph (c)(2) of this section, a person may not act as pilot in command or in any other capacity as a required pilot flight crewmember of an aircraft, under a certificate issued to that person under this part, unless that person has a current and appropriate medical certificate that has been issued under part 67 of this chapter, or other documentation acceptable to the Administrator, which is in that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft. 



 but read on...



(2) A person is not required to meet the requirements of paragraph (c)(1) of this section if that person— 

(iv) Is exercising the privileges of a sport pilot certificate with glider or balloon privileges;



"You sound frustrated"   Not at all. I just like to have CORRECT information presented and keep myself informed. 



Steve

84KF
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: Show me the FAR...

Opps... got ahead of myself...I meant to include this....

v) Is exercising the privileges of a sport pilot certificate with other than glider or balloon privileges and holds a current and valid U.S. driver's license. A person who has applied for or held a medical certificate may exercise the privileges of a sport pilot certificate using a current and valid U.S. driver's license only if that person—



Well, anyway it goes on....   and no. my medical has never been denied so this would apply to me.

A) Has been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical certificate at the time of his or her most recent application; and



I won't take up space with this...Read the regs

84KF
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Show me the FAR...

Guy.

  Thanks for the input.   Certify.... Certified..., Certificated....   My head hurts.

I just made a call to my GADO and their initial response to the question "is an Experimental aircraft certified? was... No, it's not.



 Even though, you raised good issues that (finally) forced me to make an appointment to discuss these issues with them face to face (in a attempt to) to clairify them. Tomorrow, 9:00 am. And appearently the are even newer rules that JUST came out. He said to bring my Zip drive and he would download a copy in .pdf format. I have no idea what this will be about. Maybe good, maybe bad. I will pass the info along whatever.

Wish me luck??? 

  Steve

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:15 pm Post subject: Show me the FAR...

If we don't hear from you by, say, 5pm, we'll send out the hounds. : )



Lynn

do not archive

On Tuesday, October 24, 2006, at 05:11  PM, 84KF wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Guy.

   Thanks for the input.   Certify.... Certified..., Certificated....   

 My head hurts.

 I just made a call to my GADO and their initial response to the 

 question "is an Experimental aircraft certified? was... No, it's not.



  Even though, you raised good issues that (finally) forced me to make 

 an appointment to discuss these issues with them face to face (in a 

 attempt to) to clairify them. Tomorrow, 9:00 am. And appearently the 

 are even newer rules that JUST came out. He said to bring my Zip drive 

 and he would download a copy in .pdf format. I have no idea what this 

 will be about. Maybe good, maybe bad. I will pass the info along 

 whatever.

 Wish me luck???

   Steve



 --------

 Steve: Former Fi-156 'Storch' driver  (...talk about folding wings!!!)

 New owner, not builder- Kitfox V / 912UL / Warp Dr 3 blade. Thanks to 

 the late great Ray Mudge, Brighton Mi.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69975#69975

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

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