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Muffler melted hole in Radiator hose

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markandrhonda(at)harveyfa
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:18 pm Post subject: Muffler melted hole in Radiator hose

I have a xs tri gear with a 912s ready to fly[almost]. It has 5.3 hours on  the clock. Two days ago I was setting the pitch stops on the prop when I lost  most of the coolant. The starboard radiator hose had a hole melted through it  from the muffler. The hose is only about 10mm to 15mm away from the  muffler.  Has any one had this happen and if so how do you prevent it form  happening again. Luckily it happened on the ground and not on the first flight  or any other for that matter.

  

 Regards Mark

 QLD Australia    

    	 		 			 				 			 		 		 			

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Peter.Field(at)hgfield.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:18 am Post subject: Muffler melted hole in Radiator hose

Hi Mark, yes we had this happen on G-CHOX only it happened in the air! Fortunately it was just after departure and we were able to limp back at reduced power. 

We tried to protect it by putting fire hose around it but even that didn’t work. In the end we shifted the whole assembly that the radiator is secured to backwards  an inch and that solved the problem. The manual does not alert you to this potential danger and it really should. 

   

Peter Field  

 

Europa Tri gear XS G-CHOX 

    

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of markandrhonda(at)harveyfarm.net.au

 Sent: 02 December 2014 07:18

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Muffler melted hole in Radiator hose 

 

 

     

I have a xs tri gear with a 912s ready to fly[almost]. It has 5.3 hours on the clock. Two days ago I was setting the pitch stops on the prop when I lost most of the coolant. The  starboard radiator hose had a hole melted through it from the muffler. The hose is only about 10mm to 15mm away from the muffler.  Has any one had this happen and if so how do you prevent it form happening again. Luckily it happened on the ground and not on  the first flight or any other for that matter. 

  

  

  

Regards Mark 

  

QLD Australia     

 

 

 

    

     

   

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cakeykev(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:03 am Post subject: Muffler melted hole in Radiator hose

Yes it happened to my Tri gear luckily my friend was flying it. 

The hose had been protected by thermo sleeve (sliver coated material). 

It still burnt through.

The engine cooked and 4 heads and 3 barrels replaced which costs a fortune. 

I moved the radiator and oil cooler back as far as possible which has left sufficient space now. 



Kevin Challis



On 2 Dec 2014, at 07:17, <markandrhonda(at)harveyfarm.net.au (markandrhonda(at)harveyfarm.net.au)> <markandrhonda(at)harveyfarm.net.au (markandrhonda(at)harveyfarm.net.au)> wrote:

[quote]    I have a xs tri gear with a 912s ready to fly[almost]. It has 5.3 hours on  the clock. Two days ago I was setting the pitch stops on the prop when I lost  most of the coolant. The starboard radiator hose had a hole melted through it  from the muffler. The hose is only about 10mm to 15mm away from the  muffler.  Has any one had this happen and if so how do you prevent it form  happening again. Luckily it happened on the ground and not on the first flight  or any other for that matter.

  

 Regards Mark

 QLD Australia    

 



   	 		 			 				 			 		 		 			

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markandrhonda(at)harveyfa
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:42 am Post subject: Muffler melted hole in Radiator hose

Thank you for your replies. I am back at work at the moment so I wonâ€™t be  able to get back out to look at till next week.  Will definitely look at  the option of moving the radiators back.  Iâ€™m not too keen on sleeving or  shielding and leaving it in the position it is so close to the muffler.  I  think I might have to move it away as far as I can and Shield it then.  I  agree that if Europa knew about it in the past they should pass it on to other  builders even if it only happens with some cases.  Iâ€™m sure I would have  made this modification as a precautionary  process if i had known. 

 Regards,

 Mark

  

  

  

  

   From: Kevin Challis (cakeykev(at)gmail.com) 

 Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2014 9:03 PM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Re: Muffler melted hole in Radiator  hose

  



  Yes it happened to my Tri gear luckily my friend was flying it. 

  

 The hose had been protected by thermo sleeve (sliver coated material).  

  

 It still burnt through.

  

 The engine cooked and 4 heads and 3 barrels replaced which costs a fortune.  

  

 I moved the radiator and oil cooler back as far as possible which has left  sufficient space now. 



Kevin Challis   



 

On 2 Dec 2014, at 07:17, <markandrhonda(at)harveyfarm.net.au (markandrhonda(at)harveyfarm.net.au)>  <markandrhonda(at)harveyfarm.net.au (markandrhonda(at)harveyfarm.net.au)>  wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		              I have a xs tri gear with a 912s ready to fly[almost]. It has 5.3 hours    on the clock. Two days ago I was setting the pitch stops on the prop when I    lost most of the coolant. The starboard radiator hose had a hole melted    through it from the muffler. The hose is only about 10mm to 15mm away from the    muffler.  Has any one had this happen and if so how do you prevent it    form happening again. Luckily it happened on the ground and not on the first    flight or any other for that matter.

    

   Regards Mark

   QLD Australia    





                                         

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kheindl(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:03 am Post subject: Muffler melted hole in Radiator hose

Mark,



Another precaution you might want to consider is to use a combination of silicone hose and aluminium tube for the two lines to/from the radiator. You can obtain both from autosiliconehoses.com in the UK. They also have angle pieces so you can make up any shape including  the 180 degree U-shape.

But I don't understand where your hose is so close to the muffler, when the rad is at the back.

My setup is now altogether different as I positioned a custom made radiator to the front of the engine between the two exhaust pipes, at a 45 degree angle.  



From: markandrhonda(at)harveyfarm.net.au

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Muffler melted hole in Radiator hose

Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 18:41:46 +1000



     Thank you for your replies. I am back at work at the moment so I won’t be  able to get back out to look at till next week.  Will definitely look at  the option of moving the radiators back.  I’m not too keen on sleeving or  shielding and leaving it in the position it is so close to the muffler.  I  think I might have to move it away as far as I can and Shield it then.  I  agree that if Europa knew about it in the past they should pass it on to other  builders even if it only happens with some cases.  I’m sure I would have  made this modification as a precautionary  process if i had known. 

 Regards,

 Mark

  

  

  

  

   From: Kevin Challis (cakeykev(at)gmail.com) 

 Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2014 9:03 PM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Re: Muffler melted hole in Radiator  hose

  



  Yes it happened to my Tri gear luckily my friend was flying it. 

  

 The hose had been protected by thermo sleeve (sliver coated material).  

  

 It still burnt through.

  

 The engine cooked and 4 heads and 3 barrels replaced which costs a fortune.  

  

 I moved the radiator and oil cooler back as far as possible which has left  sufficient space now. 



Kevin Challis   



 

On 2 Dec 2014, at 07:17, <markandrhonda(at)harveyfarm.net.au (markandrhonda(at)harveyfarm.net.au)>  <markandrhonda(at)harveyfarm.net.au (markandrhonda(at)harveyfarm.net.au)>  wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		              I have a xs tri gear with a 912s ready to fly[almost]. It has 5.3 hours    on the clock. Two days ago I was setting the pitch stops on the prop when I    lost most of the coolant. The starboard radiator hose had a hole melted    through it from the muffler. The hose is only about 10mm to 15mm away from the    muffler.  Has any one had this happen and if so how do you prevent it    form happening again. Luckily it happened on the ground and not on the first    flight or any other for that matter.

    

   Regards Mark

   QLD Australia    





                                         

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Richard Wheelwright

Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Posts: 111
Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire, UK

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:42 am Post subject: Re: Muffler melted hole in Radiator hose

Kevin

      Another option you may consider is to put am "L" shaped piece of Aluminumm between the exhaust and the radiator pipe to act as a heat shield and cover that with heat resistant material. It will be a lot easier fixing it to the air ducting than moving the radiators back. (Just a thought)

 

=============================================

Richard Wheelwright

=============================================

_________________
Richard Wheelwright
G-IRPW
First Flight 24th July 2013

graeme bird

Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 434

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: Muffler melted hole in Radiator hose

I had that pipe start to melt through early in my testing. I moved the radiator back and changed to silicon pipe and I haven't had any problems since.

_________________
Graeme Bird
kit4 (Wagstaff) TBD
Kit3 G-CLXU (Gregory) mono 914 xs Woodcomp
Kit2 G-PATS - (kesterton) Mono Classic 912 warpdrive
Kit 1 G-UMPY - Mono Classic/XS 912S, Woodcomp G(@)gdbmk.co.uk

cakeykev(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:25 pm Post subject: Muffler melted hole in Radiator hose

I moved them back a year ago much better than a shield and not that much work. Great piece of mind. 



Kevin Challis

 	  Quote: 	
		   On 3 Dec 2014, at 18:42, Richard Wheelwright <rpwheelwright(at)yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

 

 

 

 Kevin

      Another option you may consider is to put am "L" shaped piece of Aluminumm between the exhaust and the radiator pipe to act as a heat shield and cover that with heat resistant material. It will be a lot easier fixing it to the air ducting than moving the radiators back. (Just a thought)

 

 =============================================

 Richard Wheelwright

 =============================================

 

 --------

 Richard Wheelwright

 G-IRPW

 First Flight 24th July 2013

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435263#435263

tonyrenshaw268(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:52 am Post subject: Muffler melted hole in Radiator hose

Gidday Karl,

With reference to these radiator issues, could I please ask if you have any photos of your setup that you could beam over so that I can keep them stockpiled till I install my engine, sometime in 2015? I have a 914, and all this talk of hoses melting surprises me that Europa aren’t circulating something. There appears to be a lot of informal adjustment to avoid this issue, even involving those in the UK who have to build apparently to the letter of the law, but, if they had, it seems that there would have been more problems than there apparently have been. Still, it seem like there is an omission regarding this, or at least a lack of ongoing overseeing by Europa, or am I wrong? 

Regards

Tony Renshaw



 	  Quote: 	
		  On 4 Dec 2014, at 12:03 am, Karl Heindl <kheindl(at)msn.com (kheindl(at)msn.com)> wrote:

Mark,

Another precaution you might want to consider is to use a combination of silicone hose and aluminium tube for the two lines to/from the radiator. You can obtain both from autosiliconehoses.com in the UK. They also have angle pieces so you can make up any shape including  the 180 degree U-shape.

But I don't understand where your hose is so close to the muffler, when the rad is at the back.

My setup is now altogether different as I positioned a custom made radiator to the front of the engine between the two exhaust pipes, at a 45 degree angle.  From: markandrhonda(at)harveyfarm.net.au (markandrhonda(at)harveyfarm.net.au)To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)Subject: Re: Muffler melted hole in Radiator hoseDate: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 18:41:46 +1000Thank you for your replies. I am back at work at the moment so I won’t be able to get back out to look at till next week.  Will definitely look at the option of moving the radiators back.  I’m not too keen on sleeving or shielding and leaving it in the position it is so close to the muffler.  I think I might have to move it away as far as I can and Shield it then.  I agree that if Europa knew about it in the past they should pass it on to other builders even if it only happens with some cases.  I’m sure I would have made this modification as a precautionary  process if i had known. 

Regards,

Mark

 

 

 



From: Kevin Challis (cakeykev(at)gmail.com)

Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2014 9:03 PM

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: Re: Muffler melted hole in Radiator hose

 



Yes it happened to my Tri gear luckily my friend was flying it. 

 

The hose had been protected by thermo sleeve (sliver coated material). 

 

It still burnt through.

 

The engine cooked and 4 heads and 3 barrels replaced which costs a fortune. 

 

I moved the radiator and oil cooler back as far as possible which has left sufficient space now. Kevin Challis  





	




 	  Quote: 	
		  On 2 Dec 2014, at 07:17, <markandrhonda(at)harveyfarm.net.au (markandrhonda(at)harveyfarm.net.au)> <markandrhonda(at)harveyfarm.net.au (markandrhonda(at)harveyfarm.net.au)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I have a xs tri gear with a 912s ready to fly[almost]. It has 5.3 hours on the clock. Two days ago I was setting the pitch stops on the prop when I lost most of the coolant. The starboard radiator hose had a hole melted through it from the muffler. The hose is only about 10mm to 15mm away from the muffler.  Has any one had this happen and if so how do you prevent it form happening again. Luckily it happened on the ground and not on the first flight or any other for that matter.

 

Regards Mark

QLD Australia    

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kheindl(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:28 am Post subject: Muffler melted hole in Radiator hose

Gidday Tony,



Unfortunately I don't have any pictures yet and the aircraft is put away for the winter. I intend to write an article for the Europa Flyer next year with pictures.

My and Frans Veldman's mods required considerable changes to the lower cowling. Moving the radiator to the front does not simplify the main hose runs. There is very little room between engine and muffler. On the stbd side I used a long aluminum tube under the engine and then silicone to the pump. In addition I used some insulation where clearance was very tight. On the port side the tube/hose goes around the outside and up to the reservoir, and is clear of all obstructions. But this necessitated making a slight bulge in the cowling to provide clearance going around the front exhaust manifold. Also note that silicone is much more heat resistant than rubber. 

But having said all this, I think that the original setup was perfectly safe, but pay particular attention to the oil hose coming from the bottom of the engine.

Karl



From: tonyrenshaw268(at)gmail.com

Subject: Re: Muffler melted hole in Radiator hose

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:52:00 +1100

To: kheindl(at)msn.com; europa-list(at)matronics.com



Gidday Karl,

With reference to these radiator issues, could I please ask if you have any photos of your setup that you could beam over so that I can keep them stockpiled till I install my engine, sometime in 2015? I have a 914, and all this talk of hoses melting surprises me that Europa aren’t circulating something. There appears to be a lot of informal adjustment to avoid this issue, even involving those in the UK who have to build apparently to the letter of the law, but, if they had, it seems that there would have been more problems than there apparently have been. Still, it seem like there is an omission regarding this, or at least a lack of ongoing overseeing by Europa, or am I wrong? 

Regards

Tony Renshaw

 	  Quote: 	
		  On 4 Dec 2014, at 12:03 am, Karl Heindl <kheindl(at)msn.com (kheindl(at)msn.com)> wrote:

Mark,



Another precaution you might want to consider is to use a combination of silicone hose and aluminium tube for the two lines to/from the radiator. You can obtain both from autosiliconehoses.com in the UK. They also have angle pieces so you can make up any shape including  the 180 degree U-shape.

But I don't understand where your hose is so close to the muffler, when the rad is at the back.

My setup is now altogether different as I positioned a custom made radiator to the front of the engine between the two exhaust pipes, at a 45 degree angle.  



From: markandrhonda(at)harveyfarm.net.au (markandrhonda(at)harveyfarm.net.au)

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: Re: Muffler melted hole in Radiator hose

Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 18:41:46 +1000



Thank you for your replies. I am back at work at the moment so I won’t be able to get back out to look at till next week.  Will definitely look at the option of moving the radiators back.  I’m not too keen on sleeving or shielding and leaving it in the position it is so close to the muffler.  I think I might have to move it away as far as I can and Shield it then.  I agree that if Europa knew about it in the past they should pass it on to other builders even if it only happens with some cases.  I’m sure I would have made this modification as a precautionary  process if i had known. 

Regards,

Mark

 

 

 



From: Kevin Challis (cakeykev(at)gmail.com)

Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2014 9:03 PM

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: Re: Muffler melted hole in Radiator hose

 



Yes it happened to my Tri gear luckily my friend was flying it. 

 

The hose had been protected by thermo sleeve (sliver coated material). 

 

It still burnt through.

 

The engine cooked and 4 heads and 3 barrels replaced which costs a fortune. 

 

I moved the radiator and oil cooler back as far as possible which has left sufficient space now. 



Kevin Challis  



	


[quote]On 2 Dec 2014, at 07:17, <markandrhonda(at)harveyfarm.net.au (markandrhonda(at)harveyfarm.net.au)> <markandrhonda(at)harveyfarm.net.au (markandrhonda(at)harveyfarm.net.au)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I have a xs tri gear with a 912s ready to fly[almost]. It has 5.3 hours on the clock. Two days ago I was setting the pitch stops on the prop when I lost most of the coolant. The starboard radiator hose had a hole melted through it from the muffler. The hose is only about 10mm to 15mm away from the muffler.  Has any one had this happen and if so how do you prevent it form happening again. Luckily it happened on the ground and not on the first flight or any other for that matter.

 

Regards Mark

QLD Australia    





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