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Garmin Pilot v. Foreflight

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GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:56 pm Post subject: Garmin Pilot v. Foreflight

I recently got a subscription to Garmin Pilot and had the chance to use them side by side while my wife drove on a long cross country drive.  



Things happen slowly while driving and it gave me a good opportunity to use both the Garmin Pilot and Foreflight for the same operation at about the same location on the ground.



I wrote down my experiences and sent them to Aviation Consumer.  



Attached is what I wrote.



Gary

Garmin.v.ForeFlight_03.pdf

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_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

bhauskne(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:30 pm Post subject: Garmin Pilot v. Foreflight

Hi Gary,

Thanks for the review. The Garmin Pilot app is much more ‎capable than you reported. It has the ability to customize airport and map display that reduces the workload and provides a very logical flow. You can show weather icons for all airports that report weather, at a glance. Also winds, temps, and altimeter. Airport info is one touch away. Includes both quick reference data like frequencies and runways to full data from AFD. There is a reason for North and center buttons being separate. I frequently slew the display to see far ahead without changing the zoom level. One touch and back centered, keeping north or track up.  North arrow allow momentary north up to read chart notes, without changing the slewed position. You need separate controls. Charts are readily available and easy to find using split screen. Do you know this existed? Immediate access to origin and destination airport charts. Georeferenced as well.  The ipad version has other advanced features that my Android tablet does not have yet.

Oh, ADS-B In is a welcome addition, plus the 3D backup instruments. Downside is proprietary hardware, but worth it for the features.

Finally, Garmin Pilot works with the new Garmin panel hardware to share flightplans, weather, and ‎traffic back and forth to a tablet. 



Finally, finally, Garmin Pilot works on Android tablets. Will not use Apple products. Period. 

Cheers!



Brian Hausknecht

bhauskne(at)gmail.com

  Original Message  

From: Gary L Vogt

Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2014 8:56 PM

To: Gary L Vogt

Reply To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Garmin Pilot v. Foreflight



I recently got a subscription to Garmin Pilot and had the chance to use them side by side while my wife drove on a long cross country drive. 



Things happen slowly while driving and it gave me a good opportunity to use both the Garmin Pilot and Foreflight for the same operation at about the same location on the ground.



I wrote down my experiences and sent them to Aviation Consumer. 



Attached is what I wrote.



Gary

michaelrorth

Joined: 04 Feb 2011
Posts: 65

Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:40 am Post subject: Garmin Pilot v. Foreflight

Good Morning Gary,

  

 Nice write-up.

  

 Thanks and Merry Christmas,

  

 Michael

     

 ---

michaelrorth

Joined: 04 Feb 2011
Posts: 65

Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:46 am Post subject: Garmin Pilot v. Foreflight

Good Morning Brian,

  

 Nice write-up.

  

 Thanks and Merry Christmas,

  

 Michael

     

 ---

deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:42 am Post subject: Garmin Pilot v. Foreflight

Hi Gary,

     I note your comment about not being able to find the right hardware 

for your preference.  Have you considered trying WingX on the iPad?  It 

allows the use of hardware from several vendors, and is not locked to a 

single vendor for add-ons.  There are many ADS-B options (and other cool 

items as well) that might be a better fit for your needs.



     Like you, I am impressed enough with the iPad that it has a 

dedicated place on my panel, as the top half of my radio stack in the 

Glastar.  ADS-B In hardware is a Skyradar D2 receiver with a Levil AHRS 

attached, so that the iPad acts as a third attitude display with 

synthetic vision as a tertiary backup as well as displaying ADS-B 

information (traffic, weather, notams, etc).  ADS-B Out is a Trig TT22 

transponder.  This is a great combination, and is probably the cheapest 

way (today) to get full ADS-B In and Out capability.



     I've been flying with this setup for several months now, and am 

vastly impressed with the capabilities.



-Dj



-- 

Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87

Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/

Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/

teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:05 pm Post subject: Garmin Pilot v. Foreflight

Brian,



I never said it wasn’t ‘capable.’  What I said was that pilot workload is WAY to high to accomplish the same tasks I can do with Foreflight.  I used both apps to do the same road trip, updating on-the-fly for turns in the road and looking at airports, looking at weather, looking at terrain, and everything else I’d be doing if flying.



Garmin pilot requires too much attention to the screen to do updates or changes to the flight while in flight.  



On the other hand, if you’re the kind of pilot that stays up at night planning the flight, checking weather, loading flight plans, filing flight plans for every flight and never deviating, and doing everything you’d expect to do during the flight ahead of time, then Garmin Pilot is for you.  Take all the time you like.  If all you use it for is a moving map, it’s awesome.



That isn’t the kind of flying I do.  On my last cross-country flight, I flew across the Continental Divide using a Garmin 430, Garmin 796, and an iPad with Foreflight.  The challenge was thread my way through all of the passes and be able to have an out if needed.  I really wanted to make the 796 do everything I wanted.  It wasn’t going to happen.  iPad and Foreflight provided the instant updates and headings for fine tuning the flight.  The 796 was OK, but lacked flexibility (and I know the 796 really well.  I’ve been using it for 4 years).  The 430 was nearly useless.  



So, the next step was Garmin Pilot.  It, too, requires too much work to accomplish the same thing.



I would never use an Android or PC. Period.



Gary

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Dec 23, 2014, at 10:30 PM, bhauskne(at)gmail.com wrote:

 

 

 

 Hi Gary,

 Thanks for the review. The Garmin Pilot app is much more ‎capable than you reported. It has the ability to customize airport and map display that reduces the workload and provides a very logical flow. You can show weather icons for all airports that report weather, at a glance. Also winds, temps, and altimeter. Airport info is one touch away. Includes both quick reference data like frequencies and runways to full data from AFD. There is a reason for North and center buttons being separate. I frequently slew the display to see far ahead without changing the zoom level. One touch and back centered, keeping north or track up.  North arrow allow momentary north up to read chart notes, without changing the slewed position. You need separate controls. Charts are readily available and easy to find using split screen. Do you know this existed? Immediate access to origin and destination airport charts. Georeferenced as well.  The ipad version has other advanced features that my A!

 ndroid tablet does not have yet.

 Oh, ADS-B In is a welcome addition, plus the 3D backup instruments. Downside is proprietary hardware, but worth it for the features.

 Finally, Garmin Pilot works with the new Garmin panel hardware to share flightplans, weather, and ‎traffic back and forth to a tablet. 

 

 Finally, finally, Garmin Pilot works on Android tablets. Will not use Apple products. Period. 

 Cheers!

 

 Brian Hausknecht

 bhauskne(at)gmail.com

   Original Message  

 From: Gary L Vogt

 Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2014 8:56 PM

 To: Gary L Vogt

 Reply To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Garmin Pilot v. Foreflight

 

 I recently got a subscription to Garmin Pilot and had the chance to use them side by side while my wife drove on a long cross country drive. 

 

 Things happen slowly while driving and it gave me a good opportunity to use both the Garmin Pilot and Foreflight for the same operation at about the same location on the ground.

 

 I wrote down my experiences and sent them to Aviation Consumer. 

 

 Attached is what I wrote.

 

 Gary

teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:21 pm Post subject: Garmin Pilot v. Foreflight

Here is a prototype of my new panel

[img]cid:E4321770-2745-4C5B-849B-D86792853747[/img]



Gary 	  Quote: 	
		  On Dec 24, 2014, at 7:42 AM, Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net (deej(at)deej.net)> wrote:

--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net (deej(at)deej.net)>Hi Gary,    I note your comment about not being able to find the right hardware for your preference.  Have you considered trying WingX on the iPad?  It allows the use of hardware from several vendors, and is not locked to a single vendor for add-ons.  There are many ADS-B options (and other cool items as well) that might be a better fit for your needs.    Like you, I am impressed enough with the iPad that it has a dedicated place on my panel, as the top half of my radio stack in the Glastar.  ADS-B In hardware is a Skyradar D2 receiver with a Levil AHRS attached, so that the iPad acts as a third attitude display with synthetic vision as a tertiary backup as well as displaying ADS-B information (traffic, weather, notams, etc).  ADS-B Out is a Trig TT22 transponder.  This is a great combination, and is probably the cheapest way (today) to get full ADS-B In and Out capability.    I've been flying with this setup for several months now, and am vastly impressed with the capabilities.-Dj-- Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/

IMG_4746.jpeg

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deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:24 pm Post subject: Garmin Pilot v. Foreflight

On 12/24/2014 3:04 PM, Gary L Vogt wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I would never use an Android or PC. Period.


	


There are plenty of good programs on the Android platform, so don't 

dismiss it so quickly.  In my experience, Android is just as, if not 

more, stable than the iPad platform, and costs significantly less.



I have a Google Nexus 7 running Avare (a free program) that offers many 

of the features as some of the expensive aviation software on the iPad.  

For an under-$200 solution, you just can't beat it.



I still prefer WingX on the iPad, but not everyone needs all of the 

extra functionality and Avare will do just fine.



http://apps4av.com/avare-overview/



A PC or Mac in the cabin would be a bit unwieldy, and I do not think 

would make for a good choice, but there are some small factor hardware 

platforms that might work.  I'm not sure the software is on par with 

Android and iPad, though Voyager from Seattle Avionics probably is the 

best of them:



https://www.seattleavionics.com/Voyager.aspx



-Dj



-- 

Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87

Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/

Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/

deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:48 pm Post subject: Garmin Pilot v. Foreflight

On 12/24/2014 3:20 PM, Gary L Vogt       wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		                Here is a prototype of my new panel

     	
     

     Looks good!

     

     While not the greatest pictures, here are a few of my panel retrofit     last spring:

     

     Old panel:

     http://deej.net/glastar/pics/panel/Old-Panel/img_2724.jpg

     

     Old vs New:

     http://deej.net/glastar/pics/panel/install/photo11.jpg

     

     Almost done:

     http://deej.net/glastar/pics/panel/install/photob-3181.jpg

     

     Flight test:

     http://deej.net/glastar/pics/panel/install/panel-flight-test1.jpg

     

     [quote]-- 

Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87

Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/

Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/



[b]

Jim(at)PoogieBearRanch.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:12 pm Post subject: Garmin Pilot v. Foreflight

Gary,



FYI, in ForeFlight, after you fill out the flight plan on the "maps" page (either via the command line entry or by tapping and rubber-banding), you can use the "send to" icon (the one that looks like a box with an upward-pointing arrow) to either email someone a copy of your plan, OR to send that plan to the "file and brief" page.  So you do not have to re-key anything you've previously entered on the maps page, as you reported in your review.  Makes it really easy!



Jim Parker

Sent from my iPad Mini



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Dec 23, 2014, at 10:56 PM, Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM> wrote:

 

 I recently got a subscription to Garmin Pilot and had the chance to use them side by side while my wife drove on a long cross country drive.  

 

 Things happen slowly while driving and it gave me a good opportunity to use both the Garmin Pilot and Foreflight for the same operation at about the same location on the ground.

 

 I wrote down my experiences and sent them to Aviation Consumer.  

 

 Attached is what I wrote.

 

 Gary

 

 <Garmin.v.ForeFlight_03.pdf>

teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 12:53 am Post subject: Garmin Pilot v. Foreflight

I guess you can tell I never file flight plans. 

Gary

Sent from my iPad

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Dec 24, 2014, at 9:12 PM, Jim Parker <Jim(at)PoogieBearRanch.com> wrote:

 Gary,

 FYI, in ForeFlight, after you fill out the flight plan on the "maps" page (either via the command line entry or by tapping and rubber-banding), you can use the "send to" icon (the one that looks like a box with an upward-pointing arrow) to either email someone a copy of your plan, OR to send that plan to the "file and brief" page.  So you do not have to re-key anything you've previously entered on the maps page, as you reported in your review.  Makes it really easy!

 Jim Parker

 Sent from my iPad Mini

> On Dec 23, 2014, at 10:56 PM, Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM> wrote:

> 

> I recently got a subscription to Garmin Pilot and had the chance to use them side by side while my wife drove on a long cross country drive.  

> 

> Things happen slowly while driving and it gave me a good opportunity to use both the Garmin Pilot and Foreflight for the same operation at about the same location on the ground.

> 

> I wrote down my experiences and sent them to Aviation Consumer.  

> 

> Attached is what I wrote.

> 

> Gary

> 

> <Garmin.v.ForeFlight_03.pdf>

mmacdonald(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 10:48 am Post subject: Garmin Pilot v. Foreflight

Gary was looking for a solution to update the IPAD from a Garmin product.  



Garmin has done it with the Flight Stream 210.  It allows you to sync flight

plans between an IPAD and the GTN 750/650 or GNS 430W/530W series

navigators.  The only problem is the Flight Stream connectivity works with

just Garmin Pilot.  Like Gary, I find Foreflight easy to use and accomplish

everything I need for flight planning very easily.  Garmin Pilot is just not

intuitive.   Gary's comments about Garmin Pilot are right on, it is just not

as easy to use, especially in the cockpit.



I am disappointed, I have ADS-B traffic and weather on the screen in the

panel, but it would be nice to have it linked via Bluetooth to the IPAD.

If I want to use Foreflight, that means purchasing a Stratus II, which means

I have to enter the flight plan information twice, once in the IPAD and

again  Garmin unit.  I can have the same flight info in both the panel and

IPAD, but have to use Garmin Pilot.   The cost is higher for the Garmin's

Flight Stream when you include both the unit to add and the installation

costs.  For now, I plan to continue using Foreflight and am considering

buying the Stratus II.



Amazing I am not satisfied when the technology today gives us more

information in flight and for planning and it takes so much less time than

just 5 or 10 years ago.



To check out Garmin's connectivity with IPAD go the

"https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/in-the-air/avionics-safety/sat-comm/flight-

stream-110-210/prod153681.html"



Mark MacDonald

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