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Rotax Engine Purchase

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Kelvin Weston

Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 90
Location: Hampshire, UK

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:00 pm Post subject: Rotax Engine Purchase

Hi All



I am starting to think about when to purchase the engine for my Europa and I guess the answer is "as late as possible" if I am going to enjoy any of the 18 month warranty it comes with.



There would appear to be a heck of a lot to do between purchase and getting it airborne:

First fit of the engine, rads, ducting, etc

Remaining wiring, electrics & instruments

Fit cowls

Fit prop

Some sanding, filling and get the whole thing painted etc, etc

Then there is the LAA paperwork exercise here in the UK.



Given my current rate of build, the thing is going to be out of warranty before I get it fired up in anger.



How have others got on?

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_________________
Regards

Kelv Weston
Kit 497
kelv@kdweston.co.uk

JonathanMilbank

Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 388
Location: Aberdeen area

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: Rotax Engine Purchase

How about giving consideration to buying a fairly low hours rebuilt engine, even if it hasn't been zero-houred after rebuilding? I'm on my third Rotax 912 since completing the project, not because there was anything wrong with the first two. After about 800 hours on the first 80hp unit, another 80hp engine became available with barely 200 hours at a ridiculously low price, so I couldn't resist a straight swap and sold the first to defray the cost of the second.



Then I converted my undercarriage from mono-wheel to tri-gear and discovered that the extra rolling resistance of three small wheels necessitated more power, so I did another swap involving two other parties to acquire my current 912S which had only about 220 hours after a thorough inspection and reassembly. One possible source of such rebuilt engines in the UK is Kevin Dilks, who does such work for a living and used to work at the Rotax factory in Austria. He certainly knows his stuff!



What I'm trying to suggest is that Rotax 912 engines, being fitted to permit aircraft and therefore getting replaced on condition not life, seem to be capable of reaching 2000 hours if well cared for. There's only one item which I would insist that is brand new before installing the 100hp 912S and that is the starter sprag clutch. This item never gave me trouble in the two 80hp units, but I know of other people who've had to replace more than one sprag clutch in the 912S.



So I would be almost unconcerned by the need for any warranty on Rotax 912UL  and 912ULS units, but would be much more cautious if considering buying the relatively new 912iS which, by the way, is also somewhat heavier.

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alan.twigg775(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:23 pm Post subject: Rotax Engine Purchase

I bought my engine 18 months ago, it went on, including prop hub and cowling. It is currently off after painting ( aircraft is more manageable in the spray shop). I hope to have the engine on and running for the first time this summer, 2 years after purchase. 

Alan Twigg 

Kit 463 Motorglider

(Slow build)



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On 12 Jan 2015, at 20:00, "Kelvin Weston" <kelv(at)kdweston.biz> wrote:

 

 

 

 Hi All

 

 I am starting to think about when to purchase the engine for my Europa and I guess the answer is "as late as possible" if I am going to enjoy any of the 18 month warranty it comes with.

 

 There would appear to be a heck of a lot to do between purchase and getting it airborne:

 First fit of the engine, rads, ducting, etc

 Remaining wiring, electrics & instruments

 Fit cowls

 Fit prop

 Some sanding, filling and get the whole thing painted etc, etc

 Then there is the LAA paperwork exercise here in the UK.

 

 Given my current rate of build, the thing is going to be out of warranty before I get it fired up in anger.

 

 How have others got on?

 

 --------

 Regards

 

 Kelv Weston

 Kit 497

 kelv(at)kdweston.biz

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436904#436904

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graeme bird

Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 434

Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:53 am Post subject: Re: Rotax Engine Purchase

It was less than a year for me. Although I thought about getting a low hours engine; they seemed to be asking nearly as much. Nearly fell foul of a scam from someone in Germany and in the end decided the engine was one item I wanted to be confident in. I think the registration mentioned fitting and first run. They are pretty established and reliable so you shouldn't need the warranty unless you are doing silly hours.

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_________________
Graeme Bird
kit4 (Wagstaff) TBD
Kit3 G-CLXU (Gregory) mono 914 xs Woodcomp
Kit2 G-PATS - (kesterton) Mono Classic 912 warpdrive
Kit 1 G-UMPY - Mono Classic/XS 912S, Woodcomp G(@)gdbmk.co.uk

JonathanMilbank

Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 388
Location: Aberdeen area

Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: Rotax Engine Purchase

It's so long ago since I bought my first brand new engine through Europa, who in their turn had bought a job lot from Skydrive (I think), but I seem to recall that the deal went something like this. We could purchase our engines and keep them at home or indeed fit them to our airframes up to a year before first flight. Then from the date of first flight the warranty lasted for one year. This meant that the warranty could have expired up to two years after date of purchase.



Hopefully and if you decide to buy brand new, you might be able to negotiate something similar.

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John Wighton

Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 241

Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:26 am Post subject: Re: Rotax Engine Purchase

Don't forget you already have a 2 year warranty period on all goods purchased in the EU.  The UK is part of the EU (in case anyone had forgotten).



The directive covering this is as per extract (with acknowledgment to This is Money article in 2009).



The link goes to here:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:1999:171:0012:0016:EN:PDF see Article 5 Para 1 on time limits.



"

The EU directive in question is 1999/44/EC. The full wording is contained here (open the word documtent and scroll to page 7) but the important bit is this: 'A two-year guarantee applies for the sale of all consumer goods everywhere in the EU. In some countries, this may be more, and some manufacturers also choose to offer a longer warranty period.' 

As with UK law, a seller is not bound by the guarantee 'if the (fault) has its origin in materials supplied by the consumer'. But the EU rule does not require the buyer to show the fault is inherent in the product and not down to their actions. 

The EU rule also says buyers need to report a problem within two months of discovering it if they want to be covered under the rule. 



How can I use this rule? 

Reports of cases where shoppers have used the EU rule to get refunds suggest that even senior staff at stores may be unaware of it, so be prepared for some blank faces if you need to use it to argue your case. But eventually, after referring the complaint to legal teams, reports suggest the stores have coughed up. 

Use this checklist to see if you could try and use the EU rule: 

• The goods were purchased no longer than two years ago 

• The store will not provide a refund or repair because you are returning the item after their return period has ended, usually one year 

• You are reporting the fault within two months of discovering it 

• The goods show no signs of damage through your actions or misuse. 

The best advice is to print off the EU rule and take a copy with you. If staff fail to recognise it, ask them to take your details and report your complaint to their bosses. Take a note of the names of any staff you speak to and explain that you will contact them again soon for a response. 

You may manage to get your refund on the basis of the EU directive, however, shops are within their rights to [try to] use the Sale of Goods Act as the definitive guideline instead. 

"

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_________________
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD

Kelvin Weston

Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 90
Location: Hampshire, UK

Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: Rotax Engine Purchase

Hi all and thanks for the replies.



I think Rotax may have changed the warranty from what it used to be.



The latest warranty document states that for uncertified 912 models the warranty coverage period is 18 consecutive months or the first 200 hours of operation whichever occurs first.



It goes on to state:



This warranty will be in effect:

- In case of the warranty period being measured in hours of operations: from the date the product is first put into use.

- In case of the warranty period being measured in months: from the date of delivery to the first retail customer, but in no event later than six (6) months  after BRP-Powertrain invoice date regarding the sale of the product to an authorised distributor/dealer.



This would suggest that dealers cannot store or keep engines for longer than six months if the purchaser is to get his full 18 months warranty!

Rotax effectively give the engine a 24 month warranty starting from manufacture. If dealers do have the engine for longer than six months then the warranty will have started before they sell it!



The warranty document is in the Tech Support area of the Rotax website.



There is also a video clip from the Rotax Flying Club (link below) that seems to suggest the same.



http://rotaxnews.net/?p=268



I believe the previous UK Rotax dealer - Skydrive are selling engines at reduced cost for this very reason, they have limited warranties.



I think I shall just have to buy as late as possible and work faster!!

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_________________
Regards

Kelv Weston
Kit 497
kelv@kdweston.co.uk

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