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Monowheel undercarriage 'up' stop?

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clivesutton

Joined: 23 Jan 2013
Posts: 187
Location: KENILWORTH

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:01 am Post subject: Monowheel undercarriage 'up' stop?

I'm doing the LA mod to the tunnel which lets me see the lock up and lock down operations of the UC in more detail (through the sidewall holes presently cut for the mod) than one can normally see from underneath the a/c.  I notice that in the locked up position, the tundra wheel is still free to move upwards about 10-15mm before the calliper brake hose union contacts the fuselage in the area of an encpasulated rudder cable run.  



Apart from the possible irritation of hearing 'bumps' in the air as the wheel moves up and down a little under varying G forces, it made me wonder about what happens in the case of an intentional or unintentional wheels-up landing, and that such a situation may at least reduce controllability as the UC articulation takes out one rudder cable - and indeed after that- a that it might then go on to contact the throttle lever moulding etc.  



Could anyone comment on if they see this as a real concern or not, and if any potential up-stop solutions exist?  Views of anyone who has had the misfortune to repair the damage caused during a wheels-up landing would be especially welcome. 



Also wondering about if a mudguard fixed to the arm might be good idea



?



Regards,  Clive (Kit 121- now registered as G-CILF)

graeme bird

Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 434

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Monowheel undercarriage 'up' stop?

I havent noticed any bumping about of the wheel in flight. I have filled the tunnel with snow and mud before now and am glad there is some spare space up there.

There are some mud guard designs around and i have wondered about one myself. Id be interested to know about the mod you are doing.

_________________
Graeme Bird
kit4 (Wagstaff) TBD
Kit3 G-CLXU (Gregory) mono 914 xs Woodcomp
Kit2 G-PATS - (kesterton) Mono Classic 912 warpdrive
Kit 1 G-UMPY - Mono Classic/XS 912S, Woodcomp G(@)gdbmk.co.uk

spcialeffects

Joined: 29 Aug 2012
Posts: 306
Location: Kent

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:21 am Post subject: Re: Monowheel undercarriage 'up' stop?

I'm building a classic mono wheel and am interested in a mud guard sort of solution too. The only one I know of was made by Kim prout but I have not made any head way in trying to contact him about it. On the well documented Tony K's site, in one of the entries he has it fitted.......looks quite good too.

dg.watts(at)talktalk.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 10:37 am Post subject: Monowheel undercarriage 'up' stop?

Jim Naylor built Classic Monowheel G-BVLV and later fitted a particularly attractive and effective mudguard.



If memory serves me correctly when I spoke to him about it, he said that he laid some material over the inflated tyre and then took a moulding off this to form the mudguard.



He has sold the Europa and moved to NZ so we can't find out too much more, but a trawl around the net might come up with some photos.



Dave Watts G-BXDY

 	  Quote: 	
		   On 29 Dec 2014, at 17:21, spcialeffects <spcialeffects(at)aol.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 I'm building a classic mono wheel and am interested in a mud guard sort of solution too. The only one I know of was made by Kim prout but I have not made any head way in trying to contact him about it. On the well documented Tony K's site, in one of the entries he has it fitted.......looks quite good too.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436403#436403

pjeffers(at)talktalk.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:46 am Post subject: Monowheel undercarriage 'up' stop?

The aircraft G-BXDY now lives at Long Marston airfield, UK.  The  owner is

David Curry and you can find his contact details on the Europa Club data

disc.

I hope this helps

Pete



--

dg.watts(at)talktalk.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:45 am Post subject: Monowheel undercarriage 'up' stop?

Pete,



That'll be G-BVLV at Long Marston now as my G-BXDY still lives at Laddingford. 



Dave Watts G-BXDY

[quote] On 30 Dec 2014, at 09:45, Peter Jeffers <pjeffers(at)talktalk.net> wrote:

 

 

 

 The aircraft G-BXDY now lives at Long Marston airfield, UK.  The  owner is

 David Curry and you can find his contact details on the Europa Club data

 disc.

 I hope this helps

 Pete

 

 --

pjeffers(at)talktalk.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:13 am Post subject: Monowheel undercarriage 'up' stop?

Glad you spotted my deliberate mistake. Happy New Year to you and Marion.



--

clivesutton

Joined: 23 Jan 2013
Posts: 187
Location: KENILWORTH

Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:41 am Post subject: Re: Monowheel undercarriage 'up' stop?

Thanks for everyone's replies, i will follow up on the G-BVLV mudguard topic and make further enquiries abt the up stop idea.  Happy New Year

JohnFrance

Joined: 17 Sep 2014
Posts: 79
Location: Grenoble France

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:41 am Post subject: Monowheel undercarriage 'up' stop?

Hello, I would also be very interested in a mudguard design, particularly one that prevented/reduced stones being thrown up onto the fuselage and tail plane.



I wonder if it would be possible to place a "spade" like cutout behind the wheel that would be angled in such a way that it protects from stones when the gear is down and sits close to and parallel to the fuselage when the gear is retracted. A bit like an American fireman's helmet.

It shouldn't produce too much drag either when the gear is down (or up).



Does anyone have any real world experience with this approach or similar?



Happy New Year to all and hope to meet some of you when the flying season starts!



John



Kit 192, Grenoble and still learning with 30 hours to date.



Sent from my iPad



 	  Quote: 	
		   On 3 Jan 2015, at 09:03, Europa-List Digest Server <europa-list(at)matronics.com> wrote:

 

 Monowheel undercarriage 'up' stop?

_________________
Europa mono Nr 192

clivesutton

Joined: 23 Jan 2013
Posts: 187
Location: KENILWORTH

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:11 am Post subject: Re: Mudguard & undercarriage 'up' stop?

An update for those interested:  



MUDGUARD - two UK a/c have MOD 'schedules' for a fabricated mudguard you can source from the LAA, G-RONA (10502) and G-BWZA (10111).  Both were pre-2001 when the standard for then PFA MOD applications was changed, and as a result they are a bit thin on detail, though the G-BWZA paperwork does have a picture of the mudguard off the a/c.  However, I plan to design my own and use these as the basis for a new 'repeat MOD' application.   I will consider John's ideas for a 'spade' type deflector behind the wheel to reduce the throw-up of muck from the wheel onto the fuselage behind it - though a fuselage-mounted fairing incorporating a deflector might be an alternative.  A drag-reducing fairing in front of the wheel is another idea I'm thinking about.  On the wider drag-reduction front, Andy agreed that there is quite some potential to improve it - by reducing gaps or closing over holes in the general u/c area - which I'll also look at.



UPSTOP - in a discussion with Andy Draper recently, he agreed that some kind of reinforced bracketry on either side of the tunnel opening (probably in the area where the front of each seat base meets the tunnel) to prevent swinging arm travel beyond the horizontal, would be a good idea.  Apparently, he experienced a wheels-up landing himself, and in that case the tyre contacted the throttle box moulding - which given its relatively small contact area, i imagine would rather quickly ruin the central portion of the tyre.  I'm planning to design and install such bracketry, and will post a pic here once ready.  It will probably need to feature 'toblerone' type shapes made from plywood, suitably glassed in to the structure whilst maintaining at least a 5mm or so gap between it and the arm leg in the gear-up position.  I'll also need to move the brake line that currently runs along the top edge of the arm - that would contact this bracketry in the event of a wheels-up landing situation.



Constructive comments and advice on the benefits or tribulations of previous attempts to implement the same or similar, always welcome.



regards,

Clive  G-CILF

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:46 am Post subject: Monowheel undercarriage 'up' stop?

There's another reason for an up stop, When the wheel is fully UP the gear mechanism is very close to overcentre and the 

weight of the gear may not be enough to overcome friction and lower the gear. The retract lever does not produce any force to

lower the gear when fully up. This happened to me once; the brake pads gradually wore down bringing the calliper close enough to the side of the tunnel,

(Classic Mono) to give enough friction to stop the gear falling down. I couldn't work out why the lever appeared to be locked up, (it wasn't)

but a lucky bit of extra G was enough to solve the problem.

Graham

   From: Clive Sutton <clive.maf(at)googlemail.com>

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Sunday, 1 February 2015, 10:11

 Subject: Re: Monowheel undercarriage 'up' stop?

  

 

--> Europa-List message posted by: "Clive Sutton" <clive.maf(at)googlemail.com (clive.maf(at)googlemail.com)>



An update for those interested:  



MUDGUARD - two UK a/c have MOD 'schedules' for a fabricated mudguard you can source from the LAA, G-RONA (10502) and G-BWZA (10111).  Both were pre-2001 when the standard for then PFA MOD applications was changed, and as a result they are a bit thin on detail, though the G-BWZA paperwork does have a picture of  the mudguard off the a/c.  However, I plan to design my own and use these as the basis for a new 'repeat MOD' application.   I will consider John's ideas for a 'spade' type deflector behind the wheel to reduce the throw-up of muck from the wheel onto the fuselage behind it - though a fuselage-mounted fairing incorporating a deflector might be an alternative.  A drag-reducing fairing in front of the wheel is another idea I'm thinking about.  On the wider drag-reduction front, Andy agreed that there is quite some potential to improve it - by reducing gaps or closing over holes in the general u/c area - which I'll also look at.



UPSTOP - in a discussion with Andy Draper recently, he agreed that some kind of reinforced bracketry on either side of the tunnel opening (probably in the area where the front of each seat base meets the tunnel) to prevent swinging arm travel beyond the horizontal, would be a good idea.  Apparently,  he experienced a wheels-up landing himself, and in that case the tyre contacted the throttle box moulding - which given its relatively small contact area, i imagine would rather quickly ruin the central portion of the tyre.  I'm planning to design and install such bracketry, and will post a pic here once ready.  It will probably need to feature 'toblerone' type shapes made from plywood, suitably glassed in to the structure whilst maintaining at least a 5mm or so gap between it and the arm leg in the gear-up position.  I'll also need to move the brake line that currently runs along the top edge of the arm - that would contact this bracketry in the event of a wheels-up landing situ!

 ation.



Constructive comments and advice on the benefits or tribulations of previous attempts to implement the same or similar, always welcome.



regards,

Clive  G-CILF





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=437910#437910http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Li>  [quote][b]

Alfred Buess

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 67

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:55 am Post subject: Re: Monowheel undercarriage 'up' stop?

Clive,

I added short pipes on both sides of the wheel axle. See attached picture. The pipes stop the up movement of undercarriage when they hit the two aluminum brackets mounted inside the wheel well (sorry, no picture, the A/C is out in the hangar). Reasons for adding the two pipes: Firstly they reduce the torsional forces applied to the sidewalls of the wheel well when the undercarriage hits the stop brackets, because the horizontal parts of the brackets are much shorter compared to the solution with the swinging arm hitting the brackets. And secondly the brackets don't interfere with the brake hose.

Regards, Alfred Buess

CH-3700 Spiez, Switzerland

Europa XS HB-YKI, Ercoupe 415-E N94804

IMG_1790.JPG

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Upstop pipes mounted to the wheel axle.

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clivesutton

Joined: 23 Jan 2013
Posts: 187
Location: KENILWORTH

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:11 pm Post subject: Re: Monowheel undercarriage 'up' stop?

Hi Alfred and thanks for your suggestion and picture.  I agree this could be a more elegant solution than my 'arm stop' idea, but i would be interested to see the reinforcements used in the area of the fuselage floor/tunnel your tubes contact - another picture perhaps?.  Essentially these tubes and their load-bearing structure could carry maybe 1-1.5 times the whole mass of the loaded a/c (static mass + momentary inertial loading due to runway surface-induced 'bumps' and some component of the vertical inertia due to vertical velocity of landing the a/c) in a wheels-up landing, so with the resultant forces concentrated onto the tube-end areas, the structure they touch will need to be quite capable.

spcialeffects

Joined: 29 Aug 2012
Posts: 306
Location: Kent

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:10 am Post subject: Re: Monowheel undercarriage 'up' stop?

Hi Clive. I am unable to find the two mods on line and wondered if you could post a link here for them? Many thanks Frank

clivesutton

Joined: 23 Jan 2013
Posts: 187
Location: KENILWORTH

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:30 am Post subject: Re: Monowheel undercarriage 'up' stop?

Hello Frank,

It won't be listed on the website as both of these MODs pertain to a specific aircraft.  I understand that i can only use them as a guide anyway and will have to submit my own repeat MOD.  I got hold of a paper copy by visiting Andy Draper and asking about them.  You could phone Andy directly and ask for a copy or if you send me your postal address and I'll copy and post you the bits of paper i have.  regards,

Clive

Alfred Buess

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 67

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:52 am Post subject: Re: Monowheel undercarriage 'up' stop?

Hi Clive,

Here are three additional pictures showing the aluminium bracket and the wheel tube on the brake side of the wheel. The bracket is bolted to the tunnel structure that was reinforced with some BID. I made the up stop mainly to prevent the wheel from getting stuck in the tunnel (hitting the brake master cylinder) when being retracted in a snappy way. I am not sure if it is strong enough to hold the wheel in case of a wheels up landing.

Regards, Alfred

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rparigoris

Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 796

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:18 am Post subject: Re: Monowheel undercarriage 'up' stop?

Hi Group



FWIW we fabricated an "over the top" bridge Mono Up-stop. 



Other Swing-arm info as well:

http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=27446



Ron Parigoris

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