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Water Coolant Sensor location?

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MJKTuck(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:06 pm Post subject: Water Coolant Sensor location?

Hi guys,



Where do you think I should put the EIS water/coolant temperature sensor?



I'm thinking in the long hose that runs from the radiator to the 

'distributor pot' on top of the engine.



Regards,

Martin Tuck

N152MT

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:19 pm Post subject: Water Coolant Sensor location?

Martin,

Yes, just after the coolant exits the â€œpotâ€ on the way to the radiator.



Blue skies & tailwinds,Bob BorgerEuropa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs).Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP3705 Lynchburg Dr.Corinth, TX  76208-5331Cel: 817-992-1117rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)



[quote]On Mar 19, 2015, at 8:05 PM, Martin Tuck <MJKTuck(at)cs.com (MJKTuck(at)cs.com)> wrote:

--> Europa-List message posted by: Martin Tuck <MJKTuck(at)cs.com (MJKTuck(at)cs.com)>Hi guys,Where do you think I should put the EIS water/coolant temperature sensor?I'm thinking in the long hose that runs from the radiator to the 'distributor pot' on top of the engine.Regards,Martin TuckN152MT

[b]

MJKTuck(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:22 pm Post subject: Water Coolant Sensor location?

Thanks Bob!

     

     Martin

     

     On 3/19/2015 9:18 PM, Robert Borger       wrote:

     

     [quote]              Martin,              

       Yes, just after the coolant exits the â€œpotâ€ on the         way to the radiator.

              

       Blue skies & tailwinds,         Bob Borger         Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914,Â Airmaster C/S Prop (75           hrs).         Little Toot Sport Biplane,Â Lycoming Thunderbolt           AEIO-320 EXP         3705 Lynchburg Dr.         Corinth, TX Â 76208-5331         Cel: 817-992-1117         rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)

                           

                     	  Quote: 	
		               On Mar 19, 2015, at 8:05 PM, Martin Tuck <MJKTuck(at)cs.com (MJKTuck(at)cs.com)> wrote:

                          --> Europa-List message posted by: Martin               Tuck <MJKTuck(at)cs.com (MJKTuck(at)cs.com)>                              Hi guys,                              Where do you think I should put the EIS water/coolant               temperature sensor?                              I'm thinking in the long hose that runs from the radiator               to the 'distributor pot' on top of the engine.                              Regards,               Martin Tuck               N152MT

           

	
     [b]

christoph.both(at)acadiau
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:00 am Post subject: Water Coolant Sensor location?

I placed mine right after the cylinder coolant outlet as I want to sense the hottest spot.

Christoph

#223 



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Mar 19, 2015, at 23:06, "Martin Tuck" <MJKTuck(at)cs.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Hi guys,

 

 Where do you think I should put the EIS water/coolant temperature sensor?

 

 I'm thinking in the long hose that runs from the radiator to the 'distributor pot' on top of the engine.

 

 Regards,

 Martin Tuck

 N152MT

dpark748(at)icloud.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:11 am Post subject: Water Coolant Sensor location?

Chris,

I did the same.

Dave G-LDVO



Sent from my iPhone

 	  Quote: 	
		   On 20 Mar 2015, at 13:59, Christoph Both <christoph.both(at)acadiau.ca> wrote:

 

 

 

 I placed mine right after the cylinder coolant outlet as I want to sense the hottest spot.

 Christoph

 #223 

 

 Sent from my iPhone

 

> On Mar 19, 2015, at 23:06, "Martin Tuck" <MJKTuck(at)cs.com> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> Hi guys,

> 

> Where do you think I should put the EIS water/coolant temperature sensor?

> 

> I'm thinking in the long hose that runs from the radiator to the 'distributor pot' on top of the engine.

> 

> Regards,

> Martin Tuck

> N152MT

paul.the.aviator(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:23 pm Post subject: Water Coolant Sensor location?

I removed my coolant tank and TIG welded on some 10g aluminum, cut a  thread

and installed the sensor. It sounds like a lot of messing around but it

isn't really and it's in the ideal place. 



Installing a T means another connection in the coolant system along with

another failure point.

Remi Guerner

Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 284

Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:31 am Post subject: Re: Water Coolant Sensor location?

In spite of what Rotax say in their Manuals, I do not think that monitoring coolant temperature is necessary. This is why:

1. The coolant is heated by the cylinder heads. So obviously coolant temperature is always below cylinder head temperature. 

2. Conventional water based coolant boils at 120Â°C at the 1.2 bar pressure, at sea level.

3. Anytime the hottest cylinder CHT exceeds 120Â°C, there will be at least some local boiling. 

3.1. Then, if the engine is running at cruise RPM or more, the water pump insures a good flow through the cylinder heads, the bubbles are pushed downstream to the cooler and condense, so there is no boiling over. 

3.2. If the engine is at idle on the ground, while you are waiting for your take off clearance, then it will boil over. Moreover, as soon as CHT reaches 110Â°C, you must either shut down the engine or take off quickly. If you wait a few more minutes and let the CHT reach 115Â°C, then the only choice is to take off immediately. Then the CHT will decrease instantly. If you shut down at this point, then the heat transferred from the hot engine to the coolant will make it to exceed its boiling point and you are facing a big mess.

So the only advantage of monitoring the coolant temperature would be to allow the CHT to slightly exceed 120Â°C, for example during a full power climb in very hot conditions, while the coolant temp would stay slightly below 120Â°C. It seems to me this is a very marginal and risky advantage.

So in my opinion, monitoring the CHT of the hottest cylinder and considering the redline is 110Â°C on the ground and 120Â°C in flight is good enough. This is especially true on the Europa where cooling is very good in  flight but very marginal on the ground.

Remi Guerner

F-PGKL, XS Monowheel, 912ULS, 1195 hours

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:39 pm Post subject: Water Coolant Sensor location?

Absolutely agree with you Remi.

Tim



Tim Ward

12 Waiwetu Street

Fendalton,

Christchurch,  8052

New Zealand.



ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz



Ph 64 3 3515166

Mob 0210640221

 	  Quote: 	
		   On 21/03/2015, at 10:31 pm, Remi Guerner <air.guerner(at)orange.fr> wrote:

 

 

 

 In spite of what Rotax say in their Manuals, I do not think that monitoring coolant temperature is necessary. This is why:

 1. The coolant is heated by the cylinder heads. So obviously coolant temperature is always below cylinder head temperature. 

 2. Conventional water based coolant boils at 120‹C at the 1.2 bar pressure, at sea level.

 3. Anytime the hottest cylinder CHT exceeds 120‹C, there will be at least some local boiling. 

 3.1. Then, if the engine is running at cruise RPM or more, the water pump insures a good flow through the cylinder heads, the bubbles are pushed downstream to the cooler and condense, so there is no boiling over. 

 3.2. If the engine is at idle on the ground, while you are waiting for your take off clearance, then it will boil over. Moreover, as soon as CHT reaches 110‹C, you must either shut down the engine or take off quickly. If you wait a few more minutes and let the CHT reach 115‹C, then the only choice is to take off immediately. Then the CHT will decrease instantly. If you shut down at this point, then the heat transferred from the hot engine to the coolant will make it to exceed its boiling point and you are facing a big mess.

 So the only advantage of monitoring the coolant temperature would be to allow the CHT to slightly exceed 120‹C, for example during a full power climb in very hot conditions, while the coolant temp would stay slightly below 120‹C. It seems to me this is a very marginal and risky advantage.

 So in my opinion, monitoring the CHT of the hottest cylinder and considering the redline is 110‹C on the ground and 120‹C in flight is good enough. This is especially true on the Europa where cooling is very good in  flight but very marginal on the ground.

 Remi Guerner

 F-PGKL, XS Monowheel, 912ULS, 1195 hours

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439699#439699

MJKTuck(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:48 pm Post subject: Water Coolant Sensor location?

I have done without a coolant temp for years so I'm inclined to agree. I'm also tired of looking at at a row of blanks for coolant temp on my EIS. Just looking to get a reading on the display.



Martin



Sent from my iPad



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Mar 21, 2015, at 6:38 PM, Timward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz> wrote:

 

 

 

 Absolutely agree with you Remi.

 Tim

 

 Tim Ward

 12 Waiwetu Street

 Fendalton,

 Christchurch,  8052

 New Zealand.

 

 ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz

 

 Ph 64 3 3515166

 Mob 0210640221

 

 

> On 21/03/2015, at 10:31 pm, Remi Guerner <air.guerner(at)orange.fr> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> In spite of what Rotax say in their Manuals, I do not think that monitoring coolant temperature is necessary. This is why:

> 1. The coolant is heated by the cylinder heads. So obviously coolant temperature is always below cylinder head temperature. 

> 2. Conventional water based coolant boils at 120Â°C at the 1.2 bar pressure, at sea level.

> 3. Anytime the hottest cylinder CHT exceeds 120Â°C, there will be at least some local boiling. 

> 3.1. Then, if the engine is running at cruise RPM or more, the water pump insures a good flow through the cylinder heads, the bubbles are pushed downstream to the cooler and condense, so there is no boiling over. 

> 3.2. If the engine is at idle on the ground, while you are waiting for your take off clearance, then it will boil over. Moreover, as soon as CHT reaches 110Â°C, you must either shut down the engine or take off quickly. If you wait a few more minutes and let the CHT reach 115Â°C, then the only choice is to take off immediately. Then the CHT will decrease instantly. If you shut down at this point, then the heat transferred from the hot engine to the coolant will make it to exceed its boiling point and you are facing a big mess.

> So the only advantage of monitoring the coolant temperature would be to allow the CHT to slightly exceed 120Â°C, for example during a full power climb in very hot conditions, while the coolant temp would stay slightly below 120Â°C. It seems to me this is a very marginal and risky advantage.

> So in my opinion, monitoring the CHT of the hottest cylinder and considering the redline is 110Â°C on the ground and 120Â°C in flight is good enough. This is especially true on the Europa where cooling is very good in  flight but very marginal on the ground.

> Remi Guerner

> F-PGKL, XS Monowheel, 912ULS, 1195 hours

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Read this topic online here:

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439699#439699

gsessare(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:09 am Post subject: Water Coolant Sensor location?

hello everybody, 

 

somebody knows how is the procces to leave this list?

 

regards

 

[quote] From: ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz

 Subject: Re: Re: Water Coolant Sensor location?

 Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2015 12:38:34 +1300

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 

 

 

 Absolutely agree with you Remi.

 Tim

 

 Tim Ward

 12 Waiwetu Street

 Fendalton,

 Christchurch,  8052

 New Zealand.

 

 ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz

 

 Ph 64 3 3515166

 Mob 0210640221

 

 

 > On 21/03/2015, at 10:31 pm, Remi Guerner <air.guerner(at)orange.fr> wrote:

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > In spite of what Rotax say in their Manuals, I do not think that monitoring coolant temperature is necessary. This is why:

 > 1. The coolant is heated by the cylinder heads. So obviously coolant temperature is always below cylinder head temperature. 

 > 2. Conventional water based coolant boils at 120°C at the 1.2 bar pressure, at sea level.

 > 3. Anytime the hottest cylinder CHT exceeds 120°C, there will be at least some local boiling. 

 > 3.1. Then, if the engine is running at cruise RPM or more, the water pump insures a good flow through the cylinder heads, the bubbles are pushed downstream to the cooler and condense, so there is no boiling over. 

 > 3.2. If the engine is at idle on the ground, while you are waiting for your take off clearance, then it will boil over. Moreover, as soon as CHT reaches 110°C, you must either shut down the engine or take off quickly. If you wait a few more minutes and let the CHT reach 115°C, then the only choice is to take off immediately. Then the CHT will decrease instantly. If you shut down at this point, then the heat transferred from the hot engine to the coolant will make it to exceed its boiling point and you are facing a big mess.

 > So the only advantage of monitoring the coolant temperature would be to allow the CHT to slightly exceed 120°C, for example during a full power climb in very hot conditions, while the coolant temp would stay slightly below 120°C. It seems to me this is a very marginal and risky advantage

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