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Herbgh(at)nctc.com
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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 Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 4:08 pm Post subject: reinforcing tape |
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Is it safe to substitute a non-aircraft product in critical component?
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Wondering also if this glass weave reinforcing tape would be suitable for
the underlayment for the large head rivets on the ribs? would need some
sort of hole punch to make the rivet holes...Herb
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12mm-Glassweave-Reinforcing-Tape-5523613-/3314112512
41?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4d29a66029
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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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Herbgh(at)nctc.com
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 5:28 pm Post subject: reinforcing tape |
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John
The Poly Fiber half inch Dacron reinforcing tape is almost a dollar a
yard...so looking for a suitable substitute seems in order...but safety
should always be the main concern...certainly... Then again...I have 6
wings to recover..
That said , if one could find a suitable material of similar or
better breaking strength...then I would have no problem using it.. The
poly fiber tape is a cross weave dacron polyester.. near as I can tell..
not all that strong...and does not have to be given the 17 rivets that
hold it to the ribs... top and bottom , if I counted correctly.. Very
easy to use however..
I am reminded that the Mini Max I flew for 60 or more hours used no
reinforcing at all..just the fabric covering glued to the ribs...
similar wing loading to the Firefly... I would not try that on a Firefly
given the minimal area of the metal ribs...
Always considering options and alternatives...... Thinking
about rib stitching....Herb
On 05/17/2015 07:07 PM, John Hauck wrote:
| Quote: |
Is it safe to substitute a non-aircraft product in critical component?
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Wondering also if this glass weave reinforcing tape would be suitable for
the underlayment for the large head rivets on the ribs? would need some
sort of hole punch to make the rivet holes...Herb
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12mm-Glassweave-Reinforcing-Tape-5523613-/3314112512
41?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4d29a66029
|
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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Herbgh(at)nctc.com
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 6:01 pm Post subject: reinforcing tape |
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Haven't gotten that far...maybe not? Just went to the Poly Fiber site
to see a short video on rib lacing...but it was a standard rib..not
tubular...
Figured out why prices are as they are...Ceconite,Poly Fiber and
Randolph coatings are owned by Consolidated Aircraft Coatings...
Herb
On 05/17/2015 08:51 PM, John Hauck wrote:
| Quote: |
Is rib stitching recommended for 5/16" round tube ribs?
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
I am reminded that the Mini Max I flew for 60 or more hours used no
reinforcing at all..just the fabric covering glued to the ribs...
similar wing loading to the Firefly... I would not try that on a Firefly
given the minimal area of the metal ribs...
Always considering options and alternatives...... Thinking
about rib stitching....Herb
|
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stuart(at)harnerfarm.net
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 7:38 pm Post subject: reinforcing tape |
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Herb,
I rib stitched and it was quite easy to do. Used the Poly Fiber reinforcing
tape that was wider than needed. The nice part about the Poly Fiber tape is
that it has adhesive on one side so I cleaned the fabric with MEK then just
stuck the tape down. Next, I used a small finish nail held in vice grips
and a propane torch to heat the nail. I could melt through the tape and the
fabric at every hole location. This made the stitching go MUCH easier.
I was cheap and used a piece of welding rod to make my own needle. I kept a
pair of pliers handy so that I could modify the bend(s) in the needle as
conditions dictated. There were a couple of places on each rib that required
some creative thinking about how to make the next stitch, but it was kind of
fun.
It took a couple of ribs to get the technique down and to get into a rhythm
but after that it went quite fast. I figured layout time was about the same
as for rivets and melting the holes was way faster than drilling all those
ribs so I had time to spare in the stitching time which admittedly would
take longer than pulling the rivets.
Rivets are fine. I just didn't want to really screw things up by drilling
lots of holes in small ribs, call it the chicken factor. Two big advantages
for me with stitching is the easy removal if needed and slightly smaller
"bumps" under the tape. Personal preference.
I have some tape and almost a full roll of stitching cord left over. If you
are interested in it send me a private email. I will have to go to the shop
to check quantities.
Stuart
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stuart(at)harnerfarm.net
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 7:38 pm Post subject: reinforcing tape |
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When I talked with Travis at Kolb he said that either would work just fine,
do what I wanted.
Personally I think not having a bunch of 1/8" holes in 5/16" tube is
stronger, but I have no proof either.
Stuart
As always, worth what you paid for it.
--
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 7:45 pm Post subject: reinforcing tape |
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Rib stitching is normally used on ribs with a cap strip or flat edges.
Tubing presents a problem with a tiny apex on a small tube edge.
The stitch on a 1/2" cap strip is a flat 1/2" wide flat stitch.
If you make a 5/16" or 1/4" stitch on a 5/16" round tube, the stitch will
pull the fabric and reinforcing tape down and around the top half of the
tube, causing a dimple, stressing the fabric at the stitch. Doesn't look
very professional and may not be as strong as a cap strip stitch.
That is why fabric rivets were developed for round tube ribs. I have
personal experience working with a friend's Kolb Slingshot with rib stitched
wing fabric. Not long after the Slingshot started flying, the prop began
drumming the inboard fabric enough to loosen the stitching and allow the
fabric to balloon above several inboard ribs. Caused a severe vibration and
an uncomfortable drumming noise. Took several test flights to discover the
problem. I flew close behind and above the Slingshot. At that time I saw
the fabric had pulled loose and was ballooned above the ribs. Didn't make
me feel good. I had flown the Slingshot earlier in the day at the request
of the owner to see if I could ID the problem. Flying it, I could not.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Haven't gotten that far...maybe not? Just went to the Poly Fiber site to
see a short video on rib lacing...but it was a standard rib..not tubular...
Figured out why prices are as they are...Ceconite,Poly Fiber and
Randolph coatings are owned by Consolidated Aircraft Coatings...
Herb
On 05/17/2015 08:51 PM, John Hauck wrote:
| Quote: |
Is rib stitching recommended for 5/16" round tube ribs?
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
|
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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 8:03 pm Post subject: reinforcing tape |
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Don't believe fabric rivets weaken the rib, but make it stronger. Once the
rivet is pulled, there is no longer a hole.
The wing and rib is constructed with holes, gussets, flanges, and rivets.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
When I talked with Travis at Kolb he said that either would work just fine,
do what I wanted.
Personally I think not having a bunch of 1/8" holes in 5/16" tube is
stronger, but I have no proof either.
Stuart
As always, worth what you paid for it.
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 8:09 pm Post subject: reinforcing tape |
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A small pencil tip soldering iron works great for burning rivet holes in the
fabric and tape, plus burning drain holes in wings and control surfaces.
Hope the other 99.9% of us that built according to the Kolb Manual didn't
screw our wings up. 
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Herb,
I was cheap and used a piece of welding rod to make my own needle. I kept a
pair of pliers handy so that I could modify the bend(s) in the needle as
conditions dictated. There were a couple of places on each rib that required
some creative thinking about how to make the next stitch, but it was kind of
fun.
Rivets are fine. I just didn't want to really screw things up by drilling
lots of holes in small ribs, call it the chicken factor. Two big advantages
for me with stitching is the easy removal if needed and slightly smaller
"bumps" under the tape. Personal preference.
Stuart
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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Richard Pike
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: reinforcing tape |
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John Ol' Buddy, hate to do this to ya, but... rib stitching a Kolb 5/16" rib has worked for me for 18 years, and counting. I rib stitched my MKIII wing, vertical fin, rudder, horizontal stab, elevator and ailerons when I built it, and none of the ribs, stitches, or anything else is showing the least bit of problem in any sense whatsoever. It works just fine. And we are still buds John, OK?
Get a big pot of coffee, a good friend, a couple of spare needles that you can bend up or modify to fit around the drag strut or anything else that might be inside and in the way because you still want everything to line up good - go for it. Takes about 90 minutes to 2 hours per wing wing once you and your helper get the hang of it and get into rhythm. Good times, good memories, thanks Greg, thanks Muff, for being there to help me.
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_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing. |
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