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tie breaker

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cjhukill(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 7:20 am Post subject: tie breaker

If you have  dual AHDRS with auto monitoring, and dual screens, the need for a tie breaker is  debatable . My dual Skyview provides this capability as do other EFIS systems.  You may not realize this, but you already have a tie breaker, as they call them  in jets, if you have an IPhone 5 or newer.  Use the compass ap that came  with the phone, and go to the second page of the ap, and therein is a very  accurate pitch and roll display, and it won’t tumble. I have played around with  it , maneuvering in my RV8 and have no problem returning to strait and level and  maintaining that, using that as a sole reference, (under a hood with a safety  pilot). You don’t get airspeed or altitude info, but target pitch and power is  all you need to fly anyway while you sort things out. Turn the IPhone's auto  lock feature to “never” and velcro the phone to the panel. If you fly lots of  hard IFR, then go ahead and get the real deal in your panel. If all you fly is  light IFR, like getting above a marine overcast on departure or down thru one  with an approach, then dual AHDRS with auto monitoring, and the IPhone tie  breaker may be all you need. There are probably better aviation aps that use the  ADRS chip in the IPhone or IPad or whatever devise you have with you , but you  may already have all the tie breaker that you need. Just  saying....



   [quote][b]

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Lew Gallagher

Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 402
Location: Greenville , SC

Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 8:16 am Post subject: tie breaker

Cool, Chris.  Never new I had that!

  

 Later, – Lew

   

  

 do not  archive

  







   [quote][b]

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bbreckenridge(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 8:25 am Post subject: tie breaker

I just grabbed my wife's iPhone 6 Plus - amazing!  Can't wait to put it in the plane and try it out.  Thanks!



On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 8:17 AM, Chris Hukill <cjhukill(at)cox.net (cjhukill(at)cox.net)> wrote:

[quote]   If you have  dual AHDRS with auto monitoring, and dual screens, the need for a tie breaker is  debatable . My dual Skyview provides this capability as do other EFIS systems.  You may not realize this, but you already have a tie breaker, as they call them  in jets, if you have an IPhone 5 or newer.  Use the compass ap that came  with the phone, and go to the second page of the ap, and therein is a very  accurate pitch and roll display, and it won’t tumble. I have played around with  it , maneuvering in my RV8 and have no problem returning to strait and level and  maintaining that, using that as a sole reference, (under a hood with a safety  pilot). You don’t get airspeed or altitude info, but target pitch and power is  all you need to fly anyway while you sort things out. Turn the IPhone's auto  lock feature to “never” and velcro the phone to the panel. If you fly lots of  hard IFR, then go ahead and get the real deal in your panel. If all you fly is  light IFR, like getting above a marine overcast on departure or down thru one  with an approach, then dual AHDRS with auto monitoring, and the IPhone tie  breaker may be all you need. There are probably better aviation aps that use the  ADRS chip in the IPhone or IPad or whatever devise you have with you , but you  may already have all the tie breaker that you need. Just  saying....



    	  Quote: 	
		  



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EdKranz

Joined: 29 Dec 2010
Posts: 132
Location: Hastings, MN

Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 8:41 am Post subject: tie breaker

That is cool.

One thing to be careful of in that app. After 45 degrees in either roll

direction, it "flips" to think you're holding the phone in portrait vs

landscape. My guess is that the aviation based apps like this would be much

better.

On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 11:20 AM, Bruce Breckenridge <

bbreckenridge(at)gmail.com> wrote:

[quote] I just grabbed my wife's iPhone 6 Plus - amazing!  Can't wait to put it in

 the plane and try it out.  Thanks!

 On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 8:17 AM, Chris Hukill <cjhukill(at)cox.net> wrote:

>  If you have dual AHDRS with auto monitoring, and dual screens, the need

> for a tie breaker is debatable . My dual Skyview provides this capability

> as do other EFIS systems. You may not realize this, but you already have a

> tie breaker, as they call them in jets, if you have an IPhone 5 or newer

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Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 8:55 am Post subject: tie breaker

I just tried this.  That's where his key words of setting your phone to rotation lock is important.  I always keep my phone rotate locked and it worked properly that way, but yes, if you turn that off it could be very problematic

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Lenny Iszak

Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 270

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: tie breaker

I would not rely on that as a tiebreaker. Once you get into a turn the centripetal forces start messing with the attitude solution much like your own senses, which we all know better not to rely on. The steeper the turn the bigger the error.

To correct for the centripetal error you need to factor in speed, and I don't think the compass app does that, but I could be wrong, I never tried the app in flight. 



Lenny

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cjhukill(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:57 am Post subject: tie breaker

Lenny

The purpose of a "tie breaker" is to verify which of your attitude 

indications are correct when two systems are in disagreement. It is mostly 

redundant information in modern EFIS systems as the EFIS will compare it's 

attitude information with pitot- static and GPS data and figure out which 

one is in error from that. It then alerts the pilot with it's determination 

of which attitude system is in fault. The pilot only has to verify that 

recommendation and the EFIS will run both screens on the good AHDRS . This 

all happens in a few seconds. The pilot should have a means of verifying the 

attitude information during those few seconds, hence a tie breaker. Any 

precession error or centripetal  forces aren't a factor as your only 

interested in the displayed attitude of the tie breaker during the short 

period of time that your verifying the EFIS's solution to the displayed 

error. In VMC you could just look out the window, or in the bad old days you 

could try to fly with needle ball and airspeed. Heck we had to be able to 

fly an approach using only an airspeed indicator, altimeter, and an electric 

turn and bank even with all of it's precession errors. A modern standby 

suite should be able to give you all the info a needle, ball and airspeed 

gives you, but the panel real estate dedicated to those old dials would be 

better spent on a second screen with it's second, monitored AHDRS. Your 

IPhone velcroed to the panel with it's attitude info displayed could then be 

your tiebreaker.

Chris

Time: 03:45:12 PM PST US

Subject: Re: tie breaker

From: "Lenny Iszak" <lenard(at)rapiddecision.com>

I would not rely on that as a tiebreaker. Once you get into a turn the 

centripetal

forces start messing with the attitude solution much like your own senses,

which we all know better not to rely on. The steeper the turn the bigger the

error.

To correct for the centripetal error you need to factor in speed, and I 

don't think

the compass app does that, but I could be wrong, I never tried the app in

flight.



Lenny

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