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cloudcraft(at)aol.com
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 Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:10 pm Post subject: AC680F Info |
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Glenn,
This will amuse you -- probably force a few hundred questions as well.
Note that the check list is dated. Transponder should be ON for all movement now that many airports have ASDE-X in operation.
This is for a pressurized model, disregard reference to any of that. I'm providing this help you develop a flow pattern that will work in all Commanders and give you some operating ideas on your model.
Speeds are for a long-body model.
If this check list is found at the bottom of a crater with your airplane on top of it, I do not want to hear from your bereaved widow nor her attorney; it is only for use by people I have taught how to fly and I'm not in that business at this time.
Watch the controversy that is caused by my advocating the pulling the aux hydraulic circuit breaker after gear retraction. This will be educational for you and after the debate has flamed out, you can come to your own conclusion.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
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AC680FLP_CHECKLIST_1.pdf |
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IGSO540_FUEL_FLOW_CHART.pdf |
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michaelrorth
Joined: 04 Feb 2011
Posts: 65
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:12 pm Post subject: AC680F Info |
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>If this check list is found at the bottom of a crater with your airplane on top of it, I do not want to hear from your bereaved widow nor her attorney; it is only for use by people I have taught how to fly and I'm not in that business at this time.
This disclaimer is probably the most elegant I have ever seen.
Congratulations!
Michael
From: Keith S. Gordon (cloudcraft(at)aol.com)
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2015 4:09 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com (commander-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: AC680F Info
Glenn,
This will amuse you -- probably force a few hundred questions as well.
Note that the check list is dated. Transponder should be ON for all movement now that many airports have ASDE-X in operation.
This is for a pressurized model, disregard reference to any of that. I'm providing this help you develop a flow pattern that will work in all Commanders and give you some operating ideas on your model.
Speeds are for a long-body model.
If this check list is found at the bottom of a crater with your airplane on top of it, I do not want to hear from your bereaved widow nor her attorney; it is only for use by people I have taught how to fly and I'm not in that business at this time.
Watch the controversy that is caused by my advocating the pulling the aux hydraulic circuit breaker after gear retraction. This will be educational for you and after the debate has flamed out, you can come to your own conclusion.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6081 / Virus Database: 4392/10167 - Release Date: 07/05/15
[quote][b]
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glennh(at)GMAIL.COM
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:45 pm Post subject: AC680F Info |
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I didn't get a checklist or don't know how to download it. I'll keep looking but wanted to reply to a few of you as I've been out at the airport all day.
I pretty much fly my 310 in the same way you're talking about flying the commander. I don't push the props forward until I'm almost down on the ground. I also don't jockey the throttles forward or back as my grandfather (who started me flying when I was 10) pretty much beat that into my head. One thing I do though is if I need to come down and don't want to add too much speed I'll pitch the props more and back off a little on the Manifold.
I have every intention to learn how to properly fly the airplane and won't be bringing over bad habits that could cause problems. I want to learn every system as well as possible and learn all the necessary steps to keep the airplane flying as long as possible. I do fly LOP everywhere in the 310, mainly because the CHT stays a lot cooler there and I don't lose much airspeed in the process. Before I do this in the Commander though I will learn the systems and possible problems. If ROP works better I'm in agreement that gas is cheaper than cylinders, just like to know as much as possible for making a decision.
I appreciate all of you tuning in as I was a bit afraid I was buying a plane that didn't have much support behind it. Its looking like there are enough of you out there to help me keep it going and that is refreshing.
Yoda, as you guys call him, was nice enough to spend quite a bit of time talking to me and telling me everything to watch out for. I was trying to get him to do the pre-buy on it but he's been covered up and I had to get a shop in TN to go out there with me to get it done. I'm trying to learn as much as possible myself to make sure they look at all of the important parts.
The main thing I'm concerned about is the left engine is literally sitting and emptying itself of oil. It hasn't been flown since last December as far as I can tell and it had made a puddle for the hour it sat on the ramp for me to look at it. I've been told it probably isn't anything major and the shop that does the annual seemed surprised to hear it was leaking as they said the engines were really tight when they saw them last. I am a little suspect though as I see oil all over the wings, gear and top of the wing on both engines, but this may be normal.
Thanks to all of you for all the information. I am soaking it all in.
Glenn
On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 8:10 PM, Michael Orth <mosurf(at)xplornet.com (mosurf(at)xplornet.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | >If this check list is found at the bottom of a crater with your airplane on top of it, I do not want to hear from your bereaved widow nor her attorney; it is only for use by people I have taught how to fly and I'm not in that business at this time.
This disclaimer is probably the most elegant I have ever seen.
Congratulations!
Michael
From: Keith S. Gordon (cloudcraft(at)aol.com)
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2015 4:09 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com (commander-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: AC680F Info
Glenn,
This will amuse you -- probably force a few hundred questions as well.
Note that the check list is dated. Transponder should be ON for all movement now that many airports have ASDE-X in operation.
This is for a pressurized model, disregard reference to any of that. I'm providing this help you develop a flow pattern that will work in all Commanders and give you some operating ideas on your model.
Speeds are for a long-body model.
If this check list is found at the bottom of a crater with your airplane on top of it, I do not want to hear from your bereaved widow nor her attorney; it is only for use by people I have taught how to fly and I'm not in that business at this time.
Watch the controversy that is caused by my advocating the pulling the aux hydraulic circuit breaker after gear retraction. This will be educational for you and after the debate has flamed out, you can come to your own conclusion.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6081 / Virus Database: 4392/10167 - Release Date: 07/05/15
| Quote: |
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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--
--glenn hancock
You can't win an argument with an ignorant person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
[quote][b]
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n55bz(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:14 pm Post subject: AC680F Info |
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Keith,
About four years ago I experienced a complete hydraulic failure in the only remaining Grand Renaissance Shrike on the way to Fort Worth. The hydraulic pressure switch developed a leak so that the electric hydraulic pump would have eventually run dry. I noticed the hydraulic pressure fluctuate between about zero and 480 psi. I immediately pulled the Hyd. Pump CB and thought "Keith said to pull this after take off". I had done it regularly with my own Commander but had slipped into complacency.
Since I did not know how much hydraulic fluid was left, I elected to make a no flap landing and save what little may be there for one last desperate brake attempt. As it turned out I was down to walking speed by the 6,000 ft turnoff using just aerodynamic braking.
Incidentally the nose gear did not extend on its own on hydraulic pressure loss. It remained up and locked until I lowered the gear. I had to slow quite a bit and do two abrupt pull ups to get it down and locked.
The landing and roll out were uneventful.
Had I used your procedure, I would have lowered the flaps and had brakes and nose wheel steering available. Thank God for the 8,002' X 200' runway and that huge AeroCommander tail. I was able to hold the nose wheel up until about 30 kts. and the rudder made directional control easy.
Kindest regards,
Bill
On Jul 5, 2015, at 6:09 PM, Keith S. Gordon <cloudcraft(at)aol.com (cloudcraft(at)aol.com)> wrote:
[quote]Glenn,
This will amuse you -- probably force a few hundred questions as well.
Note that the check list is dated. Transponder should be ON for all movement now that many airports have ASDE-X in operation.
This is for a pressurized model, disregard reference to any of that. I'm providing this help you develop a flow pattern that will work in all Commanders and give you some operating ideas on your model.
Speeds are for a long-body model.
If this check list is found at the bottom of a crater with your airplane on top of it, I do not want to hear from your bereaved widow nor her attorney; it is only for use by people I have taught how to fly and I'm not in that business at this time.
Watch the controversy that is caused by my advocating the pulling the aux hydraulic circuit breaker after gear retraction. This will be educational for you and after the debate has flamed out, you can come to your own conclusion.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
<AC680FLP CHECKLIST 1.pdf>
<IGSO540 FUEL FLOW CHART.pdf>
[b]
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tfisher(at)commandergroup
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:27 am Post subject: AC680F Info |
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I wasn't so lucky with my 680FLP (Mr.RPM), I had zero pressure and with no flaps, brakes or steering landing was fine but near the end of the runway it rolled off the side of the runway and traversed a ditch which finished the plane for me.
Tom
On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 9:14 PM, William Boelte <n55bz(at)cox.net (n55bz(at)cox.net)> wrote:
[quote]Keith,
About four years ago I experienced a complete hydraulic failure in the only remaining Grand Renaissance Shrike on the way to Fort Worth. The hydraulic pressure switch developed a leak so that the electric hydraulic pump would have eventually run dry. I noticed the hydraulic pressure fluctuate between about zero and 480 psi. I immediately pulled the Hyd. Pump CB and thought "Keith said to pull this after take off". I had done it regularly with my own Commander but had slipped into complacency.
Since I did not know how much hydraulic fluid was left, I elected to make a no flap landing and save what little may be there for one last desperate brake attempt. As it turned out I was down to walking speed by the 6,000 ft turnoff using just aerodynamic braking.
Incidentally the nose gear did not extend on its own on hydraulic pressure loss. It remained up and locked until I lowered the gear. I had to slow quite a bit and do two abrupt pull ups to get it down and locked.
The landing and roll out were uneventful.
Had I used your procedure, I would have lowered the flaps and had brakes and nose wheel steering available. Thank God for the 8,002' X 200' runway and that huge AeroCommander tail. I was able to hold the nose wheel up until about 30 kts. and the rudder made directional control easy.
Kindest regards,
Bill
On Jul 5, 2015, at 6:09 PM, Keith S. Gordon <cloudcraft(at)aol.com (cloudcraft(at)aol.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Glenn,
This will amuse you -- probably force a few hundred questions as well.
Note that the check list is dated. Transponder should be ON for all movement now that many airports have ASDE-X in operation.
This is for a pressurized model, disregard reference to any of that. I'm providing this help you develop a flow pattern that will work in all Commanders and give you some operating ideas on your model.
Speeds are for a long-body model.
If this check list is found at the bottom of a crater with your airplane on top of it, I do not want to hear from your bereaved widow nor her attorney; it is only for use by people I have taught how to fly and I'm not in that business at this time.
Watch the controversy that is caused by my advocating the pulling the aux hydraulic circuit breaker after gear retraction. This will be educational for you and after the debate has flamed out, you can come to your own conclusion.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
<AC680FLP CHECKLIST 1.pdf>
<IGSO540 FUEL FLOW CHART.pdf>
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
[b]
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cloudcraft(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:06 am Post subject: AC680F Info |
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Bill,
Glad your outcome was OK. Good bit of piloting there.
Tom, your incident was heart breaking, especially since all of the work your put into your MR RPM.
I've had 3 total hydraulic failures, (two in a 500A Colemill and one 680FLP) all turned out OK ... but I know the trick.
To give credit where credit is due, Morris Kernick put the bee in my bonnet about disabling the electric aux hydraulic pump. He put it in very clear terms while I watched a Commander undergoing an annual at this hangar in Hayward 25+ years ago.
I thought about what he told me and then looked at it through the perspective of Ted Smith's next design, the AeroStar. The 'Star did have a breaker type switch for the electric aux pump specifically to disable it it cruise.
I think it should be a retrofit on all Commanders with electric aux hydraulic pumps.
Wing Commander Gordon
--
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nick(at)container.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:28 am Post subject: AC680F Info |
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Wing Commander Gordon,
We fly a 690A . After losing the Hydraulic accumulator in flight we pulled the breaker on the aux hydraulic and made a safe landing ..Since then our practice is to pull the aux hydraulic breaker before takeoff..Is there a reason to leave the breaker in before takeoff and pull later ? ( possibly steering and breaks )..thanks,Nick N674nm
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Keith S. Gordon
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 12:06 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: AC680F Info
Bill,
Glad your outcome was OK. Good bit of piloting there.
Tom, your incident was heart breaking, especially since all of the work your put into your MR RPM.
I've had 3 total hydraulic failures, (two in a 500A Colemill and one 680FLP) all turned out OK ... but I know the trick.
To give credit where credit is due, Morris Kernick put the bee in my bonnet about disabling the electric aux hydraulic pump. He put it in very clear terms while I watched a Commander undergoing an annual at this hangar in Hayward 25+ years ago.
I thought about what he told me and then looked at it through the perspective of Ted Smith's next design, the AeroStar. The 'Star did have a breaker type switch for the electric aux pump specifically to disable it it cruise.
I think it should be a retrofit on all Commanders with electric aux hydraulic pumps.
Wing Commander Gordon
--
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cloudcraft(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:37 am Post subject: AC680F Info |
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| Quote: | | Is there a reason to leave the breaker in before takeoff and pull later ? |
Nick,
Yes. If a meteor where to strike your Commander in just the right place, you'd lose hydraulic fluid during taxi, meaning you'd lose nose wheel steering and brakes.
A Turbo Commander has the advantage of beta range on the props; you can always stop, (back up if you need to) and steer with differential beta / power.
Of course, if you did disable your aux pump after engines start and noticed you lost hydraulic pressure, you could re-engage the breaker if you had your wits about you, and have an easier time of steering back to the ramp.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
--
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John Vormbaum
Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 273
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:55 am Post subject: AC680F Info |
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I had a hydraulic failure in my 500B; a hard line in the wing root fractured. It would have been a flawless landing, but I was seduced by fluctuating hyd. pressure AFTER I put the gear down, and before the nose wheel locked. I thought I had enough pressure to cycle the gear….not the case.
On the bright side, landing at Stockton, I held the nose off until I lost elevator authority, and veeeeerrry gently set it down on the nose wheel, which rolled for a bit and then collapsed while still going 5 knots or so. Only consequence was a damaged gear door and one broken bell crank. Directional control was never in doubt, and with both engines running, asymmetric thrust made it easy. I think Morris had me back in the air in a day or two.
The two lessons I learned:
1) Once you put the gear handle down, after a hyd. failure, LEAVE IT THERE. This was actually beaten into me by Morris and others, but the beatings evidently didn’t take.
2) A hydraulic failure in a Commander, even if slightly mismanaged, isn’t a crisis unless you have to do some kind of high performance landing. With enough runway, it matters not.
/John
[quote]On Jul 6, 2015, at 12:27 PM, Nick Martin <nick(at)container.com (nick(at)container.com)> wrote:
Wing Commander Gordon,
We fly a 690A . After losing the Hydraulic accumulator in flight we pulled the breaker on the aux hydraulic and made a safe landing ..Since then our practice is to pull the aux hydraulic breaker before takeoff..Is there a reason to leave the breaker in before takeoff and pull later ? ( possibly steering and breaks )..thanks,Nick N674nm
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Keith S. GordonSent: Monday, July 06, 2015 12:06 PMTo: commander-list(at)matronics.com (commander-list(at)matronics.com)Subject: Re: AC680F Info
Bill, Glad your outcome was OK. Good bit of piloting there.Tom, your incident was heart breaking, especially since all of the work your put into your MR RPM.I've had 3 total hydraulic failures, (two in a 500A Colemill and one 680FLP) all turned out OK ... but I know the trick.To give credit where credit is due, Morris Kernick put the bee in my bonnet about disabling the electric aux hydraulic pump. He put it in very clear terms while I watched a Commander undergoing an annual at this hangar in Hayward 25+ years ago.I thought about what he told me and then looked at it through the perspective of Ted Smith's next design, the AeroStar. The 'Star did have a breaker type switch for the electric aux pump specifically to disable it it cruise.I think it should be a retrofit on all Commanders with electric aux hydraulic pumps.Wing Commander Gordon
--
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List |
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glennh(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 3:32 pm Post subject: AC680F Info |
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Question: The 680Fp that I'm looking at has winglets. Did those come from the factory with those or aftermarket and if aftermarket, how do they effect the flying characteristics compared to the number in the manual?
Thanks,
Glenn
On 7/6/15 3:55 PM, John Vormbaum wrote:
[quote] I had a hydraulic failure in my 500B; a hard line in the wing root fractured. It would have been a flawless landing, but I was seduced by fluctuating hyd. pressure AFTER I put the gear down, and before the nose wheel locked. I thought I had enough pressure to cycle the gear….not the case.
On the bright side, landing at Stockton, I held the nose off until I lost elevator authority, and veeeeerrry gently set it down on the nose wheel, which rolled for a bit and then collapsed while still going 5 knots or so. Only consequence was a damaged gear door and one broken bell crank. Directional control was never in doubt, and with both engines running, asymmetric thrust made it easy. I think Morris had me back in the air in a day or two.
The two lessons I learned:
1) Once you put the gear handle down, after a hyd. failure, LEAVE IT THERE. This was actually beaten into me by Morris and others, but the beatings evidently didn’t take.
2) A hydraulic failure in a Commander, even if slightly mismanaged, isn’t a crisis unless you have to do some kind of high performance landing. With enough runway, it matters not.
/John
| Quote: | On Jul 6, 2015, at 12:27 PM, Nick Martin <nick(at)container.com (nick(at)container.com)> wrote:
Wing Commander Gordon,
We fly a 690A . After losing the Hydraulic accumulator in flight we pulled the breaker on the aux hydraulic and made a safe landing ..Since then our practice is to pull the aux hydraulic breaker before takeoff..Is there a reason to leave the breaker in before takeoff and pull later ? ( possibly steering and breaks )..thanks,Nick N674nm
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Keith S. Gordon Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 12:06 PM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com (commander-list(at)matronics.com) Subject: Re: AC680F Info
Bill, Glad your outcome was OK. Good bit of piloting there. Tom, your incident was heart breaking, especially since all of the work your put into your MR RPM. I've had 3 total hydraulic failures, (two in a 500A Colemill and one 680FLP) all turned out OK ... but I know the trick. To give credit where credit is due, Morris Kernick put the bee in my bonnet about disabling the electric aux hydraulic pump. He put it in very clear terms while I watched a Commander undergoing an annual at this hangar in Hayward 25+ years ago. I thought about what he told me and then looked at it through the perspective of Ted Smith's next design, the AeroStar. The 'Star did have a breaker type switch for the electric aux pump specifically to disable it it cruise. I think it should be a retrofit on all Commanders with electric aux hydraulic pumps. Wing Commander Gordon
-----Original Message----- From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca (tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca)> To: commander-list <commander-list(at)matronics.com (commander-list(at)matronics.com)> Sent: Mon, Jul 6, 2015 10:28 am Subject: Re: AC680F Info I wasn't so lucky with my 680FLP (Mr.RPM), I had zero pressure and with no flaps, brakes or steering landing was fine but near the end of the runway it rolled off the side of the runway and traversed a ditch which finished the plane for me.
Tom
On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 9:14 PM, William Boelte <n55bz(at)cox.net (n55bz(at)cox.net)> wrote:
Keith,
About four years ago I experienced a complete hydraulic failure in the only remaining Grand Renaissance Shrike on the way to Fort Worth. The hydraulic pressure switch developed a leak so that the electric hydraulic pump would have eventually run dry. I noticed the hydraulic pressure fluctuate between about zero and 480 psi. I immediately pulled the Hyd. Pump CB and thought "Keith said to pull this after take off". I had done it regularly with my own Commander but had slipped into complacency.
Since I did not know how much hydraulic fluid was left, I elected to make a no flap landing and save what little may be there for one last desperate brake attempt. As it turned out I was down to walking speed by the 6,000 ft turnoff using just aerodynamic braking.
Incidentally the nose gear did not extend on its own on hydraulic pressure loss. It remained up and locked until I lowered the gear. I had to slow quite a bit and do two abrupt pull ups to get it down and locked.
The landing and roll out were uneventful.
Had I used your procedure, I would have lowered the flaps and had brakes and nose wheel steering available. Thank God for the 8,002' X 200' runway and that huge AeroCommander tail. I was able to hold the nose wheel up until about 30 kts. and the rudder made directional control easy. Kindest regards,
Bill
On Jul 5, 2015, at 6:09 PM, Keith S. Gordon < cloudcraft(at)aol.com (cloudcraft(at)aol.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Glenn,
This will amuse you -- probably force a few hundred questions as well.
Note that the check list is dated. Transponder should be ON for all movement now that many airports have ASDE-X in operation.
This is for a pressurized model, disregard reference to any of that. I'm providing this help you develop a flow pattern that will work in all Commanders and give you some operating ideas on your model.
Speeds are for a long-body model.
If this check list is found at the bottom of a crater with your airplane on top of it, I do not want to hear from your bereaved widow nor her attorney; it is only for use by people I have taught how to fly and I'm not in that business at this time.
Watch the controversy that is caused by my advocating the pulling the aux hydraulic circuit breaker after gear retraction. This will be educational for you and after the debate has flamed out, you can come to your own conclusion.
Wing Commander Gordon Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
<AC680FLP CHECKLIST 1.pdf>
<IGSO540 FUEL FLOW CHART.pdf>
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
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cloudcraft(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 3:59 pm Post subject: AC680F Info |
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The winglets are aftermarket on all piston Commanders (and most Turbines). Hopefully they're AeroDyne (Commander Aero of Ohio) and not some of knock-offs that I've seen. Sir Barry should be able to tell you what's on (soon to be) your plane.
AeroDyne (ala Dick Wartinger) had the winglets for the Aero Commanders tested in the wind tunnel at Wright-Patterson. According to Dick, it was determined they were "as good as could be" aerodynamically and are built by a shop with PMA approval that makes aircraft structural parts.
Reports from owners vary -- some say they see a 5 KIAS increase in speed, some say they see nothing.
Even Dick Wartinger said the real performance booster are the flap gap seals.
Certainly there's a number of owners on the list that can give you their real world experience.
They should not affect V speeds at all; no recertification flight testing was done to change the flight manual as far as I know. Bill Leff may have more insight, if he's listening in.
By the way, do the winglets have reocognition lights? Those alone are worth the install price. in my opinion.
Wing Commander Gordon
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barry.collman(at)air-brit
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| Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:20 am Post subject: AC680F Info |
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Hello Keith and a big welcome to CommanderLand Glenn!
The winglets are the genuine article, installed under STC SA1381GL on February 22nd 2005.
I think they do have the recognition lights.
Moe also had the Miller nose installed (STC SA585SW), in January 2002.
Glenn, you’ll have no doubt noticed that the 680F(P) isn’t shown on the Type Certificate Data Sheet No. 2A4 as one of the specific Models.
This is because the 680F(P) is treated as a Model 680F, the pressurisation system being considered an optional extra.
You’ll also no doubt have noticed that the Model shown on the s/n plate is “680F”.
The 680F & 680F(P) shared the same Model unit number sequence in their serial numbers.
For instance, there’s the following examples:
680F-1202-106, a 680F
680F-1204-107, a 680F(P)
680F-1206-108, a 680F
Best Regards,
Barry Collman
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Keith S. Gordon
Sent: 07 July 2015 00:49
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: AC680F Info
The winglets are aftermarket on all piston Commanders (and most Turbines). Hopefully they're AeroDyne (Commander Aero of Ohio) and not some of knock-offs that I've seen. Sir Barry should be able to tell you what's on (soon to be) your plane.
AeroDyne (ala Dick Wartinger) had the winglets for the Aero Commanders tested in the wind tunnel at Wright-Patterson. According to Dick, it was determined they were "as good as could be" aerodynamically and are built by a shop with PMA approval that makes aircraft structural parts.
Reports from owners vary -- some say they see a 5 KIAS increase in speed, some say they see nothing.
Even Dick Wartinger said the real performance booster are the flap gap seals.
Certainly there's a number of owners on the list that can give you their real world experience.
They should not affect V speeds at all; no recertification flight testing was done to change the flight manual as far as I know. Bill Leff may have more insight, if he's listening in.
By the way, do the winglets have reocognition lights? Those alone are worth the install price. in my opinion.
Wing Commander Gordon
--
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List |
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