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Typical mass of paint?

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clivesutton

Joined: 23 Jan 2013
Posts: 187
Location: KENILWORTH

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:08 am Post subject: Typical mass of paint?

Can anyone tell me what painting added to the weight of their mono please?  I appreciate it might seem like a 'how long is a piece of string' question . . . 



The amount and quality of the filling & sanding done so far seems to be reasonable/not excessive and I'm planning to use 2-pack acrylic - applied by someone who knows what they are doing with a/c painting

graeme bird

Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 434

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: Typical mass of paint?

but what's the point of the question, you have to paint it and you are going to use the minimum; I must have used about  7 -8 ltrs of 2 pack base coat and similar for top coat. Most of the weight of the can evaporates, probably a third of it goes on the floor or through the fans.

_________________
Graeme Bird
kit4 (Wagstaff) TBD
Kit3 G-CLXU (Gregory) mono 914 xs Woodcomp
Kit2 G-PATS - (kesterton) Mono Classic 912 warpdrive
Kit 1 G-UMPY - Mono Classic/XS 912S, Woodcomp G(@)gdbmk.co.uk

JonathanMilbank

Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 388
Location: Aberdeen area

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:16 pm Post subject: Re: Typical mass of paint?

Excuse me if I set myself up to be shot down, but I vaguely recall from when my Classic Mono got painted in 1996 that two-pack (the poisonous stuff which needs clever breathing apparatus to be worn while spraying, or else you die) contains no solvents.



I was given to understand that apart from any overspray, all of the weight of the contents of the paint tins ends up on the aircraft. Hence the need for a skilled person with the spray gun, which is why I paid an expert.

clivesutton

Joined: 23 Jan 2013
Posts: 187
Location: KENILWORTH

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Typical mass of paint?

The point of my question is that ive got a prediction spreadsheet running to estimate the empty weight and need to put something in for the paint.  The purpose of the spreadsheet is to help make pre-fit choices about instrumentation, battery placement etc before being stuck with whatever drops out of the final weighing and avoid having to add eg lead to achieve w&b.

JonathanMilbank

Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 388
Location: Aberdeen area

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:59 pm Post subject: Re: Typical mass of paint?

It's impossible, I would suggest, to predict the final W & B with the best spreadsheets that money can buy. If you're going to have a 912 pulling you through the sky and you install much the same kit as most others, then the C of G will almost take care of itself. I can't see any substitute for simply getting on with it and doing the measurements at the end. I left myself with the option at the end of placing the battery either in the engine bay or behind the seats in my Classic, but maybe that option isn't so attractive in the XS. But then again, why not? It's such an easy fix!

clivesutton

Joined: 23 Jan 2013
Posts: 187
Location: KENILWORTH

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:42 pm Post subject: Re: Typical mass of paint?

As I have just finished this task I thought I'd update those interested as to the results.  



I paid an expert to do the painting but did much of the hard graft (yes, sanding and fill, sand and fill - weep - sand and fill . . . ) myself - about 150 hours of work.  The before/after mass figures for the whole mono airframe without anything else installed (but including u/c) were:  218kg before, 236kg after - so about 30lbs added due to painting and finishing.  It took 3 coats of Lesonol 540 primer and 3 coats of 2-pack acrylic and plenty of sanding/profiling and wet-flatting in between each primer coat.  



One interesting piece of advice was to try and avoid choosing any 'special' tint of topcoat white and to write down what paint was used - so that any subsequent touch-ups or resprays are not made more difficult by trying to match colours.

davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:55 am Post subject: Typical mass of paint?

Clive, unless there has been a slip of the typewriter or the brain 236 - 218 = 18kg or 39.6lbs. It does raise the question as to whether gel coat is not actually lighter, and my gel coated/914/wobbly prop/fully eqipped XS is one of the lightest in the fleet. It only takes perfect preparation of an absolutely true, absolutely matt surface, one coat of gel coat sprayed by an expert, then you wet and dry most (?2/3) of it off. No primer, no UV coat needed and I am pretty certain my expert didn't use 40 lbs anyway before I sanded most of it off. The other advantage is that you end up with the perfect laminar flow surface - feels just like a young lady's thigh (although such memories are sadly fading!) 

Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ (833lbs) 

   

 

On 2015-07-21 08:42, Clive Sutton wrote: [quote]  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "Clive Sutton" <clive.maf(at)googlemail.com (clive.maf(at)googlemail.com)>



As I have just finished this task I thought I'd update those interested as to the results.  



I paid an expert to do the painting but did much of the hard graft (yes, sanding and fill, sand and fill - weep - sand and fill . . . ) myself - about 150 hours of work.  The before/after mass figures for the whole mono airframe without anything else installed (but including u/c) were:  218kg before, 236kg after - so about 30lbs added due to painting and finishing.  It took 3 coats of Lesonol 540 primer and 3 coats of 2-pack acrylic and plenty of sanding/profiling and wet-flatting in between each primer coat.  



One interesting piece of advice was to try and avoid choosing any 'special' tint of topcoat white and to write down what paint was used - so that any subsequent touch-ups or resprays are not made more difficult by trying to match colours.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445008#445008



ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

ics.com

.matronics.com/contribution



	
 [b]

clivesutton

Joined: 23 Jan 2013
Posts: 187
Location: KENILWORTH

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:13 am Post subject: Re: Typical mass of paint?

Hi David, yes you are right of course. and thanks for correcting my post.  



The paint was 30lb, the other 10lbs or so is the mass of MODs 24, 52 and a special extended baggage bay (to the G-WUFF recipe) between weighings.  



The advantages of the 'young ladies thigh' finish are many - though i think my arms may have fallen off attempting it.  Wrapping in Oratex must be another alternative to painting (it has been done apparently)

spcialeffects

Joined: 29 Aug 2012
Posts: 306
Location: Kent

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:45 am Post subject: Re: Typical mass of paint?

I have been thinking about the finish of my aircraft and like the idea of gel coat. Who was your expert David?

Thanks Frank

davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:59 am Post subject: Typical mass of paint?

Frank, Roger Targett (of Targett Aviation), who is an LAA inspector who has supervised 5 or 6 Europa builds and repaired lots, as well as having a life time's experience repairing gliders and power planes. I do not think there is any greater Fibreglass expert in the UK. 

Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ 

   

 

On 2015-07-21 18:45, spcialeffects wrote: [quote]  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "spcialeffects" <spcialeffects(at)aol.com (spcialeffects(at)aol.com)>



I have been thinking about the finish of my aircraft and like the idea of gel coat. Who was your expert David?

Thanks Frank





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445029#445029



ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

ics.com

.matronics.com/contribution



	
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