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Soundproofing

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kearney

Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:23 am Post subject: Soundproofing

Hi



Now that I have a few hours on my -10, I am thinking about installing some soundproofing. At KOSH I saw a demo of the Sound-Ex soundproofing at the Plane Patterns booth. IT seemed like a very effective and light product.



Given that I don't have access to the floor wells, I was wondering if anyone can provide guidance on where retrofitted soundproofing has proven the most effective (ie. cabin side firewall / side panels etc, under front seats etc.



Is the Sound-Ex product effective?



Cheers



Les

jdriggs49(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:49 am Post subject: Soundproofing

I used it in my -10 and it helped a bunch

Now that isn't saying that it's gonna be as quiet as an airliner but it helps

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: RV10-List: Soundproofing

 From: kearney@shaw.ca

 Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 10:23:29 -0700

 To: rv10-list@matronics.com

 --> RV10-List message posted by: "kearney" <kearney@shaw.ca>

 Hi

 Now that I have a few hours on my -10, I am thinking about installing some soundproofing. At KOSH I saw a demo of the Sound-Ex soundproofing at the Plane Patterns booth. IT seemed like a very effective and light product.

 Given that I don't have access to the floor wells, I was wondering if anyone can provide guidance on where retrofitted soundproofing has proven the most effective (ie. cabin side firewall / side panels etc, under front seats etc.

 Is the Sound-Ex product effective?

 Cheers

 Les

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445264#445264

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  [quote][b]

rv10flyer(at)live.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:50 am Post subject: Soundproofing

Les;

For what its worth.

The best soundproofing I have found is where I can hear it. I bought Zulu 2 

headsets and the plane is as quiet as I will ever make it.

With that said. I used heat insulation and a spray on sound insulator that 

dissipated the noise significantly but in the end, weight and ease wise, I 

determined that the headset investment was the best route.



Pascal

--

kearney

Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:38 am Post subject: Soundproofing

Hi 



Since I posted this I started working through the VAF archives etc. I ended up researching Abesco FP200 foam that I read about on the VAF forums.



This would seem to be a good product to install under the floor pans as it is an expanding fire stop foam and does have some noise damping properties as well. The lightening holes would provide installation access. When cured it is a very light foam. 



Has anyone on the list used this?



As I understand it, one limitation is that it should not be used in places where temps normally exceed 150-200C on an ongoing basis. Does anyone have any idea as to what the skin temps are near the exhausts?



Lastly, here is an interesting demo of the differences between fire-blocks vs fire-stops. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djB4dmfHhQk



Cheers



Les

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: Soundproofing

I'm with RV10Flyer; the best sound reduction/pound is from a good headset.

Start there, then decide if you need more. (My personal answer was "no".)



However, I did have to do something about the draft in the back; passengers in the back had cold heads and hot feet.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

kearney

Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:48 pm Post subject: Soundproofing

Bob



What did you do for the back pax?



Cheers



Les



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jul 27, 2015, at 17:04, Bob Turner <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> wrote:

 

 

 

 I'm with RV10Flyer; the best sound reduction/pound is from a good headset.

 Start there, then decide if you need more. (My personal answer was "no".)

 

 However, I did have to do something about the draft in the back; passengers in the back had cold heads and hot feet.

 

 --------

 Bob Turner

 RV-10 QB

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445282#445282

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Soundproofing

 	  kearney wrote: 	
		  Bob



What did you do for the back pax?



Cheers



Les



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jul 27, 2015, at 17:04, Bob Turner <bobturner> wrote:

 

 

 

 I'm with RV10Flyer; the best sound reduction/pound is from a good headset.

 Start there, then decide if you need more. (My personal answer was "no".)

 

 However, I did have to do something about the draft in the back; passengers in the back had cold heads and hot feet.

 

 --------

 Bob Turner

 RV-10 QB

 

 

 



	
	




Well, mostly I turned the pilot's intercom volume down so I don't have to hear the complaints!! ha ha. Seriously, I stuffed some insulation into all the corregations in the aft baggage bulkhead. That helped some. As a test, I have taped some cardboard in front of the rear heat outlets, taped on 3 sides but canted at 45 degrees up, to encourage the heat to go up instead of out to their feet. That helped some. So do wool hats. Since the side walls and baggage bulkhead are not insulated, they are going to be cold when in flight, if it's cold outside. I suspect that a small amount of stick-on insulation, on those side walls and baggage bulkhead, would fix the problem more permanently, but I haven't been motivated enough yet to try it. Oddly the front seat occupants don't seem to have the same complaint of hot feet, cold head.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

rv10flyer(at)live.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:19 pm Post subject: Soundproofing

If you mean headsets? same for back Pax

if you mean hot feet and cold heads?, the answer lies on the vent doors on 

the firewall- 

http://www.planeinnovations.com/product/heater-bypass-valves-hbv-03/

I was blessed to be given the chance to help design them. They have tabs 

that totally block any heat from entering and are stainless/stiff so doors 

don’t warp when opening and closing. result-no hot tunnel and two young 

daughters (one very temperature sensitive) that have been quite happy with 

no hot feet (during summer) and warm in winter- I used a PVC 45 degree pipe 

on the back holes to force the heat up versus right to feet.

Pascal



--

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:57 pm Post subject: Soundproofing

Back passengers get cold if the doors aren't well sealed. The air in the cabin is sucked out around the door hinges and is replaced from tailcone air through the corregations in the rear baggage wall. If you have this problem, try sealing around the hinges better. 

Regarding noise, door seals hugely reduce the noise level in the cabin. A plane I worked on with inflatable door seals went from the loudest -10 to probably the quietest -10 I have flown when the door seals were finished and inflated. 

Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

352-427-0285

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

Sent from my iPad

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jul 27, 2015, at 7:43 PM, Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca> wrote:

 Bob

 What did you do for the back pax?

 Cheers

 Les

 Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 27, 2015, at 17:04, Bob Turner <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> I'm with RV10Flyer; the best sound reduction/pound is from a good headset.

> Start there, then decide if you need more. (My personal answer was "no".)

> 

> However, I did have to do something about the draft in the back; passengers in the back had cold heads and hot feet.

> 

> --------

> Bob Turner

> RV-10 QB

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Read this topic online here:

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445282#445282

gengrumpy

Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 131
Location: Tullahoma, TN

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:06 pm Post subject: Soundproofing

It also helps to seal and insulate the aft bulkhead in the baggage compartment.  As Jesse said, lots of air comes forward into the cabin from the tailcone.

grumpy

N184JM

do not archive

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jul 27, 2015, at 7:53 PM, Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> wrote:

 Back passengers get cold if the doors aren't well sealed. The air in the cabin is sucked out around the door hinges and is replaced from tailcone air through the corregations in the rear baggage wall. If you have this problem, try sealing around the hinges better. 

 Regarding noise, door seals hugely reduce the noise level in the cabin. A plane I worked on with inflatable door seals went from the loudest -10 to probably the quietest -10 I have flown when the door seals were finished and inflated. 

 Jesse Saint

 Saint Aviation, Inc.

 352-427-0285

 jesse(at)saintaviation.com

 Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 27, 2015, at 7:43 PM, Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> Bob

> 

> What did you do for the back pax?

> 

> Cheers

> 

> Les

> 

> Sent from my iPhone

> 

>> On Jul 27, 2015, at 17:04, Bob Turner <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> wrote:

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> I'm with RV10Flyer; the best sound reduction/pound is from a good headset.

>> Start there, then decide if you need more. (My personal answer was "no".)

>> 

>> However, I did have to do something about the draft in the back; passengers in the back had cold heads and hot feet.

>> 

>> --------

>> Bob Turner

>> RV-10 QB

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Read this topic online here:

>> 

>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445282#445282

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

Greg McFarlane

Joined: 12 Apr 2012
Posts: 57
Location: Albany Western Australia

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:53 am Post subject: Re: Soundproofing

As Jesse has said, any air leakage around the door seals/hinges will encourage airflow from the baggage V holes into the cabin, however those V holes are actually for airflow OUT of the cabin. Not a good idea to block these holes up to keep rear passengers ears warm as a potential build up of any Carbon Monoxide will probably be the result. Cheers from Western Australia

johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:25 am Post subject: Re: Soundproofing

 	  kearney wrote: 	
		  Hi 



Since I posted this I started working through the VAF archives etc. I ended up researching Abesco FP200 foam that I read about on the VAF forums.



This would seem to be a good product to install under the floor pans as it is an expanding fire stop foam and does have some noise damping properties as well. The lightening holes would provide installation access. When cured it is a very light foam. 



Has anyone on the list used this?



As I understand it, one limitation is that it should not be used in places where temps normally exceed 150-200C on an ongoing basis. Does anyone have any idea as to what the skin temps are near the exhausts?



Lastly, here is an interesting demo of the differences between fire-blocks vs fire-stops. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djB4dmfHhQk



Cheers



Les 	




Les,

I used several cans of Abesco FP200, and love it. I put it under all the floors. The floors feel solid, are cool, and I assume there is sound reduction. The best part is that it's a positive fire barrier. It's a great product.



John

_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

EdKranz

Joined: 29 Dec 2010
Posts: 132
Location: Hastings, MN

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:34 am Post subject: Soundproofing

I used Abesco FP200 under both the front and rear floorboards as I riveted them in place.

It has quite a bit of force as it expands, and I'd recommend being careful to either spray the foam under the floorboards before you rivet them down, let it cure, trim the excess, and then install the floorboards, or if the floors are already down, make sure you don't overfill the voids.

A nice side effect is that the floorboards have a very nice solid feel with the foam in there.

On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 6:43 PM, Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:

[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)>

 Bob

 What did you do for the back pax?

 Cheers

 Les

 Sent from my iPhone

 > On Jul 27, 2015, at 17:04, Bob Turner <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)> wrote:

 >

 > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)>

 >

 > I'm with RV10Flyer; the best sound reduction/pound is from a good headset.

 > Start there, then decide if you need more. (My personal answer was "no".)

 >

 > However, I did have to do something about the draft in the back; passengers in the back had cold heads and hot feet.

 >

 > --------

 > Bob Turner

 > RV-10 QB

 >

 >

 >

 >

 > Read this topic online here:

 >

 > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445282#445282

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

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_________________
Ed Kranz
RV10
Finishing
www.edandcolleen.com

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