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Herbgh(at)nctc.com
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 Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:41 am Post subject: the problem with Poly brush....and the rest.... |
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Fellers
starting to spray poly brush and find that it creates a surface like
sand paper...I use 4 to 1 ratio...1 part 8500 reducer/retarder..but
still seems to be going on dry...picking brains...Herb
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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:34 am Post subject: the problem with Poly brush....and the rest.... |
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On 7/23/2015 7:41 AM, Herb wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)
Fellers
 starting to spray poly brush and find that it creates a surface like sand paper...I use 4 to 1 ratio...1 part 8500 reducer/retarder..but still seems to be going on dry...picking brains...Herb
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Never used it, but, from the Polyfiber website:
When I sprayed on the first coat it dried rough like sandpaper. What's wrong?
>Excessive heat or inadequate thinning is causing the Poly-Brush to dry before it reaches the surface. Add about 2 ounces of retarder BR8600 to each quart of reduced Poly-Brush.
http://www.polyfiber.com/techquestions/polybrush/#I thought we were supposed to brush on Poly-Brush. Now you are talking about spraying it on. What's the deal?
[quote][b]
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byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:38 am Post subject: the problem with Poly brush....and the rest.... |
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Herb,,, what air temperature are you spraying in? how far away from the
fabric are you holding the spray gun? are you using hvlp,,, or a higher
pressure gun? if the temperature is to high, if you are holding the gun
to far away from the fabric, if the temperature of the compressed air is too
high, you may be getting too much evaporation of the poly brush before it
hits the fabric...
when I sprayed my plane,,, I used a higher pressure gun... only because I
all ready had it... I noticed that after a while as the temperature of
the compressor and tank would warm,, I would start to get some condensation
moisture spraying on the surface. I probably should have added a dryer to
the line,,, but I did not have one,,, so I added a 40 gal water heater
between my compressor tank and the spray gun... that did several things,,,
it collected the condensation and also cooled the air going to the spray
gun. it decreased the start stop cycles on the compressor, and also gave a
smoother air flow... just for consistency sake,,, I was a plumber and I
had the water heater hanging around as well. my compressor was running at
65 psi and I would reduce that as the air went into the air hose. I cant
remember but I was probably 20 to 35 psi at the gun....
I suggest trying on some scraps and get it working before you get to your
plane. maybe you could adjust the volume of paint you are putting through
your gun... a higher volume and moving faster to prevent drips may give a
smoother finish,,, you could clean up the sand paper texture with MEK or
poly reducer.
boyd y
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Herbgh(at)nctc.com
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:42 am Post subject: the problem with Poly brush....and the rest.... |
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Boyd,Charlie
I bought two gals of the RR8500 from ACF. I am using a high
pressure gun...Taiwan knock off of one of the American guns. I did a
pretty good job some years ago...but now am in a pickle...
I will try another air compressor...to see if its larger tank will
keep the air cooler...and will reduce the air pressure at the gun...I
usually get my painting advice from a paint and body man...but Poly
fiber has him baffled..
I moved quite close to the fabric to get the results that I have
.but did not do much spraying so that I do not have too much to clean
up... Herb
On 07/23/2015 08:35 AM, b young wrote:
[quote]
Herb,,, what air temperature are you spraying in? how far away from
the fabric are you holding the spray gun? are you using hvlp,,, or
a higher pressure gun? if the temperature is to high, if you are
holding the gun to far away from the fabric, if the temperature of the
compressed air is too high, you may be getting too much evaporation
of the poly brush before it hits the fabric...
when I sprayed my plane,,, I used a higher pressure gun... only
because I all ready had it... I noticed that after a while as the
temperature of the compressor and tank would warm,, I would start to
get some condensation moisture spraying on the surface. I probably
should have added a dryer to the line,,, but I did not have one,,,
so I added a 40 gal water heater between my compressor tank and the
spray gun... that did several things,,, it collected the
condensation and also cooled the air going to the spray gun. it
decreased the start stop cycles on the compressor, and also gave a
smoother air flow... just for consistency sake,,, I was a plumber
and I had the water heater hanging around as well. my compressor
was running at 65 psi and I would reduce that as the air went into the
air hose. I cant remember but I was probably 20 to 35 psi at the
gun....
I suggest trying on some scraps and get it working before you get to
your plane. maybe you could adjust the volume of paint you are putting
through your gun... a higher volume and moving faster to prevent
drips may give a smoother finish,,, you could clean up the sand
paper texture with MEK or poly reducer.
boyd y
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 12:57 pm Post subject: the problem with Poly brush....and the rest.... |
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Too much air and not enough fluid.
More reducer and retarder.
Don't be cheap. Shoot some Polybrush on the fabric.
john h
Eielson AFB, Alaska
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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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Herbgh(at)nctc.com
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DAquaNut(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 1:30 pm Post subject: the problem with Poly brush....and the rest.... |
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Herb, Spray early in the morning when it is cooler. also chill the reduced mixture in the fridge. that is what i had to do when shooting poly tone. I also made a spray booth with an air conditioner to cool it! I think after more coats of poly spray and poly tone, it will flow out. The retarder will help along with morning spraying with chilled product !
Ed in Houston { Fire Fly 62}
In a message dated 7/23/2015 7:41:57 A.M. Central Daylight Time, Herbgh(at)nctc.com writes:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Fellers
starting to spray poly brush and find that it creates a surface like
sand paper..I use 4 to 1 ratio...1 part 8500 reducer/retarder..but
still seems to be going on dry...picking ========================; the ties Day ================================================ - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ================================================ - List Contribution Web Site sp; ===================================================
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[quote][b]
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Herbgh(at)nctc.com
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:30 pm Post subject: the problem with Poly brush....and the rest.... |
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Yep...what you say is correct...
I hooked up an airconditioner....and turned the air pressure down...that was the main problem...spraying at 28 lbs currently...4 to 1 reducer... Going on pretty good...but will only look good beyond 4 feet or so... There are some things that I do that I simply call "Herb Ups"!!! We all want pretty,,,but I catch as many fish out of an ugly 300 dollar boat.. That is my weak defence!!!
The paint job will cost me a thousand bucks on the resale late this fall....but , gosh, whatever I get will be mostly profit... Herb
On 07/26/2015 04:29 PM, DAquaNut(at)aol.com (DAquaNut(at)aol.com) wrote:
[quote] Herb, Spray early in the morning when it is cooler. also chill the reduced mixture in the fridge. that is what i had to do when shooting poly tone. I also made a spray booth with an air conditioner to cool it! I think after more coats of poly spray and poly tone, it will flow out. The retarder will help along with morning spraying with chilled product !
Ed in Houston { Fire Fly 62}
In a message dated 7/23/2015 7:41:57 A.M. Central Daylight Time, Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com) writes:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)
Fellers
starting to spray poly brush and find that it creates a surface like
sand paper...I use 4 to 1 ratio...1 part 8500 reducer/retarder..but
still seems to be going on dry...picking ========================; the ties Day ================================================ - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ================================================ - List Contribution Web Site sp; ===================================================
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[b]
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Jesse4
Joined: 04 Aug 2015
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:32 pm Post subject: Re: the problem with Poly brush....and the rest.... |
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My 2 cents. I've got a lot of experience over past year with poly system. Go to harbor freight get 20$ hvlp paint gun. Air supply should be 40#. you will have to adjust spay pattern nozzle and volum till u get a smooth slick even coat. Once that is set hold your tip no more than 12 inches away and rib to rib sweeping motion don't contiously hold down trigger. Each stroke gets seperate trigger pull. 1st cross coat should be brushed. Then next 2 cross coats spray it. Follow mixing instructions and spray in the cool of the morning. If you have any more questions feel free to email me. I hope to have video uploaded to you tube within next month. I do have a channel that just shows me playing with the Kolb Twinstar I have rebuilt in entirety twice. Just look up jesse waller Kolb twinstar. Good luck and be generous with the polybrush. It is the foundation in which you put everything else on.
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Jesse4
Joined: 04 Aug 2015
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: the problem with Poly brush....and the rest.... |
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Oh and definitely put at the very least a filter and preferably a dryer in line or other wise you will have fish eyes popping up. Which looks ugly and requires mek with very touchy rag to smooth. Then re spray. Don't forget when your brushing on 1st coat brush small area then come back smooth bubbles out with brush then let alone.
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Herbgh(at)nctc.com
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| Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:50 pm Post subject: the problem with Poly brush....and the rest.... |
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I found that I could get a fair coverage with 27 lbs on the regular
paint gun...That was my early problem... too much air..several folks
caught that error right away...
I have a dryer on my air supply...
by the way...anyone know of a non messy to apply the 3m , black
weather stripping into the channel on the rubber windscreen trim? Last
time, I just did the best to separate the gap in the trim...a bit too
messy....Herb
On 08/09/2015 03:37 PM, Jesse4 wrote:
| Quote: |
Oh and definitely put at the very least a filter and preferably a dryer in line or other wise you will have fish eyes popping up. Which looks ugly and requires mek with very touchy rag to smooth. Then re spray. Don't forget when your brushing on 1st coat brush small area then come back smooth bubbles out with brush then let alone.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445735#445735
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byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
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| Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:32 pm Post subject: the problem with Poly brush....and the rest.... |
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I never used any black.. But these ideas may help,   where the wind screen joins the nose cone,  I got it to fit correctly,  then put tape on both. Disassembled put in some clear silicone, used a wet finger and wiped off the excess.  When the silicone dried, I removed the tape.  It made a tight fitting air and water tight joint.
Boyd Young On Aug 9, 2015 2:52 PM, "Herb" <Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)> wrote:[quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)>
I found that I could get a fair coverage with 27 lbs on the regular paint gun...That was my early problem... too much air..several folks caught that error right away...
 I have a dryer on my air supply...
  by the way...anyone know of a non messy to apply the 3m , black weather stripping into the channel on the rubber windscreen trim? Last time, I just did the best to separate the gap in the trim...a bit too messy...Herb
On 08/09/2015 03:37 PM, Jesse4 wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jesse4" <Jkwiv99(at)yahoo.com (Jkwiv99(at)yahoo.com)>
Oh and definitely put at the very least a filter and preferably a dryer in line or other wise you will have fish eyes popping up. Which looks ugly and requires mek with very touchy rag to smooth. Then re spray. Don't forget when your brushing on 1st coat brush small area then come back smooth bubbles out with brush then let alone.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445735#445735
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Herbgh(at)nctc.com
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| Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:50 pm Post subject: the problem with Poly brush....and the rest.... |
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I used the black , over 12 bucks a tube ...because that was recommended many years ago... anyhow...it is on there...drying... and the tape should peel with a bit of help ...Herb
On 08/09/2015 05:32 PM, B Young wrote:
[quote]
I never used any black.. But these ideas may help,   where the wind screen joins the nose cone,  I got it to fit correctly,  then put tape on both. Disassembled put in some clear silicone, used a wet finger and wiped off the excess.  When the silicone dried, I removed the tape.  It made a tight fitting air and water tight joint.
Boyd Young On Aug 9, 2015 2:52 PM, "Herb" <Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)> wrote: | Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)>
I found that I could get a fair coverage with 27 lbs on the regular paint gun...That was my early problem... too much air..several folks caught that error right away...
 I have a dryer on my air supply...
  by the way...anyone know of a non messy to apply the 3m , black weather stripping into the channel on the rubber windscreen trim? Last time, I just did the best to separate the gap in the trim...a bit too messy....Herb
On 08/09/2015 03:37 PM, Jesse4 wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jesse4" <Jkwiv99(at)yahoo.com (Jkwiv99(at)yahoo.com)>
Oh and definitely put at the very least a filter and preferably a dryer in line or other wise you will have fish eyes popping up. Which looks ugly and requires mek with very touchy rag to smooth. Then re spray. Don't forget when your brushing on 1st coat brush small area then come back smooth bubbles out with brush then let alone.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445735#445735
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stuart(at)harnerfarm.net
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:19 am Post subject: the problem with Poly brush....and the rest.... |
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I used some clear vinyl glue that worked fairly well, just put a little in
the bottom of the groove, then put on the windscreen and let dry.
Bryan showed me his method at OSH. Put the weather strip on dry. Then peel
back the top and put a drop of Super glue in about every 3 or 4 inches. It
spreads out nicely when you release the weather strip, then dries quickly.
Bryan showed on the company Firestar where it was still stuck after several
years with no visible mess.
Wish I had thought of that!
Stuart
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Herbgh(at)nctc.com
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:03 am Post subject: the problem with Poly brush....and the rest.... |
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Mee Too.!! Durn!! I used the black goo and it is a bit messy...but it
is on and cured.
When I talk about nearly finished...I always forget the time it takes
for paint to dry....Gotta paint the nose cone one more time...before
mounting the wind screen...
Stuart...if you have time...measure the length of the lift strut
tubes...mine are 54 inches...and I think standard is around 53? Gives me
a bit of dihedral...which is likely ok...Herb
On 08/10/2015 11:19 AM, Stuart Harner wrote:
[quote]
I used some clear vinyl glue that worked fairly well, just put a little in
the bottom of the groove, then put on the windscreen and let dry.
Bryan showed me his method at OSH. Put the weather strip on dry. Then peel
back the top and put a drop of Super glue in about every 3 or 4 inches. It
spreads out nicely when you release the weather strip, then dries quickly.
Bryan showed on the company Firestar where it was still stuck after several
years with no visible mess.
Wish I had thought of that!
Stuart
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