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dennis.glaeser(at)gm.com
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 Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:22 am Post subject: Bouncing ammeter question |
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Bob, et.al.,
One of my students bought an AA-1 Yankee which has an ‘interesting’ issue.
The ammeter needle bounces constantly – has done so since he bought it.
Yesterday when flying I noticed that the backlighting on the LCD radio display, and the instrument post lights flicker in time with the bouncing needle (had to look close to see the flicker in the post lights). No other symptoms that I have noticed.
I figured it was a VR issue. He recently had a new VR installed, due to a battery charging issue, and the bouncing is still there. The A&P did voltage testing (don’t know exactly what) and reported everything works as expected (except for the bouncing needle).
So my questions are:
What can cause that?
What can we look at for further diagnosis?
Thanks,
Dennis Glaeser
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ARGOLDMAN(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:12 am Post subject: Bouncing ammeter question |
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Just guessing, however
I seem to remember my Yankee years ago (AA-1 clipper) had an incandescent pulsating beacon on the tip of the rudder. Could it be that this is creating a pulsating drain which you are seeing as a periodic fluctuation in bus voltage? Electrically, the aircraft is quite basic. Originally it was supplied with a Narco MK 12 with the tube/power supply unit located in, if I remember correctly, way aft in the tail cone. The clipper had a gyro instrument panel. I actually got my instrument rating in it in 1969.
check the draw of the beacon.
Rich
In a message dated 10/19/2015 1:23:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time, dennis.glaeser(at)gm.com writes:
| Quote: |
Bob, et.al.,
One of my students bought an AA-1 Yankee which has an ‘interesting’ issue.
The ammeter needle bounces constantly – has done so since he bought it.
Yesterday when flying I noticed that the backlighting on the LCD radio display, and the instrument post lights flicker in time with the bouncing needle (had to look close to see the flicker in the post lights). No other symptoms that I have noticed.
I figured it was a VR issue. He recently had a new VR installed, due to a battery charging issue, and the bouncing is still there. The A&P did voltage testing (don’t know exactly what) and reported everything works as expected (except for the bouncing needle).
So my questions are:
What can cause that?
What can we look at for further diagnosis?
Thanks,
Dennis Glaeser
Nothing in this message is intended to constitute an electronic signature unless a specific statement to the contrary is included in this message.
Confidentiality Note: This message is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. It may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, transmission, dissemination or other use, or taking of any action in reliance upon this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you received this message in error, please contact the sender and delete it from your computer. | Quote: |
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[quote][b]
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ARGOLDMAN(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:12 am Post subject: Bouncing ammeter question |
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Just guessing, however
I seem to remember my Yankee years ago (AA-1 clipper) had an incandescent pulsating beacon on the tip of the rudder. Could it be that this is creating a pulsating drain which you are seeing as a periodic fluctuation in bus voltage? Electrically, the aircraft is quite basic. Originally it was supplied with a Narco MK 12 with the tube/power supply unit located in, if I remember correctly, way aft in the tail cone. The clipper had a gyro instrument panel. I actually got my instrument rating in it in 1969.
check the draw of the beacon.
Rich
In a message dated 10/19/2015 1:23:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time, dennis.glaeser(at)gm.com writes:
| Quote: |
Bob, et.al.,
One of my students bought an AA-1 Yankee which has an ‘interesting’ issue.
The ammeter needle bounces constantly – has done so since he bought it.
Yesterday when flying I noticed that the backlighting on the LCD radio display, and the instrument post lights flicker in time with the bouncing needle (had to look close to see the flicker in the post lights). No other symptoms that I have noticed.
I figured it was a VR issue. He recently had a new VR installed, due to a battery charging issue, and the bouncing is still there. The A&P did voltage testing (don’t know exactly what) and reported everything works as expected (except for the bouncing needle).
So my questions are:
What can cause that?
What can we look at for further diagnosis?
Thanks,
Dennis Glaeser
Nothing in this message is intended to constitute an electronic signature unless a specific statement to the contrary is included in this message.
Confidentiality Note: This message is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. It may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, transmission, dissemination or other use, or taking of any action in reliance upon this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you received this message in error, please contact the sender and delete it from your computer. | Quote: |
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List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
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ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
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tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================
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[quote][b]
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user9253
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1921
Location: Riley TWP Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: Bouncing ammeter question |
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There could be an intermittent bad connection in the alternator field circuit. The alternator field switch is a common problem as is the alternator connector.
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Jim Baker
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 181
Location: Sayre, PA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:16 pm Post subject: Bouncing ammeter question |
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Go to the Zeftronics site ( alternator controller ). The problem is probably high resistance in the field circuit. They have a whole article on the wig-wag issue. Jim Baker [url=tel:4054265377]405 426 5377[/url]--
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dsleepy47
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 41
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:22 pm Post subject: Bouncing ammeter question |
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Is it a 1969 AA-1 Yankee or is it 1A, 1B or 1C? The wiring diagrams are slightly different depending on the year.
Does the needle behavior change when the beacon is turned on or off? The power supply is actually for a top and bottom beacon. It normally has a resistor on the unused side.
Deems Herring owner AA-1B N1491R
From: dennis.glaeser(at)gm.com
To: AeroElectric-List(at)matronics.com
Subject: Bouncing ammeter question
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 18:20:27 +0000
Bob, et.al.,
One of my students bought an AA-1 Yankee which has an ‘interesting’ issue.
The ammeter needle bounces constantly – has done so since he bought it.
Yesterday when flying I noticed that the backlighting on the LCD radio display, and the instrument post lights flicker in time with the bouncing needle (had to look close to see the flicker in the post lights). No other symptoms that I have noticed.
I figured it was a VR issue. He recently had a new VR installed, due to a battery charging issue, and the bouncing is still there. The A&P did voltage testing (don’t know exactly what) and reported everything works as expected (except for the bouncing needle).
So my questions are:
What can cause that?
What can we look at for further diagnosis?
[quote][b]
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dsleepy47
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argoldman(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:05 pm Post subject: Bouncing ammeter question |
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69 should be the straight AA1. That was the year that I had also. Unless the N number was changed you can tell the sequence in which it was made. They started with "56" and then the sequence number. Followed by a letter mine was "L" and was the 48 th one made. They went to the "a etched designation with a change in the wing to make it tamer. It was great just the way it was imnsho
Rich
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 19, 2015, at 6:21 PM, Deems Herring <dsleepy47(at)hotmail.com (dsleepy47(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
[quote] Is it a 1969 AA-1 Yankee or is it 1A, 1B or 1C? The wiring diagrams are slightly different depending on the year.
Does the needle behavior change when the beacon is turned on or off? The power supply is actually for a top and bottom beacon. It normally has a resistor on the unused side.
Deems Herring owner AA-1B N1491R
From: dennis.glaeser(at)gm.com (dennis.glaeser(at)gm.com)
To: AeroElectric-List(at)matronics.com (AeroElectric-List(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Bouncing ammeter question
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 18:20:27 +0000
Bob, et.al.,
One of my students bought an AA-1 Yankee which has an ‘interesting’ issue.
The ammeter needle bounces constantly – has done so since he bought it.
Yesterday when flying I noticed that the backlighting on the LCD radio display, and the instrument post lights flicker in time with the bouncing needle (had to look close to see the flicker in the post lights). No other symptoms that I have noticed.
I figured it was a VR issue. He recently had a new VR installed, due to a battery charging issue, and the bouncing is still there. The A&P did voltage testing (don’t know exactly what) and reported everything works as expected (except for the bouncing needle).
So my questions are:
What can cause that?
What can we look at for further diagnosis?
| Quote: |
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
lectric-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
//forums.matronics.com
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 1:15 am Post subject: Bouncing ammeter question |
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I don't recall the details, but there's something about old Cessnas and
bouncing meters that Bob has written about on this list. Something
about cumulative resistance from all the junctions in the circuits, if I
recall correctly. I'm sure Bob will comment soon.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty,
understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system.
And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness,
egotism and self-interest are the traits of success. And while men
admire the quality of the first they love the produce of the second.
-John Steinbeck, novelist, Nobel laureate (1902-1968)
On 10/19/2015 01:20 PM, Dennis A Glaeser wrote:
| Quote: | Bob, et.al.,
One of my students bought an AA-1 Yankee which has an ‘interesting’ issue.
The ammeter needle bounces constantly – has done so since he bought it.
Yesterday when flying I noticed that the backlighting on the LCD radio
display, and the instrument post lights flicker in time with the
bouncing needle (had to look close to see the flicker in the post
lights). No other symptoms that I have noticed.
I figured it was a VR issue. He recently had a new VR installed, due to
a battery charging issue, and the bouncing is still there. The A&P did
voltage testing (don’t know exactly what) and reported everything works
as expected (except for the bouncing needle).
So my questions are:
What can cause that?
What can we look at for further diagnosis?
Thanks,
Dennis Glaeser
Nothing in this message is intended to constitute an electronic
signature unless a specific statement to the contrary is included in
this message.
Confidentiality Note: This message is intended only for the person or
entity to which it is addressed. It may contain confidential and/or
privileged material. Any review, transmission, dissemination or other
use, or taking of any action in reliance upon this message by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may be
unlawful. If you received this message in error, please contact the
sender and delete it from your computer.
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:51 am Post subject: Bouncing ammeter question |
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At 04:13 AM 10/20/2015, you wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rayj <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net>
I don't recall the details, but there's something about old Cessnas and bouncing meters that Bob has written about on this list. Something about cumulative resistance from all the junctions in the circuits, if I recall correctly. I'm sure Bob will comment soon.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN |
Your system architecture and symptoms are typical of
literally millions of examples of similar problems
throughout the spectrum of vehicular DC power systems
of which airplanes are a small portion. A COMMON THREAD
that runs through these systems occurs when
the regulator voltage sense line shares
a path with alternator field current. This is
typical of ALL three-wire regulators of which the
'ford' legacy devices are but one example.
This condition is well known in architectures
of this type and is often called the 'galloping
ammeter'. In the older Cessnas, I recommend refurbishing
everything from the bus bar to the regulator which would
include breaker, alternator switch and wires.
Doing any ONE thing might 'cure' the problem but
it's the sum-total of environmentally driven resistance
creep that finally stacks up to cause the instability.
You may cure it with one replacement but only by
replacing ALL will you get back to as-new condition.
See http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Alternators/Know_Your_Charging_System.pdf
Bob . . . [quote][b]
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