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jamesbancroft(at)btintern
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 Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:02 am Post subject: Breaking Action! |
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Good morning all
As a new Yak-52 chap, I'd very much appreciate some advice. When landing on grass, what's the best breaking technique to achieve the shortest landing distance......a constant squeeze, on and off application, something else? Also appreciate how you adjust you technique for wet grass.
I'm thinking short grass runways in Enlandshire 
Cheers
James.
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plus2s
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 65
Location: NEW ZEALAND
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 2:15 am Post subject: Breaking Action! |
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Start with a low tail landing for best aerodynamic breaking and then on and off squeezes on the brakes.
A constant hold on the brakes can cause the wheels to lock up. (Just my thoughts)
On Saturday, 24 October 2015 9:10 PM, James Bancroft <jamesbancroft(at)btinternet.com> wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: James Bancroft <jamesbancroft(at)btinternet.com (jamesbancroft(at)btinternet.com)>
Good morning all
As a new Yak-52 chap, I'd very much appreciate some advice. When landing on grass, what's the best breaking technique to achieve the shortest landing distance......a constant squeeze, on and off application, something else? Also appreciate how you adjust you technique for wet grass.
I'm thinking short gr//www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronsp; -->
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jay-dub
Joined: 31 May 2014
Posts: 99
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:19 am Post subject: Re: Breaking Action! |
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They let anyone onto this site these days!
If you really need to get it stopped, one big application will pull you up in a very short distance, although as with any other aircraft be cautious about locking a wheel. You'll have nothing left afterwards to taxi with though until they've cooled so plan to use the minimum you can. On grass, it slows down reasonably well of its own accord.
I wouldn't fancy getting in anywhere less than 500m though unless there's a decent headwind. At least you'd get out again (unlike the Chang).
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cjpilot710(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 8:38 am Post subject: Breaking Action! |
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James, (good name BTW)
With all aircraft stopping distance is very depend of initial energy at touch down. So the slower you are the shorter the distance. If you are stable, with no wind OR turbulence, a power on approach 10 kts above normal stall, will get you into 1,500' field over a 50' obstacle. Aim for a spot as close to the approach end of the runway as you can. After landing immediately close the throttle to idle and apply brake pressure until you feel the airplane decelerating then judge how much braking you'll need with what left in the landing distance. Keep the nose high after touch down until you run out of elevator control. One of my neighbor lands his SA16 Grumman Albatross on our 3200' grass strip and never uses more than 1,500' of it. Of course his approach speed is even higher.
With airlines we use to apply a "wind component" to the published threshold speed for our weight. We would take 1/2 of the steady wind speed and add it to the threshold speed. Say the steady wind was 15kts, - we would add 7kts to our approach speed. If we had a gusty wind condition, say something 15kts gusts to 20kts, we would add the FULL gust component on top on the steady wind component. thus our finial approach speed would be X=Vth+7+5. I use this for my CJ still.
Grass runways are forgiving and the same time traitorous. You can away with some side loads on touch down that you never would on a runway, particularly if its wet. At the same time, you could have the brakes locked and you might as well be on ice. Turning at a high taxi speeds on wet grass is asking for a real surprise when you try to turn that sucker with differential brakes. One the tires slide, and two the nose wheel will just slide across the grass. So departing a grass runway you want to keep your speed down and not be in a hurry.
Grass is easy on tires. If you operate off grass strip as normal course, you'll find your tires will last though a lot more landings and takeoffs. Hard runways of course take off little bit of rubber all time even taxing. If you lock up the brakes on a hard runway you WILL have flat spot on your tires right than and there. A CJ pilot friend blew a tire by landing to fast on an unfamiliar hard surface runway that was over 3,000 feet long. On a grass strip, you'll get away with it. ASMOF you may end up damaging the grass strip. The length of the grass will make a HUGE difference in your landing and take off performance. Long grass will help you stop much sooner. You can guess what it will do to take off performance, which to me is the most dangerous scenario.
Be comfortable and aware of your airplane at slow speeds. That means some practice a lot of 'slow flight' regimens with gear and flaps down. Most pilot get Yaks for the acro - all high speed and yanking and banking. Yet each flight need to land at a slow speed. No?
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 10/24/2015 9:23:05 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, flyjnw(at)gmail.com writes:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "jay-dub" <flyjnw(at)gmail.com>
They let anyone onto this site these days! [Wink]
If you really need to get it stopped, one big application will pull you up in a very short distance, although as with any other aircraft be cautious about locking a wheel. You'll have nothing left afterwards to taxi with though until they've cooled so plan to use the minimum you can. On grass, it slows down reasonably well of its own accord.
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CJ and Yak-52 owner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448240#448240===============================================
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rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 10:10 am Post subject: Breaking Action! |
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It was a cold, windy WI day 2 weeks ago...with several Red Stars already recovered, about-faced and idling - watching my approach, and one very capable check pilot in my back seat, I did my 1st grass landing in a Yak. The unfamiliarity of the strip and nasty crosswind caused beads of sweat and a pucker factor that was almost unbearable, and yet - it turned out to be a non-issue! On pavement, I will typically burn 2500' or so on rollout. So my concern over 2000' feet of grass was justified. But I actually had to add power to continue my rollout to get to the end and make room for the last guy landing. I'm now excitedly anticipating my next grass landing. Very smooth feel as the Yak 52 truly felt like it was in its element...
Best of luck and remember to "wiggle your toes" as John Casper would say! 
________________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of jay-dub <flyjnw(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 8:19 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Breaking Action!
They let anyone onto this site these days! [Wink]
If you really need to get it stopped, one big application will pull you up in a very short distance, although as with any other aircraft be cautious about locking a wheel. You'll have nothing left afterwards to taxi with though until they've cooled so plan to use the minimum you can. On grass, it slows down reasonably well of its own accord.
--------
CJ and Yak-52 owner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448240#448240
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jblake207(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 1:52 pm Post subject: Breaking Action! |
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Best braking procedure on grass in any airplane is pumping her gently until she stops...
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
James Bancroft <jamesbancroft(at)btinternet.com> wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: James Bancroft <jamesbancroft(at)btinternet.com>
Good morning all
As a new Yak-52 chap, I'd very much appreciate some advice. When landing on grass, what's the best breaking technique to achieve the shortest landing distance......a constant squeeze, on and off application, something else? Also appreciate how you adjust you technique for wet grass.
I'm thinking short grass runways in Enlandshire
Cheers
James.
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Vic
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 115
Location: Southern Bavaria
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: Breaking Action! |
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My advice would be NOT to brake right after touch down but let first drop the speed to below 80 kph . This way you can use wind and roll resistance for deceleration when it is most effective. Only then use the brakes for stopping, otherwise you may end up with no brakes for steering on shorter strips after you have heated them up by braking too early. Remember drum brakes , no discs !
Vic
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Viperdoc
Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 4:16 pm Post subject: Breaking Action! |
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Hold the nose off after touchdown to aero brake. Stay off the brakes until you are ready to turn off the runway. RU drum brakes notoriously overheat leaving you with brake fad if you heat them up with frequent braking for roll out. You will find yourself doing the emergency procedure for no brakes. Mags off and you are along for the ride. I hate form taxi where lead feels they need to look good for the crowd by doing a slow taxi. Heats my brakes up every time.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Oct 24, 2015, at 4:48 PM, Jon Blake <jblake207(at)comcast.net (jblake207(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
[quote]Best braking procedure on grass in any airplane is pumping her gently until she stops...
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
James Bancroft <jamesbancroft(at)btinternet.com (jamesbancroft(at)btinternet.com)> wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: James Bancroft <jamesbancroft(at)btinternet.com (jamesbancroft(at)btinternet.com)>
Good morning all
As a new Yak-52 chap, I'd very much appreciate some advice. When landing on grass, what's the best breaking technique to achieve the shortest landing distance......a constant squeeze, on and off application, something else? Also appreciate how you adjust you technique for wet grass.
I'm thinking short grass runways in Enlandshire
==========================nbsp; - The Yak-List Email Forum -==========================nbsp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
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[b]
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Viperdoc
Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 4:16 pm Post subject: Breaking Action! |
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Long down hill taxi's will do it too.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Oct 24, 2015, at 4:48 PM, Jon Blake <jblake207(at)comcast.net (jblake207(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
[quote]Best braking procedure on grass in any airplane is pumping her gently until she stops...
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
James Bancroft <jamesbancroft(at)btinternet.com (jamesbancroft(at)btinternet.com)> wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: James Bancroft <jamesbancroft(at)btinternet.com (jamesbancroft(at)btinternet.com)>
Good morning all
As a new Yak-52 chap, I'd very much appreciate some advice. When landing on grass, what's the best breaking technique to achieve the shortest landing distance......a constant squeeze, on and off application, something else? Also appreciate how you adjust you technique for wet grass.
I'm thinking short grass r====================================================http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Naviga==========================p; -====================================================nbsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.<===================================================
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[b]
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JL2A
Joined: 07 Apr 2015
Posts: 113
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: Breaking Action! |
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| Quote: | | I wouldn't fancy getting in anywhere less than 500m though unless there's a decent headwind. At least you'd get out again (unlike the Chang). |
Not sure if that is valid. Regularly use a 450m grass strip, never used more than half to take off (Chang) and haven't spooked myself landing on it either. Used in everything from light tailwind (but slightly uphill) to 25 kt crosswind etc etc the CJ seems to do it pretty easy.
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jay-dub
Joined: 31 May 2014
Posts: 99
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:01 am Post subject: Re: Breaking Action! |
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It depends what you're trying to climb over afterwards, although the ground roll is pretty short. A warm day in summer over here, full fuel and two gorillas gives 285hp quite a lot to do. 360hp or more makes a big difference.
I've had the Yak in and out of Brimpton (local farm strip of 520m) with plenty of room to spare (this gorilla plus gorilla senior) but the Nanchang is a bit less comfortable.
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