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Cyl. Head Temperature Delta

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samira.h(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:34 am Post subject: Cyl. Head Temperature Delta

Does anybody know the cylinder head

temperature delta on YAK/Nanchang

engines between jug #1 and #4?



I always was under the impression

cylinder #4 runs the coolest due the

master rod but my gauges indicate

otherwise.



Thank you in advance.



cheers



Elmar

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:53 am Post subject: Cyl. Head Temperature Delta

Elmar,

I'm curious why you thought the cylinder with the master rod would run 

cooler?



On the Yak 52's M14, my experience has been the upper cylinders, 

typically 9, 1, 2 run a bit hotter than the other cylinders.  I don't 

remember the exact delta, but I do remember they always were hotter.  

The readings were taken with a laser temperature probe. This may be due 

to the fact that these cylinder are tucked behind the shroud on the top 

of the cooling louver ring.



Now folks like Terry Slawinski that have the JPI 9 cylinder engine 

analyzer would probably have much more accurate information since it 

reads both CHT and EGT on all 9 cylinders.



Dennis



A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1



On 6/21/2012 6:31 AM, Elmar & Manuela Hegenauer wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <samira.h(at)shaw.ca>



 Does anybody know the cylinder head

 temperature delta on YAK/Nanchang

 engines between jug #1 and #4?



 I always was under the impression

 cylinder #4 runs the coolest due the

 master rod but my gauges indicate

 otherwise.



 Thank you in advance.



 cheers



 Elmar

Dale

Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 178

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:43 am Post subject: Re: Cyl. Head Temperature Delta

5 and 6 run the coolest followed by 4 and 7 then 3 and 8 then 9 , 1,2.

I think it's because the air can leave easily in the yak at least around the exhaust pipe exist and the air going around the oil sump has a easy path out the bottom.  also the fuel gets pumped into the bottom of the engine and the first cyls to get a bite are the bottom ones. My JPI shows it like a bell curve .  9 and 1 are always the hottest 5 and 6 always the coolest.  I have fuel injection so my numbers will not be something you could use only as a reference. and my plane does not have a cooling shroud.

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:02 am Post subject: Cyl. Head Temperature Delta

Based on a conversation I had this morning with Barrett Precision 

Engines on this subject, the primary reason the lower cylinders run 

cooler is because the fuel is vaporized better in the lower cylinders 

than the upper cylinders.  They have proven this in the test chamber 

with their "mule" engine with the engine fully instrumented and running 

both their fuel injection system AND with the standard carburetor.



Dennis

A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1



On 6/21/2012 8:43 AM, Dale wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 5 and 6 run the coolest followed by 4 and 7 then 3 and 8 then 9 and 1.

 I think it's because the air can leave easily in the yak at least around the exhaust pipe exist and the air going around the oil sump has a easy path out the bottom.  also the fuel gets pumped into the bottom of the engine and the first cyls to get a bite are the bottom ones. My JPI shows it like a bell curve .  9 and 1 are always the hottest 5 and 6 always the coolest.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376205#376205

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:25 am Post subject: Cyl. Head Temperature Delta

I've Aerospace Logic CHT probes on the front plugs of my M14R.



First thing: the temperatures that I measure on the front plug nr 4 are 35

degrees colder than the number 4 plug on the rear (CHT indicator of the

plane which I assume is correct).



Then indeed, cyl 6 is the coldest on my engine, closely followed by the nr

5. 



But nr 3 is the hottest, immediately followed by nr 4. And the difference

between 6 and 3 goes up to 40, 45 degrees Celsius. On my engine, different

regimes, the number 3 always ends up being the hottest.



I don't have any precise data yet (figuring out a way how to copy them

while flying, but there's a serial data line on the instrument).

Jan



On 21/06/12 16:58, "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>

wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

<dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>



Based on a conversation I had this morning with Barrett Precision

Engines on this subject, the primary reason the lower cylinders run

cooler is because the fuel is vaporized better in the lower cylinders

than the upper cylinders.  They have proven this in the test chamber

with their "mule" engine with the engine fully instrumented and running

both their fuel injection system AND with the standard carburetor.



Dennis

A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1



On 6/21/2012 8:43 AM, Dale wrote:

> 

>

> 5 and 6 run the coolest followed by 4 and 7 then 3 and 8 then 9 and 1.

> I think it's because the air can leave easily in the yak at least

>around the exhaust pipe exist and the air going around the oil sump has

>a easy path out the bottom.  also the fuel gets pumped into the bottom

>of the engine and the first cyls to get a bite are the bottom ones. My

>JPI shows it like a bell curve .  9 and 1 are always the hottest 5 and 6

>always the coolest.

>

>

> Read this topic online here:

>

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376205#376205

>

Dale

Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 178

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:33 am Post subject: Re: Cyl. Head Temperature Delta

During my loooong dealings with this matter I also learned that apparently the intake pipes in relation to the fuel delivery from the carb has a direct effect on the M-14 .  Some US radial engine makers offset the intakes in relation to the initial fuel air delivery to so-call bypass some of the cylinders to even out the spread of fuel in a attempt to minimize this issue.

samira.h(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:25 am Post subject: Cyl. Head Temperature Delta

Hi again,



thank you very much for your input

and thoughts on this matter, much

appreciated.



Years ago someone on the list stated

that cylinder No. 4 runs the coolest

due the greater mass of the master rod,

hence better heat dissipation.



My extension leads were decayed to a

degree where replacement was absolutely

necessary.



I couldn't find any original leads (russian

GOST standard) so I had to buy US CHT

gauges including extensions and thermocouples.



These have been installed according to

the maintenance book - front cockpit

gauges connected to cyl. #4 and rear

cockpit to cyl. #1.



Now my gauges show a delta of 25 degrees

Celsius with no. 4 being the hotter one.



Thanks again and Blue Skies.



cheers



Elmar

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:44 am Post subject: Cyl. Head Temperature Delta

This is also in the line of what I see: 4 is the second hottest, and 1 is

in between the coldest (nr 6) and the hottest (nr 3).

So this delta of 25 degrees is also what I measure, (with a difference of

a few degrees).



Jan



On 21/06/12 20:22, "Elmar & Manuela Hegenauer" <samira.h(at)shaw.ca> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

<samira.h(at)shaw.ca>



Hi again,



thank you very much for your input

and thoughts on this matter, much

appreciated.



Years ago someone on the list stated

that cylinder No. 4 runs the coolest

due the greater mass of the master rod,

hence better heat dissipation.



My extension leads were decayed to a

degree where replacement was absolutely

necessary.



I couldn't find any original leads (russian

GOST standard) so I had to buy US CHT

gauges including extensions and thermocouples.



These have been installed according to

the maintenance book - front cockpit

gauges connected to cyl. #4 and rear

cockpit to cyl. #1.



Now my gauges show a delta of 25 degrees

Celsius with no. 4 being the hotter one.



Thanks again and Blue Skies.



cheers



Elmar

dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:49 am Post subject: Cyl. Head Temperature Delta

Elmar,I stock P/N 5SH.422.001 which is the Chinese CHT thermo couple lead, 7 feet long.  It has the connections on one end to accept the CHT probe wires and has the gauge plug on the other end.  

 Best,

Doug

 



On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Elmar & Manuela Hegenauer <samira.h(at)shaw.ca (samira.h(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: Elmar & Manuela Hegenauer <samira.h(at)shaw.ca (samira.h(at)shaw.ca)>

  

 Hi again,

 

 thank you very much for your input

 and thoughts on this matter, much

 appreciated.

 

 Years ago someone on the list stated

 that cylinder No. 4 runs the coolest

 due the greater mass of the master rod,

 hence better heat dissipation.

 

 My extension leads were decayed to a

 degree where replacement was absolutely

 necessary.

 

 I couldn't find any original leads (russian

 GOST standard) so I had to buy US CHT

 gauges including extensions and thermocouples.

 

 These have been installed according to

 the maintenance book - front cockpit

 gauges connected to cyl. #4 and rear

 cockpit to cyl. #1.

 

 Now my gauges show a delta of 25 degrees

 Celsius with no. 4 being the hotter one.

 

 Thanks again and Blue Skies.

 

 cheers

 

 Elmar

 

 

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 rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

 ====================================

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ====================================

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ====================================

 

 

 

 [b]

PaulW

Joined: 14 May 2013
Posts: 25

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:55 am Post subject: Re: Cyl. Head Temperature Delta

Hi



I have been looking and Googling, but cannot find the info I need. I am sure someone here will know.



1. Where is the CHT sensor fitted? I read somewhere at the hottest and coldest cylinder. So there are two? Also read it is close to the rear sparkplug?



2. Which cylinder is which? How do you count if you are in front or rear? I know 1 is at the top, but which one exactly and which direction do you start counting?

threein60(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:39 am Post subject: Cyl. Head Temperature Delta

I believe most radials have it installed on the number four or which ever is the master rod.Larry

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android     From:"PaulW" <paul(at)budcyber.com>

Date:Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 10:17

Subject:Re: Cyl. Head Temperature Delta

 --> Yak-List message posted by: "PaulW" <[url=javascript:return]paul(at)budcyber.com[/url]>

Hi

I have been looking and  Googling, but cannot find the info I need. I am sure someone here will know.

1. Where is the CHT sensor fitted? I read somewhere at the hottest and coldest cylinder. So there are two? Also read it is close to the rear sparkplug?

2. Which cylinder is which? How do you count if you are in front or rear? I know 1 is at the top, but which one exactly and which direction do you start counting?

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=44"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List" target="_blank">http://www.=   -->         

 [quote][b]

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:12 pm Post subject: Cyl. Head Temperature Delta

CHT probes are under the rear spark plugs.  On the Yak 52, both are under #4. (Some people split them between 3 and 4).   On the CJ they are typically split between two rear plugs.  #4 and #3 or possibly #2.   They are easy to see.  Look for a wrapped wire bundle going to the rear plugs.



Looking at the front of the engine, Cylinder number 1 is at the very top.  looking at the front of the engine, count clockwise 1,2,3,4,5 then the sum, 6,7,8,9.

Dennis  



        From: PaulW <paul(at)budcyber.com>

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2015 12:55 PM

 Subject: Re: Cyl. Head Temperature Delta

  

 

--> Yak-List message posted by: "PaulW" <paul(at)budcyber.com (paul(at)budcyber.com)>



Hi



I have been looking and Googling, but cannot find the info I need. I am sure someone here will know.



1. Where is the CHT sensor fitted? I read somewhere at the hottest and coldest cylinder. So there are two? Also read it is close to the rear sparkplug?



2. Which cylinder is which? How do you count if you are in front or rear? I know 1 is at the top, but which one exactly and which direction do you start counting?





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448330#448========================http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List<; http://forums.sp;            - List Contribution Web Site -

_;                     &nb://www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.c===================

 

 

  

 [quote][b]

wlannon(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:38 pm Post subject: Cyl. Head Temperature Delta

Cj6,  Yk50, 52, Or??



--

Ttail

Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 120

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:46 pm Post subject: Re: Cyl. Head Temperature Delta

CJ6 M14PF Ground Engine run.

PaulW

Joined: 14 May 2013
Posts: 25

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:11 am Post subject: Re: Cyl. Head Temperature Delta

 	  wlannon(at)shaw.ca wrote: 	
		  Cj6,  Yk50, 52, Or??



-- 	




My bad   



Yak-52 M-14P.



Thank you to those who responded, that will help.



Ttail, that is a big difference between the pods. Am I reading it correctly? The one with arrow (7) is 199deg C and the others thus higher?

What is the highest? Can't make it out on the photo.



What I noticed on the last flight and I am not sure whether I am imagining things, but it felt like the cockpit was warmer than normal, after stopping engine and climbing out and walking around the YAK, that the left as standing in front of the plane is warmer than the left.

Is that normal?



That is why I thought I'd like to check the temperature probes, where they are, etc.

If it is measuring the coolest cylinder, some of the others may become very hot indeed even if the coolest is still in spec on the CHT gauge.



I don't have a monitor system to measure each cylinder. Pretty much a stock YAK.



What I also found is that it is smoking a bit while on idle even after flight from righthand side exhaust plus the righthand side exhaust have a little oil on the outside which come from between the most bottom piece and the next one up, ie most bottom joint. But it doesn't look like the normal oil that is black and drip out of the exhaust when stationary, so it could be smoke system oil, but I somehow doubt it. Smoke system off and still oil doesn't seem possible.

AMO reckons rings might need to be replaced.

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 3:02 am Post subject: Cyl. Head Temperature Delta

Then both CHT's are typically on the #4 rear plug.

Dennis

        From: PaulW <paul(at)budcyber.com>

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2015 6:11 AM

 Subject: Re: Cyl. Head Temperature Delta

--> Yak-List message posted by: "PaulW" <paul(at)budcyber.com (paul(at)budcyber.com)>

wlannon(at)shaw.ca wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Cj6,  Yk50, 52, Or??

 --

My bad  [Embarassed] 

Yak-52 M-14P.

Thank you to those who responded, that will help.

Ttail, that is a big difference between the pods. Am I reading it correctly? The one with arrow (7) is 199deg C and the others thus higher?

What is the highest? Can't make it out on the photo.

What I noticed on the last flight and I am not sure whether I am imagining things, but it felt like the cockpit was warmer than normal, after stopping engine and climbing out and walking around the YAK, that the left as standing in front of the plane is warmer than the left.

Is that normal?

That is why I thought I'd like to check the temperature probes, where they are, etc.

If it is measuring the coolest cylinder, some of the others may become very hot indeed even if the coolest is still in spec on the CHT gauge.

I don't have a monitor system to measure each cylinder. Pretty much a stock YAK.

What I also found is that it is smoking a bit while on idle even after flight from righthand side exhaust plus the righthand side exhaust have a little oil on the outside which come from between the most bottom piece and the next one up, ie most bottom joint. But it doesn't look like the normal oil that is black and drip out of the exhaust when stationary, so it could be smoke system oil, but I somehow doubt it. Smoke system off and still oil doesn't seem possible.

AMO reckons rings might need to be replaced.

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.cotp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List" target="_blank">http://www.mat   -->  [quote][b]

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