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BRS

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wladimirkummer(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 5:07 pm Post subject: BRS

Hello,



Do you know of any Europa with a BRS? Iâ€™m considering installing one in my MotorGlider. Still have the fuse top not bonded so I figure would be a not so difficult mod.



Any ideas?



Best



Wladimir

Kit no. A193, XS Motorglider

Joinville - SC - Brazil

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Fred Klein

Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 503

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:26 pm Post subject: BRS

 	  Quote: 	
		  On Oct 30, 2015, at 6:06 PM, Wladimir Kummer <wladimirkummer(at)gmail.com (wladimirkummer(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Do you know of any Europa with a BRS? Iâ€™m considering installing one in my MotorGlider. Still have the fuse top not bonded so I figure would be a not so difficult mod.Any ideas?

	


I suggest a first step would be to contact Boris at BRS and spell out your desires. 



You may be familiar with the methods used to embed the harness in linear recesses and cover them w/ break-away FG surface skins in the Cirrus. I suspect those would be challenging to retrofit into the Europa pre-moulded fuselage; however,  the extent to which that is necessary would depend upon C of G considerations. As an alternative, potentially, a hard point of sufficient strength could be established between the two doors which would minimize the necessary harness, but such calculations are way above my pay grade.



Though I can only speculate, my hunch is that the weight of the installation would suck up all of your baggage allowance and a good portion of weight allocated for fuel.



Consider also the fact that the BRS system is intended to save lives, not airframes, and few if any of the Cirrus aircraft which have descended beneath a chute ever fly again.



Finally, consider the extent of the testing necessary for such a system to be deamed to be effective and reliableâ€¦are you really prepared to go there?



F.

 [quote][b]

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rowlandcarson(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:50 am Post subject: BRS

On 2015-10-31, at 01:06, Wladimir Kummer <wladimirkummer(at)gmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Do you know of any Europa with a BRS? I’m considering installing one in my MotorGlider. Still have the fuse top not bonded so I figure would be a not so difficult mod.


	


Wladimir - there was much work done on a BRS mod on kit 251 in UK. Miles McCallum published a series of articles in Flyer magazine on his progress (might be some info still available in online archives?). I seem to recall that there was a lot of calculation needed to determine the routing and termination of the cables etc to ensure the integrity of load paths. I think the extra weight introduced was quite a penalty too.  I believe the BRS mod proposal was eventually abandoned by Miles. The kit was eventually sold on unfinished, is now registered G-MLXP and may be flying.



My feeling is that a BRS system needs to be thought about at the basic design stage for the aircraft, not tacked on as an afterthought - particularly for composite structures.



in friendship



Rowland



| Rowland Carson          ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...

| <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com>            http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk

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John Wighton

Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 241

Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:55 am Post subject: Re: BRS

I am the engineer who did the load calcs and tried to route the BRS installation efficiently for Miles' Europa.  The rear mounted BRS was mounted to a structure in the aft bay, the strops were routed forward to the engine mount hard points and to the spar.  There were shallow channels in the composite skins which gave significant stress issues (local monolithic reinforcements, removal of foam core) caused by the load offset and subsequent local bending moments.  We devised a suitable scheme, l think Miles did some tests of the layup, showing the break-out force of the strop though the outer skin ply.



I did some work to determine the dynamic load factor caused by the chute opening, at that time BRS were developing their system.



The work was discussed with the PFA engineers who raised plenty of opposition and concerns. 



I think the final straw came when the (unused) BRS unit had to be re-packed to keep it in service.  Miles and Ian abandoned the scheme and we pushed on with the taildragger mods.



My own recommendation is that unless the primary structure of the aircraft is designed from the onset for the installation of the BRS (generic term intended) unit and associated load carrying strops, then forget it.  Wear a parachute instead maybe.

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_________________
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD

davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 5:36 am Post subject: BRS

Vladimir, The Europa has excellent small, rough field landing capabilities and the motor glider even more so., ESPECIALLY IF A MONO. The Rotax serries of engines have excellent reliability.  I would feel that contemplating a BRS system is vitually pointless, and inevitably would add significant weight. Much better to concentrate on building it as light as possible. 

Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ  

 

On 2015-10-31 09:50, Rowland Carson wrote: [quote]  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com (rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com)>



On 2015-10-31, at 01:06, Wladimir Kummer <wladimirkummer(at)gmail.com (wladimirkummer(at)gmail.com)> wrote:Do you know of any Europa with a BRS? I'm considering installing one in my MotorGlider. Still have the fuse top not bonded so I figure would be a not so difficult mod.Wladimir - there was much work done on a BRS mod on kit 251 in UK. Miles McCallum published a series of articles in Flyer magazine on his progress (might be some info still available in online archives?). I seem to recall that there was a lot of calculation needed to determine the routing and termination of the cables etc to ensure the integrity of load paths. I think the extra weight introduced was quite a penalty too.  I believe the BRS mod proposal was eventually abandoned by Miles. The kit was eventually sold on unfinished, is now registered G-MLXP and may be flying.



My feeling is that a BRS system needs to be thought about at the basic design stage for the aircraft, not tacked on as an afterthought - particularly for composite structures.



in friendship



Rowland



| Rowland Carson          ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...

| <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com (rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com)>            http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk

| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson      Facebook: Rowland Carson

| pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson



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 [b]

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wladimirkummer(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:00 am Post subject: BRS

Nice to have this wealth of knowledge! Thanks fellows. Now have to concentrate in building as light as possible. 



With lightness in mind do you guys have any advice about making it lighter? 



Wladimir

Europa XS MG Kit

Joinville - SC - Brazil

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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:32 am Post subject: BRS

Wladimir, The range of Europa ready for service weights runs from roughly 800 to 950 lbs with the (LAA) max AU limit of 1370lbs that leaves you with anywhere between 570 and 420lbs. 570 allows full fuel (around 115lbs), 80lbs luggage and 375lbs crew, that is two guys of around 13 stone/83kg. If you are on the wrong end of the weight spectrum your options are much more limited, quite apart from the degradation in performance and safety margins. My tips for keeping it light would be: 

1. Get your fibreglass work supervised by an expert, who will tell you the optimum, relatively dry resin/cloth ratio and probably insist on you using peelply on all lay ups. Extra resin makes the result weaker! 

2. Think critically about all equipment - do you actually need it? Is there a lighter alternative? Luxurious leather upholstery and coach lining should be viewed with deep suspicion! 

3. Kit it out with electronic instruments rather than steam age ones - much lighter as well as better suited to 21st century. 

4. Be very critical about the paint system. Multiple layers of filler, undercoat UV protection & top coats can weigh a substantial amount. check out how many cans of each are estimated to be needed and do the weight calculation. Almost certainly a professionally applied gelcoat (which needs no undercoat or UV protection coat, and half of which is taken off in the rubbing down process) will be significantly lighter, quite apart from producing the perfect finish. Don't paint hidden surfaces (aileron close outs & wing root areas) 

5. Be critical about the length of bolts you use - they only need to be just in safety - 2 threads showing 

6. Aim if poss to have your battery over the passenger footwell - much reduced length of heavy wire, & minimal battery box construction. Use a lighter modern battery such as an Odyssey. 

Best of luck, David Joyce, GXSDJ (914/ MONO/Woodcomp SR300W with very full panel & autopilot + gelcoat finish, weighing in at 837lbs) 

   

 

On 2015-11-01 10:59, Wladimir Kummer wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		    	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: Wladimir Kummer <wladimirkummer(at)gmail.com (wladimirkummer(at)gmail.com)>



Nice to have this wealth of knowledge! Thanks fellows. Now have to concentrate in building as light as possible. 



With lightness in mind do you guys have any advice about making it lighter? 



Wladimir

Europa XS MG Kit

Joinville - SC - Brazil



">www.buildersbooks.com

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    [quote][b] [quote][b]

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rampil

Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870

Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:43 am Post subject: Re: BRS

"With lightness in mind do you guys have any advice about making it lighter? 

Wladimir"



Allow me to pass along some advise I received (as part of a crowd) from

Burt Rutan:



In the course of building your aircraft, you may be tempted to add devices

or materials not specified in the plans. To test such materials, place them

in your palm. Sharply accelerate your hand vertically towards the sky. If

performed properly, the material or device will depart your hand skyward.

If the material falls back to earth, it is too heavy, do not add it to your

aircraft!



Bom Dia!

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_________________
Ira N224XS

Roland

Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 334
Location: EDLE

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:46 pm Post subject: Re: BRS

Hi Wladimir,



a Europa with a BRS does exist in the Netherlands. AFAIK it is the PH-GOO XS TG 914: https://luchtvaartregister.silk.co/page/PH-GOO

The attachment of the system is the spar and the engine mounting frame.



I'm wearing emergency parachutes in the Europa since you can escape quite easily through the doors, which most likely depart the aircraft, when opened in flight. After bailing out they open automatically down to a hight of 350ft. Weight penalty is about 4,5 kg each.



There are some scenarios thinkable like a fire/smoke at higher altitude, a midair, loss of control (e. g. in IMC), severe icing, structural failure (e. g. due to turbulence)... where a chute will possibly save you.



Regards

Roland

PH-ZTI

XS TG 914

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