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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
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 Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:48 am Post subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: CJ-6 Questions |
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I've been watching this conversation closely, wondering if anyone will mention the "rest of the story".
FYI, I fly the YAK-50 which has different gear actuators, but the rest of the pneumatic system is the same. The question was "will it hurt anything to leave the gear handle up during flight?" And Dennis answered that it would not. I agree... but will go one step further.
Leaving the gear handle UP offers you (the pilot) more information on the condition of your actuators and your pneumatic system in general, than it would if you returned the handle to NEUTRAL.
Why? I'll get to that in a second.
There is one very VALID REASON for putting the gear handle in the middle or NEUTRAL. Because it isolates the landing gear system from the rest of the aircrafts pneumatic system. This can be very useful to know. Let's say that you have a bad air leak in your pneumatic system, gear up *OR* gear down. This could mean that you might land with little to no air pressure for brakes once you lower the gear. Or it could be a bad leak with the gear UP, and again you are not able to have enough air pressure for brakes, or to lower the flaps.
By putting the gear handle in the MIDDLE, you isolate the landing gear from the rest of the pneumatic system and thus the leak as well. This allows your engine driven compressor to pump the bottle all the way back to full (50 Atmos, or 735 PSI) and now just before you land (in a CJ or 52) you can put the handle back to the DOWN position and still have a good chance of having enough air for brakes.
On the YAK-50 once the gear are down and locked, air has nothing more to do with keeping it down and locked, so you can actually lower the landing gear, put the handle back to NEUTRAL, allow the air to pump back up and LAND that way! Not recommended for anything except an emergency. This is not theory, I had to do it once on a ferry flight to California.
Leaving the gear handle UP on the CJ, 52 or 50, allows the pilot to see HOW LONG it takes for the AIR BOTTLE to re-pressurize. Or notice the fact that it is not re-pressurizing at ALL! This tells you right away that you have a bad leak someplace that needs to be addressed post-haste. If you put the gear handle in the middle right after raising the gear, you do not get to check that little tidbit of knowledge, and could thus easily fail to see a bad leak on the UP side of the gear system. Not to mention the hazard that Dennis pointed out of going directly to DOWN after the gear handle has sat in the middle for a little while.
Another thing that makes this fact worthy of knowing is what happens if your gear fails to extend properly. Before you go opening the EMERGENCY AIR VALVE, you can put the gear handle in the middle, allowing the air to pump back up and then lower the gear handle again to give the system another chance to work before you open the emergency air bottle. When you open the emergency air bottle, that can sometimes be a one shot deal. It either works, or you could end up landing on partially extended gear, etc.
Mark
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byronmfox(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:40 pm Post subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: CJ-6 Questions |
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Further to Mark's comments. It would appear, therefore, that by noting the time it takes the compressor to recharge the storage tank with the gear left in the up position versus the time it takes to recharge with the gear hand in the neutral would be useful in determining the likelihood of a leak in the gear-up air lines. All this assumes the CJ in question has up-locks installed. Do I misunderstand? Thanks.
On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 10:45 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)> wrote:
[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>
I've been watching this conversation closely, wondering if anyone will mention the "rest of the story".
FYI, I fly the YAK-50 which has different gear actuators, but the rest of the pneumatic system is the same.  The question was "will it hurt anything to leave the gear handle up during flight?"  And Dennis answered that it would not. I agree... but will go one step further.
Leaving the gear handle UP offers you (the pilot)Â more information on the condition of your actuators and your pneumatic system in general, than it would if you returned the handle to NEUTRAL.
Why?  I'll get to that in a second.
There is one very VALID REASON for putting the gear handle in the middle or NEUTRAL.  Because it isolates the landing gear system from the rest of the aircrafts pneumatic system. This can be very useful to know. Let's say that you have a bad air leak in your pneumatic system, gear up *OR* gear down. This could mean that you might land with little to no air pressure for brakes once you lower the gear. Or it could be a bad leak with the gear UP, and again you are not able to have enough air pressure for brakes, or to lower the flaps.
By putting the gear handle in the MIDDLE, you isolate the landing gear from the rest of the pneumatic system and thus the leak as well. This allows your engine driven compressor to pump the bottle all the way back to full (50 Atmos, or 735 PSI) and now just before you land (in a CJ or 52) you can put the handle back to the DOWN position and still have a good chance of having enough air for brakes.
On the YAK-50 once the gear are down and locked, air has nothing more to do with keeping it down and locked, so you can actually lower the landing gear, put the handle back to NEUTRAL, allow the air to pump back up and LAND that way!  Not recommended for anything except an emergency.  This is not theory, I had to do it once on a ferry flight to California.
Leaving the gear handle UP on the CJ, 52 or 50, allows the pilot to see HOW LONG it takes for the AIR BOTTLE to re-pressurize. Or notice the fact that it is not re-pressurizing at ALL!  This tells you right away that you have a bad leak someplace that needs to be addressed post-haste. If you put the gear handle in the middle right after raising the gear, you do not get to check that little tidbit of knowledge, and could thus easily fail to see a bad leak on the UP side of the gear system.  Not to mention the hazard that Dennis pointed out of going directly to DOWN after the gear handle has sat in the middle for a little while.
Another thing that makes this fact worthy of knowing is what happens if your gear fails to extend properly. Before you go opening the EMERGENCY AIR VALVE, you can put the gear handle in the middle, allowing the air to pump back up and then lower the gear handle again to give the system another chance to work before you open the emergency air bottle.  When you open the emergency air bottle, that can sometimes be a one shot deal. It either works, or you could end up landing on partially extended gear, etc.
Mark
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727gs(at)att.net
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:03 pm Post subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: CJ-6 Questions |
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I will take this under advisement and appreciate the input. Now back to the original question. Do I have an issue with the unlocks? They held the gear up before.Any input on the fuel draining from the intake manifold drain?Steve near Chicago
From: Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com>;
To: Yak LIst <yak-list(at)matronics.com>;
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: CJ-6 Questions
Sent: Mon, Nov 9, 2015 8:37:22 PM
Further to Mark's comments. It would appear, therefore, that by noting the time it takes the compressor to recharge the storage tank with the gear left in the up position versus the time it takes to recharge with the gear hand in the neutral would be useful in determining the likelihood of a leak in the gear-up air lines. All this assumes the CJ in question has up-locks installed. Do I misunderstand? Thanks.
On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 10:45 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <[url=javascript:return]mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil[/url]> wrote:
[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <[url=javascript:return]mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil[/url]>
I've been watching this conversation closely, wondering if anyone will mention the "rest of the story".
FYI, I fly the YAK-50 which has different gear actuators, but the rest of the pneumatic system is the same. The question was "will it hurt anything to leave the gear handle up during flight?" And Dennis answered that it would not. I agree... but will go one step further.
Leaving the gear handle UP offers you (the pilot) more information on the condition of your actuators and your pneumatic system in general, than it would if you returned the handle to NEUTRAL.
Why? I'll get to that in a second.
There is one very VALID REASON for putting the gear handle in the middle or NEUTRAL. Because it isolates the landing gear system from the rest of the aircrafts pneumatic system. This can be very useful to know. Let's say that you have a bad air leak in your pneumatic system, gear up *OR* gear down. This could mean that you might land with little to no air pressure for brakes once you lower the gear. Or it could be a bad leak with the gear UP, and again you are not able to have enough air pressure for brakes, or to lower the flaps.
By putting the gear handle in the MIDDLE, you isolate the landing gear from the rest of the pneumatic system and thus the leak as well. This allows your engine driven compressor to pump the bottle all the way back to full (50 Atmos, or 735 PSI) and now just before you land (in a CJ or 52) you can put the handle back to the DOWN position and still have a good chance of having enough air for brakes.
On the YAK-50 once the gear are down and locked, air has nothing more to do with keeping it down and locked, so you can actually lower the landing gear, put the handle back to NEUTRAL, allow the air to pump back up and LAND that way! Not recommended for anything except an emergency. This is not theory, I had to do it once on a ferry flight to California.
Leaving the gear handle UP on the CJ, 52 or 50, allows the pilot to see HOW LONG it takes for the AIR BOTTLE to re-pressurize. Or notice the fact that it is not re-pressurizing at ALL! This tells you right away that you have a bad leak someplace that needs to be addressed post-haste. If you put the gear handle in the middle right after raising the gear, you do not get to check that little tidbit of knowledge, and could thus easily fail to see a bad leak on the UP side of the gear system. Not to mention the hazard that Dennis pointed out of going directly to DOWN after the gear handle has sat in the middle for a little while.
Another thing that makes this fact worthy of knowing is what happens if your gear fails to extend properly. Before you go opening the EMERGENCY AIR VALVE, you can put the gear handle in the middle, allowing the air to pump back up and then lower the gear handle again to give the system another chance to work before you open the emergency air bottle. When you open the emergency air bottle, that can sometimes be a one shot deal. It either works, or you could end up landing on partially extended gear, etc.
Mark
--
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dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:28 pm Post subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: CJ-6 Questions |
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Stephen,
What is your procedure for shut down?Doug
On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 1:59 PM, Stephen Jones <727gs(at)att.net (727gs(at)att.net)> wrote:
[quote]I will take this under advisement and appreciate the input.
Now back to the original question. Do I have an issue with the unlocks? They held the gear up before.
Any input on the fuel draining from the intake manifold drain?
Steve near Chicago
From: Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)>;
To: Yak LIst <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>;
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: CJ-6 Questions
Sent: Mon, Nov 9, 2015 8:37:22 PM
Further to Mark's comments. It would appear, therefore, that by noting the time it takes the compressor to recharge the storage tank with the gear left in the up position versus the time it takes to recharge with the gear hand in the neutral would be useful in determining the likelihood of a leak in the gear-up air lines. All this assumes the CJ in question has up-locks installed. Do I misunderstand? Thanks.
On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 10:45 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil> wrote:
[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>
I've been watching this conversation closely, wondering if anyone will mention the "rest of the story".
FYI, I fly the YAK-50 which has different gear actuators, but the rest of the pneumatic system is the same.  The question was "will it hurt anything to leave the gear handle up during flight?"  And Dennis answered that it would not. I agree... but will go one step further.
Leaving the gear handle UP offers you (the pilot)Â more information on the condition of your actuators and your pneumatic system in general, than it would if you returned the handle to NEUTRAL.
Why?  I'll get to that in a second.
There is one very VALID REASON for putting the gear handle in the middle or NEUTRAL.  Because it isolates the landing gear system from the rest of the aircrafts pneumatic system. This can be very useful to know. Let's say that you have a bad air leak in your pneumatic system, gear up *OR* gear down. This could mean that you might land with little to no air pressure for brakes once you lower the gear. Or it could be a bad leak with the gear UP, and again you are not able to have enough air pressure for brakes, or to lower the flaps.
By putting the gear handle in the MIDDLE, you isolate the landing gear from the rest of the pneumatic system and thus the leak as well. This allows your engine driven compressor to pump the bottle all the way back to full (50 Atmos, or 735 PSI) and now just before you land (in a CJ or 52) you can put the handle back to the DOWN position and still have a good chance of having enough air for brakes.
On the YAK-50 once the gear are down and locked, air has nothing more to do with keeping it down and locked, so you can actually lower the landing gear, put the handle back to NEUTRAL, allow the air to pump back up and LAND that way!  Not recommended for anything except an emergency.  This is not theory, I had to do it once on a ferry flight to California.
Leaving the gear handle UP on the CJ, 52 or 50, allows the pilot to see HOW LONG it takes for the AIR BOTTLE to re-pressurize. Or notice the fact that it is not re-pressurizing at ALL!  This tells you right away that you have a bad leak someplace that needs to be addressed post-haste. If you put the gear handle in the middle right after raising the gear, you do not get to check that little tidbit of knowledge, and could thus easily fail to see a bad leak on the UP side of the gear system.  Not to mention the hazard that Dennis pointed out of going directly to DOWN after the gear handle has sat in the middle for a little while.
Another thing that makes this fact worthy of knowing is what happens if your gear fails to extend properly. Before you go opening the EMERGENCY AIR VALVE, you can put the gear handle in the middle, allowing the air to pump back up and then lower the gear handle again to give the system another chance to work before you open the emergency air bottle.  When you open the emergency air bottle, that can sometimes be a one shot deal. It either works, or you could end up landing on partially extended gear, etc.
Mark
--
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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