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JL2A
Joined: 07 Apr 2015
Posts: 113
Location: Australia
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 Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:02 am Post subject: Cleaning oil tank and cooler |
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Any particular methods people use for this?
Our R985 powered aircraft recommends draining old oil, removing oil cooler thermostat and filling with KEROSENE ONLY, leaving over night and draining in the morning to get rid of sludge and sediment.
Any reason this could be harmful to CJ oil system? Kind of like that you don't have to remove the tank & cooler with this method!
Thanks
Anatole
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richard.goode(at)russiana
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| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:26 am Post subject: Cleaning oil tank and cooler |
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I can say that, with the Russian oil cooler, cleaning with solvents will
never do a proper job which has to be done with ultrasonic cleansing. I
suspect the same holds for the Chinese one.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
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cjpilot710(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:34 am Post subject: Cleaning oil tank and cooler |
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I think a oil cooler can be kept efficient by doing number of things.
One. A good filter the in line on the way TO the cooler. Mine is a 10 micro filter and it is surprising how long the oil looks clean after a change.
Two. Changing the oil at regular intervals. Radials use a lot of oil, and most operators (particularly the one with large P&W or Wrights) don't find it economically advantages to dump 30 (sometime 50 gals) of oil all at once. However our engine don't have those quantities and if you DON'T have a fine filter it needs to be changed. I recommend every 30 hours (I forget what the book calls) and quite frankly I change mine between 35 and 40 hours because of how clean my oil looks with the filter. The filter get changed at the same time, is than cut opened and inspected.
Three. Because I have a filter, I usually clean my oil cooler every 2 years. That's about 200 to 250 hours of flying for me. Now if the cooler has never been clean before or you're doing it for the first time, I recommend what Richard says - an ultrasonic cleaning to the only to make sure the in side is free and clear and clean. However what I do (because of having the 10 micro filter) is remove the cooler from the airplane and put it in my parts washer, turn on the pump, and walk away for a couple of hours.
Four. Use detergent Oil. This is pretty important. The crap that builds up from internal combustion stays suspended in detergent oil and is thus taken out by the filter. However this is something to remember DON"T put detergent oil into an engine that has never used it. The reason is the detergent oil will brake up the sludge which may end up blocking a oil passage. Of course this will effect an oil cooler too.
A good number of years ago, I was told that any particulate in an engine oil system that was over 25 micros in size, would cause ware of the internal engines parts. Of course the normal engine oil screen allows much larger stuff to pass (something like - only stopping stuff with part numbers). In the initial design of these engines for a government, it wasn't considered necessary. But I've seen large engines (1820s & 1830s) with 25 micro filter go well over 1,000 hours before being changed and still running well and good compressions. In WW2 they were changed around 400 hours.
So once you get that oil cooler cleaned, putting on a good filter, will keep it and the rest of the engine clean much longer.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 9/18/2015 7:26:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com writes:
[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Richard Goode" <richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com>
I can say that, with the Russian oil cooler, cleaning with solvents will
never do a proper job which has to be done with ultrasonic cleansing. I
suspect the same holds for the Chinese one.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
--
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JL2A
Joined: 07 Apr 2015
Posts: 113
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: Cleaning oil tank and cooler |
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well - Jim you've hit the nail on the head here - my oil has always been straight mineral oil (Aeroshell 100) and I've got a barrel of Phillips 25W-60 I wanna use!
I was told the same thing - never switch to AD oil if you've been on straight - however on further investigation I'm told it can be done, first by cleaning tank and cooler, then by slowly introducing the AD oil, 1 quart at a time, and checking & cleaning oil screens regularly as it is introduced.
After all, weren't all our CJs run on straight oil in China, and lots of folks are running AD oils which means they must have changed over at some point?
I've had an oil pump fail on the delivery flight - less than 2 hours since 'overhaul' and we got a HEAP of sludge in the screen. A lot must've gone through and ground the oil pump housing out a bit, causing it to slowly fail.
So I'm thinking ultrasonic cleaning and slow introduction with lots of checking may be ok?
I spoke to a very well known aircraft engine oil tech and he said AD is something that locks on to the unburnt fuel molecules in the oil, which are some of the nastier stuff to have as they form corrosive molecules with moisture very quickly. I thought it was an old wives tail that they were a 'detergent'
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cjpilot710(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 6:52 pm Post subject: Cleaning oil tank and cooler |
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Well right now know that I am NOT a chemist in any stretch of the imagination. "AD" oils have always been "detergent" oil to me. I learn this on the knee best engine mechanic that EAL had, my Dad. I have NO idea what kind of oil they used in China. Doug Sapp could elucidate us there. And there are guys on this list who really really know oil. Please step in.
Anyway cleaning the oil tank, and cooler, will get the sludge out there for sure, but it can still be stuck in places in the engine. Can it be done? - - - I guess so, but I'd be personally on pins and needles for several oil changes and I'd do them more often. And I don't think I'd do it on an engine that had a lot time on it using mineral oil. That stuff builds up over operating time.
I do not use 25w-60. I know of a number people who swear by it. Every time I use it my M-14p I get oil leaks. I do NOT know why, but I get oil every where. I use 100 and in the summer I go to 120.
I know that 'back when' the procedure for a new overhaul engine was to 'break-in with straight mineral oil, that done switch to AD oils. One could STAY on mineral oil if one wanted to, but most mechanics considered AD better. I know you can see the difference on a tear down on an engine if it had used mineral oil or AD. An AD engine was much cleaner on the inside. But I believe there are even some engine that are required to use mineral oil.
JIm "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 9/18/2015 9:50:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au writes:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "JL2A" <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au>
well - Jim you've hit the nail on the head here - my oil has always been straight mineral oil (Aeroshell 100) and I've got a barrel of Phillips 25W-60 I wanna use!
I was told the same thing - never switch to AD oil if you've been on straight - however on further investigation I'm told it can be done, first by cleaning tank and cooler, then by slowly introducing the AD oil, 1 quart at a time, and checking & cleaning oil screens regularly as it is introduced.
After all, weren't all our CJs run on straight oil in China, and lots of folks are running AD oils which means they must have changed over at some point?
I've had an oil pump fail on the delivery flight - less than 2 hours since 'overhaul' and we got a HEAP of sludge in the screen. A lot must've gone through and ground the oil pump housing out a bit, causing it to slowly fail.
So I'm thinking ultrasonic cleaning and slow introduction with lots of checking may be ok?
I spoke to a very well known aircraft engine oil tech and he said AD is something that locks on to the unburnt fuel molecules in the oil, which are some of the nastier stuff to have as they form corrosive molecules with moisture very quickly. I thought it was an old wives tail that they were a 'detergent'
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JL2A
Joined: 07 Apr 2015
Posts: 113
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: Cleaning oil tank and cooler |
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Thanks Jim, food for thought! Looks like I might have a drum of 25w-60 for sale...
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glipaz
Joined: 11 Jan 2011
Posts: 110
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: Cleaning oil tank and cooler |
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How does the oil cooler come out? It seems that it is lodged between the ducts on either side which look to be riveted in place!
Gil
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