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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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 Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 2:57 pm Post subject: Autopilot Servos |
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I am fiddling around trying to work out where to put the Dynon autopilot servos.
I definitely don't want to get into the major surgery of the official mod.
Someone - sorry i forget who sent me a very pretty installation in the rear fuselage just behind the baggage bay.
Unfortunately I have rather a lot of stuff just in that location...fuel lines and wires etc.
I was just about to reinforce the rear fuselage and built a bridge over the rudder cable and then connect teh servo to the torque tube with ah bracket when I thought Id just ask the assembled wisdom. My feeling was the the fuselage floor is kinda weak and the torque tube also quite thin walled...which made me think about lateral loads on the torque tube.
Is there a downside to putting the servos in the cabin linked to the joint at the base of the joystick?
I have a lot of space under my legs . I built a reclined seat in order o fit my 6'4" under the door. Apart from the obvious issue of stepping on them which I would guess that one can deal with by putting them in a box is there a downside to this? Do the servos need cooling for example?
Many thanks
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:53 am Post subject: Autopilot Servos |
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Will, A simple solution is one Graham Singleton made an approved mod for, and which I have been flying with happily for 13 years It has a Navaid actuator bolted to the side of the tunnel on the floor just behind the pilot's R heel, with the actuator link joined to a light alloy bracket on the side of the U shaped bit at the bottom of the control column. It sounds as though it might get in the way but in fact doesn't. It is in a box, takes v little current and cooling is not an issue. It is of course just for a single axis controller. If it is of interest I could dig out paperwork and a picture and I have no doubt you could either get appropriate bits from Graham or adapt the design to a more modern actuator/s.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2015-11-01 22:56, William Daniell wrote: | Quote: | I am fiddling around trying to work out where to put the Dynon autopilot servos.
I definitely don't want to get into the major surgery of the official mod.
Someone - sorry i forget who sent me a very pretty installation in the rear fuselage just behind the baggage bay.
Unfortunately I have rather a lot of stuff just in that location...fuel lines and wires etc.
I was just about to reinforce the rear fuselage and built a bridge over the rudder cable and then connect teh servo to the torque tube with ah bracket when I thought Id just ask the assembled wisdom. My feeling was the the fuselage floor is kinda weak and the torque tube also quite thin walled...which made me think about lateral loads on the torque tube.
Is there a downside to putting the servos in the cabin linked to the joint at the base of the joystick?
I have a lot of space under my legs . I built a reclined seat in order o fit my 6'4" under the door. Apart from the obvious issue of stepping on them which I would guess that one can deal with by putting them in a box is there a downside to this? Do the servos need cooling for example?
Many thanks
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744
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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 2:36 am Post subject: Autopilot Servos |
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David
Thanks
A picture would be useful...
Paperwork not necessary were not so bureaucratic in colombia  .
Will On Nov 2, 2015 4:56 AM, <davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk)> wrote: | Quote: |
Will, A simple solution is one Graham Singleton made an approved mod for, and which I have been flying with happily for 13 years It has a Navaid actuator bolted to the side of the tunnel on the floor just behind the pilot's R heel, with the actuator link joined to a light alloy bracket on the side of the U shaped bit at the bottom of the control column. It sounds as though it might get in the way but in fact doesn't. It is in a box, takes v little current and cooling is not an issue. It is of course just for a single axis controller. If it is of interest I could dig out paperwork and a picture and I have no doubt you could either get appropriate bits from Graham or adapt the design to a more modern actuator/s.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2015-11-01 22:56, William Daniell wrote: | Quote: | I am fiddling around trying to work out where to put the Dynon autopilot servos.
I definitely don't want to get into the major surgery of the official mod.
Someone - sorry i forget who sent me a very pretty installation in the rear fuselage just behind the baggage bay.
Unfortunately I have rather a lot of stuff just in that location...fuel lines and wires etc.
I was just about to reinforce the rear fuselage and built a bridge over the rudder cable and then connect teh servo to the torque tube with ah bracket when I thought Id just ask the assembled wisdom. My feeling was the the fuselage floor is kinda weak and the torque tube also quite thin walled...which made me think about lateral loads on the torque tube.
Is there a downside to putting the servos in the cabin linked to the joint at the base of the joystick?
I have a lot of space under my legs . I built a reclined seat in order o fit my 6'4" under the door. Apart from the obvious issue of stepping on them which I would guess that one can deal with by putting them in a box is there a downside to this? Do the servos need cooling for example?
Many thanks
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
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rampil
Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:15 am Post subject: Re: Autopilot Servos |
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My BlueMountain autopilot servos are under the passenger seat and the
passenger floor boards. The arrangement was suggested by the FlightCrafters
team in Tampa and Bud can fill you in on the particulars. They have worked
quite well for a dozen years. The reaction forces are not astronomical and
fairly simple hard points of thin plywood bonded to the skin
appear quite adequate.
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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 7:37 am Post subject: Autopilot Servos |
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Yup...I am missing an access hole - the lower one of the right rear of the fuselage. My manual from 2003 doesn't have it but I looked on line and there it is. This will obviously make it possible to fit the plate to the torque tube. Thanks everyone.
Anyone got any experience of retrofitting an access panel??
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 8:29 AM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Ok...everyone seems either cleverer or more agile 😐
How on earth do you bolt said bracket to the tail torque tube bracket....i mean i can see where the bracket is located and how it's made i just don't see physically how to get at it to mount it.
I only have one inspction hole - the one on the upper fuse in front of the tail....am i missing a hole? (so to speak)
Will On Nov 2, 2015 8:06 AM, "daseitz" <daseitz(at)cfl.rr.com (daseitz(at)cfl.rr.com)> wrote: | Quote: |
I built a fiberglass mount over the rudder cables behind the counterbalance guides with a short pushrod to a longer arm bolted to the tailplane arm just under the existing pushrod.
Sent from my LG Mobile
------ Original message ------
From: William Daniell
Date: 11/1/2015 5:59 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com);
Subject:Europa-List: Autopilot Servos
I am fiddling around trying to work out where to put the Dynon autopilot servos.
I definitely don't want to get into the major surgery of the official mod.
Someone - sorry i forget who sent me a very pretty installation in the rear fuselage just behind the baggage bay.
Unfortunately I have rather a lot of stuff just in that location...fuel lines and wires etc.
I was just about to reinforce the rear fuselage and built a bridge over the rudder cable and then connect teh servo to the torque tube with ah bracket when I thought Id just ask the assembled wisdom. My feeling was the the fuselage floor is kinda weak and the torque tube also quite thin walled...which made me think about lateral loads on the torque tube.
Is there a downside to putting the servos in the cabin linked to the joint at the base of the joystick?
I have a lot of space under my legs . I built a reclined seat in order o fit my 6'4" under the door. Apart from the obvious issue of stepping on them which I would guess that one can deal with by putting them in a box is there a downside to this? Do the servos need cooling for example?
Many thanks
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
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graeme bird
Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 434
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:17 am Post subject: Re: Autopilot Servos |
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As I am waiting for my servos to arrive, naturally, I am very interested in this thread but I cant understand some of it.
Who has floorboards?
Access hole? are we talking about the one on the port side under the elevator? That is a long way back.
David Joyce seems to be talking about a roll servo, surely there is no problem with the mod position of that one, its the pitch mod that is complicated.
Behind the baggage bay looks best to me since I don't have the extended bay. The drawings for going under the extended baggage bay were done by Ian Rickard in April 2009 for the Trio gold servo. I found them searching on here for servo.
My only concern is weight moving back on a longish arm.
There is a tiny force required to move the pitch push rod back and forth.
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Graeme Bird
kit4 (Wagstaff) TBD
Kit3 G-CLXU (Gregory) mono 914 xs Woodcomp
Kit2 G-PATS - (kesterton) Mono Classic 912 warpdrive
Kit 1 G-UMPY - Mono Classic/XS 912S, Woodcomp G(@)gdbmk.co.uk |
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rampil
Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: Autopilot Servos |
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Hi Graeme,
Not bound by LAA, I have my pitch servo under a floorboard between the
pax seat and the floor shelf holding the rudder pedals.
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Ira N224XS |
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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:58 pm Post subject: Autopilot Servos |
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Ira,
Please can you send me a picture...or two. Especially of the connection between the servo push rod and the control column.
Will On Nov 3, 2015 8:53 PM, "rampil" <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com (ira.rampil(at)gmail.com)> wrote: | Quote: | --> Europa-List message posted by: "rampil" <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com (ira.rampil(at)gmail.com)>
Hi Graeme,
Not bound by LAA, I have my pitch servo under a floorboard between the
pax seat and the floor shelf holding the rudder pedals.
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448618#448618
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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:04 am Post subject: Autopilot Servos |
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Will, I am afraid I do not have any pix on file, but I will take some next time I visit the plane, although with Wx as is that might be a week or so. Regards, David
On 2015-11-02 10:35, William Daniell wrote: | Quote: |
David Thanks A picture would be useful... Paperwork not necessary were not so bureaucratic in colombia . Will On Nov 2, 2015 4:56 AM, <davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk)> wrote: | Quote: |
Will, A simple solution is one Graham Singleton made an approved mod for, and which I have been flying with happily for 13 years It has a Navaid actuator bolted to the side of the tunnel on the floor just behind the pilot's R heel, with the actuator link joined to a light alloy bracket on the side of the U shaped bit at the bottom of the control column. It sounds as though it might get in the way but in fact doesn't. It is in a box, takes v little current and cooling is not an issue. It is of course just for a single axis controller. If it is of interest I could dig out paperwork and a picture and I have no doubt you could either get appropriate bits from Graham or adapt the design to a more modern actuator/s.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2015-11-01 22:56, William Daniell wrote: | Quote: | I am fiddling around trying to work out where to put the Dynon autopilot servos.
I definitely don't want to get into the major surgery of the official mod.
Someone - sorry i forget who sent me a very pretty installation in the rear fuselage just behind the baggage bay.
Unfortunately I have rather a lot of stuff just in that location...fuel lines and wires etc.
I was just about to reinforce the rear fuselage and built a bridge over the rudder cable and then connect teh servo to the torque tube with ah bracket when I thought Id just ask the assembled wisdom. My feeling was the the fuselage floor is kinda weak and the torque tube also quite thin walled...which made me think about lateral loads on the torque tube.
Is there a downside to putting the servos in the cabin linked to the joint at the base of the joystick?
I have a lot of space under my legs . I built a reclined seat in order o fit my 6'4" under the door. Apart from the obvious issue of stepping on them which I would guess that one can deal with by putting them in a box is there a downside to this? Do the servos need cooling for example?
Many thanks
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744
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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:34 am Post subject: Autopilot Servos |
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Ah yes...i miss England from time to time but the England i miss is a june England not a november England...
On Nov 4, 2015 8:07 AM, <davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk)> wrote: | Quote: |
Will, I am afraid I do not have any pix on file, but I will take some next time I visit the plane, although with Wx as is that might be a week or so. Regards, David
On 2015-11-02 10:35, William Daniell wrote: | Quote: |
David
Thanks
A picture would be useful...
Paperwork not necessary were not so bureaucratic in colombia .
Will On Nov 2, 2015 4:56 AM, <davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Will, A simple solution is one Graham Singleton made an approved mod for, and which I have been flying with happily for 13 years It has a Navaid actuator bolted to the side of the tunnel on the floor just behind the pilot's R heel, with the actuator link joined to a light alloy bracket on the side of the U shaped bit at the bottom of the control column. It sounds as though it might get in the way but in fact doesn't. It is in a box, takes v little current and cooling is not an issue. It is of course just for a single axis controller. If it is of interest I could dig out paperwork and a picture and I have no doubt you could either get appropriate bits from Graham or adapt the design to a more modern actuator/s.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2015-11-01 22:56, William Daniell wrote: | Quote: | I am fiddling around trying to work out where to put the Dynon autopilot servos.
I definitely don't want to get into the major surgery of the official mod.
Someone - sorry i forget who sent me a very pretty installation in the rear fuselage just behind the baggage bay.
Unfortunately I have rather a lot of stuff just in that location...fuel lines and wires etc.
I was just about to reinforce the rear fuselage and built a bridge over the rudder cable and then connect teh servo to the torque tube with ah bracket when I thought Id just ask the assembled wisdom. My feeling was the the fuselage floor is kinda weak and the torque tube also quite thin walled...which made me think about lateral loads on the torque tube.
Is there a downside to putting the servos in the cabin linked to the joint at the base of the joystick?
I have a lot of space under my legs . I built a reclined seat in order o fit my 6'4" under the door. Apart from the obvious issue of stepping on them which I would guess that one can deal with by putting them in a box is there a downside to this? Do the servos need cooling for example?
Many thanks
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
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rampil
Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: Autopilot Servos |
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OK, some pix. All pix oriented looking down in front of pax seat.
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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:37 am Post subject: Autopilot Servos |
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Excellent thanks,
Do by any chance remember what rod end part no you used for the connection between the servo and the AN5 bolt at the bottom of the control column
I like the your way of connecting the wing servo.
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 11:12 PM, rampil <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com (ira.rampil(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
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Alfred Buess
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 67
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:12 am Post subject: Re: Autopilot Servos |
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William,
Attached is a picture of the Navaid Autopilot servo mounted on the passenger side footwell of my Europa. Pretty simple installation.
Regards, Alfred
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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:05 pm Post subject: Autopilot Servos |
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Excellent thanks.
Will On Nov 6, 2015 1:16 PM, "Alfred Buess" <ykibuess(at)bluewin.ch (ykibuess(at)bluewin.ch)> wrote: | Quote: | --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alfred Buess" <ykibuess(at)bluewin.ch (ykibuess(at)bluewin.ch)>
William,
Attached is a picture of the Navaid Autopilot servo mounted on the passenger side footwell of my Europa. Pretty simple installation.
Regards, Alfred
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448888#448888
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/navaid_servo_151.jpg
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budyerly(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:31 pm Post subject: Autopilot Servos |
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Will,
I’m to blame for the install of servos under the passengers feet. I did this in 1999 on 419PL when I started building it. I don’t do this any longer as taller passengers tended to dislike this loss of foot room as it puts their knees higher than comfortable while flying along. OK for those who fly with their feet on the rudder pedals or are a standard sized 5’ 10”. Also, these are heavy servos (Navaid, Blue Mountain, etc.) and weigh about 5 pounds. If you put the battery in the front, watch the weight in the cockpit. Strive for the 60-61 inch empty weight CG. You’ll have to keep the panel light. These are very long servos also, so in a crash, just unscrew it and it makes an excellent club for survival.
This setup under the feet also is a bit tough with the Garmin, Dynon, TruTrack and GRT servos. These light weight servos (about 2.5 pounds) are very good also, plus they have a smaller footprint, but they are taller. Reducing the foot well even more.
Here are two other ideas I have used for quite some time.
1st is a design I made to put the servo behind the baggage bay. See the drawing. It is dumb simple. It is a 3 to 2 arm on a bearing and two push rods so as to allow the servo to move about 45 degrees. Bob Berube and I consulted on this and I have made it my standard for retrofits where the only place to put the servo is behind the baggage bay. It can be installed after the top is on in a finished airplane by access through the D panel. It is not comfortable.
In all my aircraft, the roll servo goes under the pax seat. Make a simple metal plate of .060 aluminum and four nut plates to the face of the inboard seat hole. Attach the servo to it. Make an arm and attachment bracket for the stick. Fab a fiberglass cover to prevent the pax from impacting the arm.
2nd is a simple extension to the stab tube attachment point and hook up. Pretty simple, easy to bolt up if your plane has access panels which are positioned properly. I always have three access holes.
A 4 inch sight hole for the MAC trim servo, a 6 inch abeam the mass balance arm as in the book. I then put on the port side a single 6 inch to access below the pitch push rod to stab tube attachment. If you have those small Europa mandated sized holes for drug addicted anorexic maintainers, this may be painful to try unless installed during the build and access holes are well planned.
Always plan your servos so they cannot go over center and jam the controls. Many servos come with limit arms to prevent this, use them. The limit arms typically allow 45 degrees of movement max. Why use 45 degrees or close to that is to allow the servo to have a larger movement as the clutches and servo settings do not work well when the servo is limited to a full throw of less than 30 degrees.
I have better drawings in my archives, but it will be a while to get them as my servo was hit by lightning and fried so it needs to have its hard drive recovered.
[img]cid:C7B246FC6CA14382B8678A584046BD84(at)PCADMIN13[/img]
Just a thought as legroom in the Europa is at a premium.
Regards,
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations, Inc.
From: William Daniell (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2015 4:05 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: Autopilot Servos
Excellent thanks.
Will On Nov 6, 2015 1:16 PM, "Alfred Buess" <ykibuess(at)bluewin.ch (ykibuess(at)bluewin.ch)> wrote: | Quote: | --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alfred Buess" <ykibuess(at)bluewin.ch (ykibuess(at)bluewin.ch)>
William,
Attached is a picture of the Navaid Autopilot servo mounted on the passenger side footwell of my Europa. Pretty simple installation.
Regards, Alfred
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448888#448888
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/navaid_servo_151.jpg
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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:47 am Post subject: Autopilot Servos |
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Bud
thanks
sorry I didnt reply...on the road.
Is there any reason for the 3:2 arm on option no2 for the pitch servo. Would it be possible just to build a "bridge" over the rudder wires to bring the servo up to the right level?
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 10:30 PM, Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com (budyerly(at)msn.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Will,
I’m to blame for the install of servos under the passengers feet. I did this in 1999 on 419PL when I started building it. I don’t do this any longer as taller passengers tended to dislike this loss of foot room as it puts their knees higher than comfortable while flying along. OK for those who fly with their feet on the rudder pedals or are a standard sized 5’ 10”. Also, these are heavy servos (Navaid, Blue Mountain, etc.) and weigh about 5 pounds. If you put the battery in the front, watch the weight in the cockpit. Strive for the 60-61 inch empty weight CG. You’ll have to keep the panel light. These are very long servos also, so in a crash, just unscrew it and it makes an excellent club for survival.
This setup under the feet also is a bit tough with the Garmin, Dynon, TruTrack and GRT servos. These light weight servos (about 2.5 pounds) are very good also, plus they have a smaller footprint, but they are taller. Reducing the foot well even more.
Here are two other ideas I have used for quite some time.
1st is a design I made to put the servo behind the baggage bay. See the drawing. It is dumb simple. It is a 3 to 2 arm on a bearing and two push rods so as to allow the servo to move about 45 degrees. Bob Berube and I consulted on this and I have made it my standard for retrofits where the only place to put the servo is behind the baggage bay. It can be installed after the top is on in a finished airplane by access through the D panel. It is not comfortable.
In all my aircraft, the roll servo goes under the pax seat. Make a simple metal plate of .060 aluminum and four nut plates to the face of the inboard seat hole. Attach the servo to it. Make an arm and attachment bracket for the stick. Fab a fiberglass cover to prevent the pax from impacting the arm.
2nd is a simple extension to the stab tube attachment point and hook up. Pretty simple, easy to bolt up if your plane has access panels which are positioned properly. I always have three access holes.
A 4 inch sight hole for the MAC trim servo, a 6 inch abeam the mass balance arm as in the book. I then put on the port side a single 6 inch to access below the pitch push rod to stab tube attachment. If you have those small Europa mandated sized holes for drug addicted anorexic maintainers, this may be painful to try unless installed during the build and access holes are well planned.
Always plan your servos so they cannot go over center and jam the controls. Many servos come with limit arms to prevent this, use them. The limit arms typically allow 45 degrees of movement max. Why use 45 degrees or close to that is to allow the servo to have a larger movement as the clutches and servo settings do not work well when the servo is limited to a full throw of less than 30 degrees.
I have better drawings in my archives, but it will be a while to get them as my servo was hit by lightning and fried so it needs to have its hard drive recovered.
[img]cid:C7B246FC6CA14382B8678A584046BD84(at)PCADMIN13[/img]
Just a thought as legroom in the Europa is at a premium.
Regards,
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations, Inc.
From: William Daniell (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2015 4:05 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: Autopilot Servos
Excellent thanks.
Will On Nov 6, 2015 1:16 PM, "Alfred Buess" <ykibuess(at)bluewin.ch (ykibuess(at)bluewin.ch)> wrote:
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91.34 KB |
| Viewed: |
13693 Time(s) |
![Autopilot%20Servo%20Attachment[38].png](files/Autopilot_20Servo_20Attachment_38__100.png)
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budyerly(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:17 pm Post subject: Autopilot Servos |
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Will,
The 3:2 is to give the servo a bit more more throw. The pitch tube only moves about 1.25 inches which translates to a very small movement of the pitch servo arm.
On the pitch servo in the rear, it takes a fairly high block or bridge. Just make it robust enough. It’s dimensions escape me as it varies by servo. Depending on your servo choice and orientation, some fiddling is required to get it fairly level and yet clear the main tube and above all, be serviceable.
Just make sure the servo can never jam the flight control and is robustly attached to the airframe.
Regards.
Bud Yerly
From: William Daniell (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2015 9:45 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: Autopilot Servos
Bud
thanks
sorry I didnt reply...on the road.
Is there any reason for the 3:2 arm on option no2 for the pitch servo. Would it be possible just to build a "bridge" over the rudder wires to bring the servo up to the right level?
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 10:30 PM, Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com (budyerly(at)msn.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Will,
I’m to blame for the install of servos under the passengers feet. I did this in 1999 on 419PL when I started building it. I don’t do this any longer as taller passengers tended to dislike this loss of foot room as it puts their knees higher than comfortable while flying along. OK for those who fly with their feet on the rudder pedals or are a standard sized 5’ 10”. Also, these are heavy servos (Navaid, Blue Mountain, etc.) and weigh about 5 pounds. If you put the battery in the front, watch the weight in the cockpit. Strive for the 60-61 inch empty weight CG. You’ll have to keep the panel light. These are very long servos also, so in a crash, just unscrew it and it makes an excellent club for survival.
This setup under the feet also is a bit tough with the Garmin, Dynon, TruTrack and GRT servos. These light weight servos (about 2.5 pounds) are very good also, plus they have a smaller footprint, but they are taller. Reducing the foot well even more.
Here are two other ideas I have used for quite some time.
1st is a design I made to put the servo behind the baggage bay. See the drawing. It is dumb simple. It is a 3 to 2 arm on a bearing and two push rods so as to allow the servo to move about 45 degrees. Bob Berube and I consulted on this and I have made it my standard for retrofits where the only place to put the servo is behind the baggage bay. It can be installed after the top is on in a finished airplane by access through the D panel. It is not comfortable.
In all my aircraft, the roll servo goes under the pax seat. Make a simple metal plate of .060 aluminum and four nut plates to the face of the inboard seat hole. Attach the servo to it. Make an arm and attachment bracket for the stick. Fab a fiberglass cover to prevent the pax from impacting the arm.
2nd is a simple extension to the stab tube attachment point and hook up. Pretty simple, easy to bolt up if your plane has access panels which are positioned properly. I always have three access holes.
A 4 inch sight hole for the MAC trim servo, a 6 inch abeam the mass balance arm as in the book. I then put on the port side a single 6 inch to access below the pitch push rod to stab tube attachment. If you have those small Europa mandated sized holes for drug addicted anorexic maintainers, this may be painful to try unless installed during the build and access holes are well planned.
Always plan your servos so they cannot go over center and jam the controls. Many servos come with limit arms to prevent this, use them. The limit arms typically allow 45 degrees of movement max. Why use 45 degrees or close to that is to allow the servo to have a larger movement as the clutches and servo settings do not work well when the servo is limited to a full throw of less than 30 degrees.
I have better drawings in my archives, but it will be a while to get them as my servo was hit by lightning and fried so it needs to have its hard drive recovered.
[img]cid:791A9D6CB3EF4F8BB708159FFC12C6E2(at)PCADMIN13[/img]
Just a thought as legroom in the Europa is at a premium.
Regards,
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations, Inc.
From: William Daniell (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2015 4:05 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: Autopilot Servos
Excellent thanks.
Will On Nov 6, 2015 1:16 PM, "Alfred Buess" <ykibuess(at)bluewin.ch (ykibuess(at)bluewin.ch)> wrote:
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| Description: |
|
| Filesize: |
91.34 KB |
| Viewed: |
13639 Time(s) |
![Autopilot%20Servo%20Attachment[38].png](files/Autopilot_20Servo_20Attachment_38__179.png)
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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:20 am Post subject: Autopilot Servos |
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Excellent thanks.
Well as with everything else you change one thing and another challenge
appears. The bridge i am putting over the rudder cables makes the
turnbuckles for adjusting the cables impossible to get at/adjust. So I'll
have to move them.
One option would be to replace the cables with new, but before i do ....
It there an approved method replacing the turnbuckle with some sort of non
adjustable connection?
Thanks
Will
On Nov 21, 2015 8:20 PM, "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com> wrote:
[quote] Will,
The 3:2 is to give the servo a bit more more throw. The pitch tube only
moves about 1.25 inches which translates to a very small movement of the
pitch servo arm.
On the pitch servo in the rear, it takes a fairly high block or bridge.
Just make it robust enough. It’s dimensions escape me as it varies by
servo. Depending on your servo choice and orientation, some fiddling is
required to get it fairly level and yet clear the main tube and above all,
be serviceable.
Just make sure the servo can never jam the flight control and is robustly
attached to the airframe.
Regards.
Bud Yerly
*From:* William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com>
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 17, 2015 9:45 AM
*To:* europa-list(at)matronics.com
*Subject:* Re: Re: Autopilot Servos
Bud
thanks
sorry I didnt reply...on the road.
Is there any reason for the 3:2 arm on option no2 for the pitch servo.
Would it be possible just to build a "bridge" over the rudder wires to
bring the servo up to the right level?
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 10:30 PM, Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com> wrote:
> Will,
> I’m to blame for the install of servos under the passengers feet. I did
> this in 1999 on 419PL when I started building it. I don’t do this any
> longer as taller passengers tended to dislike this loss of foot room as it
> puts their knees higher than comfortable while flying along. OK for those
> who fly with their feet on the rudder pedals or are a standard sized 5’
> 10”. Also, these are heavy servos (Navaid, Blue Mountain, etc.) and weigh
> about 5 pounds. If you put the battery in the front, watch the weight in
> the cockpit. Strive for the 60-61 inch empty weight CG. You’ll have to
> keep the panel light. These are very long servos also, so in a crash, just
> unscrew it and it makes an excellent club for survival.
>
> This setup under the feet also is a bit tough with the Garmin, Dynon,
> TruTrack and GRT servos. These light weight servos (about 2.5 pounds) are
> very good also, plus they have a smaller footprint, but they are taller.
> Reducing the foot well even more.
>
> Here are two other ideas I have used for quite some time.
> 1st is a design I made to put the servo behind the baggage bay. See the
> drawing. It is dumb simple. It is a 3 to 2 arm on a bearing and two push
> rods so as to allow the servo to move about 45 degrees. Bob Berube and I
> consulted on this and I have made it my standard for retrofits where the
> only place to put the servo is behind the baggage bay. It can be installed
> after the top is on in a finished airplane by access through the D panel
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