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Alternator and regulator connections

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bob.verwey(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:20 am Post subject: Alternator and regulator connections

Happy Holidays everyone!

Time for me to emerge from my lurking mode to enlist some help.

I have a Kelly Aerospace ALY 8520 alternator, with two field connections.

The regulator is an Echlin unit, 5 MSA 6, a locally built automotive unit with 5 wires:

warn lite

ign

reg sense --not sure what this is for

neg

field.

Now despite trawling the web, and being electrically challenged, I am unable to figure out how to connect this setup.

Regards the warn lite...would there be 12v emanating from the regulator so that a lite with one terminal grounded would then light up?

I would really appreciate some help or suggestions!

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1921
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:02 am Post subject: Re: Alternator and regulator connections

Here are some educated guesses:

Reg Sense: Connect to main power bus through a fuse.  Do not connect to IGN terminal.

Warn Lite: Use the trial and error method.  The lamp will limit the current so hopefully no harm will be done if polarity is wrong.  I suggest first connecting the lamp to the main power bus through a fuse.  It should light up when the engine is not running.  If not, then try connecting the lamp to ground.

_________________
Joe Gores

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:26 pm Post subject: Alternator and regulator connections

At 10:02 AM 12/29/2015, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>



 Here are some educated guesses:

 Reg Sense: Connect to main power bus through a fuse.  Do not connect to IGN terminal.

 Warn Lite: Use the trial and error method.  The lamp will limit the current so hopefully no harm will be done if polarity is wrong.  I suggest first connecting the lamp to the main power bus through a fuse.  It should light up when the engine is not running.  If not, then try connecting the lamp to ground. 	


   Joe has it nailed . . . 



   With respect to TWO field terminals on

   alternator. Ground ONE and run the other to

   the F terminal on regulator. These terminals

   are not polarity sensitive.



 

 

   Bob . . .

bob.verwey(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:56 pm Post subject: Alternator and regulator connections

Ah, the power of Aeroelectric !

Thanks Guys, always learning!

On 29 December 2015 at 22:24, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    At 10:02 AM 12/29/2015, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)>



 Here are some educated guesses:

 Reg Sense: Connect to main power bus through a fuse.  Do not connect to IGN terminal.

 Warn Lite: Use the trial and error method.  The lamp will limit the current so hopefully no harm will be done if polarity is wrong.  I suggest first connecting the lamp to the main power bus through a fuse.  It should light up when the engine is not running.  If not, then try connecting the lamp to ground. 	


   Joe has it nailed . . . 



   With respect to TWO field terminals on

   alternator. Ground ONE and run the other to

   the F terminal on regulator. These terminals

   are not polarity sensitive.



 

 

   Bob . . .  

	




-- 

Best...Bob Verwey

yellowduckduo(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:13 am Post subject: Alternator and regulator connections

If the regulator is an unknown automobile unit, isn't it more likely 

that one field terminal should go to positive rather than ground as per 

most cars since the 70's.



Before permanently wiring anything, I would be inclined to test whether 

the regulator F terminal goes to ground or positive when system voltage 

is low.

Similar for the Light terminal as it may need the warning light bulb to 

positive voltage rather than ground.

Ken



On 29/12/2015 3:24 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   At 10:02 AM 12/29/2015, you wrote:

> 

>

> Here are some educated guesses:

> Reg Sense: Connect to main power bus through a fuse.  Do not connect 

> to IGN terminal.

> Warn Lite: Use the trial and error method.  The lamp will limit the 

> current so hopefully no harm will be done if polarity is wrong.  I 

> suggest first connecting the lamp to the main power bus through a 

> fuse.  It should light up when the engine is not running.  If not, 

> then try connecting the lamp to ground.



   Joe has it nailed . . .



   With respect to TWO field terminals on

   alternator. Ground ONE and run the other to

   the F terminal on regulator. These terminals

   are not polarity sensitive.

   Bob . . .

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1921
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 6:53 am Post subject: Re: Alternator and regulator connections

This particular alternator has two field connections.  One field terminal does go to positive (from the regulator).  And the other one goes to negative.  Polarity does not matter because an alternator produces AC voltage.  So even if the polarity of the field wires is reversed, the alternator will still produce AC voltage.  Six diodes rectify the 3 phase AC from the stator windings into DC.

 Unlike this alternator, most modern automotive alternators have the voltage regulator located inside of the alternator case.  Some of these automotive alternators might have a terminal marked "F".  But that terminal does not connect to an external voltage regulator because there is already one inside of the alternator case.

https://alternatorparts.com/understanding-alternators.html

_________________
Joe Gores

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1921
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:04 am Post subject: Re: Alternator and regulator connections

Below is a link to a Youtube animated movie that explains how alternators work.

http://tinyurl.com/Alternator-Explained

_________________
Joe Gores

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:24 pm Post subject: Alternator and regulator connections

At 09:04 AM 12/30/2015, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>



 Below is a link to a Youtube animated movie that explains how alternators work.

  http://tinyurl.com/Alternator-Explained

 	


   This video is a little mis-leading. The final

   evolutionary step in alternator development 

   shows a dc generator driving a commutator wtih

   power pickoff brushes driving the alternator's

   slip rings. 



   I don't think anyone would build one this way

   because the whole idea behind the itty-bitty

   generator sharing a shaft with the alternator

   is to arrive at a totally BRUSHLESS design.



   A tiny alternator with a rotating power winding

   excited by a STATIONARY field would excite a small

   3-phase rectifier on the rotating assembly and

   wired such that DC power output excites the

   ROTATING field of the main alternator. ALL

   brushless designs will exploit this configuration

   for wild frequency AC alternators, constant

   speed alternators or beefy versions of the

   legacy vehicular alternator/rectifiers

   machines but with no slip-rings.



 

 

   Bob . . .

bob.verwey(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:18 am Post subject: Alternator and regulator connections

Guys thanks for all the replies!

So I connected everything as postulated by Joe and Bob, and I am seeing 14.2 volts on the Bus, which I believe to be correct.



The only thing is that the warn lite connection shows +12v when the master is turned on, and it does not extinguish when the voltage stabilizes and the amp meter is showing a good charge.

Any more ideas?

Happy New Year, one and all!

On 30 December 2015 at 23:22, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    At 09:04 AM 12/30/2015, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)>



 Below is a link to a Youtube animated movie that explains how alternators work.

  http://tinyurl.com/Alternator-Explained

 	


   This video is a little mis-leading. The final

   evolutionary step in alternator development 

   shows a dc generator driving a commutator wtih

   power pickoff brushes driving the alternator's

   slip rings. 



   I don't think anyone would build one this way

   because the whole idea behind the itty-bitty

   generator sharing a shaft with the alternator

   is to arrive at a totally BRUSHLESS design.



   A tiny alternator with a rotating power winding

   excited by a STATIONARY field would excite a small

   3-phase rectifier on the rotating assembly and

   wired such that DC power output excites the

   ROTATING field of the main alternator. ALL

   brushless designs will exploit this configuration

   for wild frequency AC alternators, constant

   speed alternators or beefy versions of the

   legacy vehicular alternator/rectifiers

   machines but with no slip-rings.



 

 

   Bob . . .  

	




-- 

Best...Bob Verwey

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:53 am Post subject: Alternator and regulator connections

At 10:17 AM 12/31/2015, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Guys thanks for all the replies!

 So I connected everything as postulated by Joe and Bob, and I am seeing 14.2 volts on the Bus, which I believe to be correct.



 The only thing is that the warn lite connection shows +12v when the master is turned on, and it does not extinguish when the voltage stabilizes and the amp meter is showing a good charge.

 	


   As a general rule, alternator failure lights

   built into regulators are of limited value

   and should never take the place of ACTIVE

   NOTIFICATION of low bus voltage. I presume

   you have this function in place with

   other hardware. I never hook up the built-in

   lights.



 

 

   Bob . . .

bob.verwey(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:11 pm Post subject: Alternator and regulator connections

Bob thanks,

I have the EFIS alarm so will ignore the warning lite connection.





On 31 December 2015 at 21:51, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    At 10:17 AM 12/31/2015, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Guys thanks for all the replies!

 So I connected everything as postulated by Joe and Bob, and I am seeing 14.2 volts on the Bus, which I believe to be correct.



 The only thing is that the warn lite connection shows +12v when the master is turned on, and it does not extinguish when the voltage stabilizes and the amp meter is showing a good charge.

 	


   As a general rule, alternator failure lights

   built into regulators are of limited value

   and should never take the place of ACTIVE

   NOTIFICATION of low bus voltage. I presume

   you have this function in place with

   other hardware. I never hook up the built-in

   lights.



 

 

   Bob . . .  

	




-- 

Best...Bob Verwey

bob.verwey(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:30 pm Post subject: Alternator and regulator connections

What is the function of the AUX connection?

On 1 January 2016 at 09:09, Bob Verwey <bob.verwey(at)gmail.com (bob.verwey(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Bob thanks,

I have the EFIS alarm so will ignore the warning lite connection.





On 31 December 2015 at 21:51, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    At 10:17 AM 12/31/2015, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Guys thanks for all the replies!

 So I connected everything as postulated by Joe and Bob, and I am seeing 14.2 volts on the Bus, which I believe to be correct.



 The only thing is that the warn lite connection shows +12v when the master is turned on, and it does not extinguish when the voltage stabilizes and the amp meter is showing a good charge.

 	


   As a general rule, alternator failure lights

   built into regulators are of limited value

   and should never take the place of ACTIVE

   NOTIFICATION of low bus voltage. I presume

   you have this function in place with

   other hardware. I never hook up the built-in

   lights.



 

 

   Bob . . .  

	




-- 

Best...Bob Verwey



 

 	




-- 

Best...Bob Verwey

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