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trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
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 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:26 am Post subject: Choosing an EFIS system and brand |
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Guys
I would like to hear your opinions about the EFIS systems and brands which are NOW in the market for an RV-10.
Of course there are many factors, like quality, price, support, system integration, features and so on, in this or another order…
About the system I mean number of displays, single or double AHRS, integrated radio and/or transponder, integrated GPS and ADS-B, integrated auto-pilot, etc.
About brand, you know…
But if you were to choose now which EFIS brand and system to put in your RV-10, what would you choose?
(I know it depends on how much $ you can spend, but just wondering what is the current situation)
Regards
Carlos
 Este e-mail foi enviado a partir de um computador sem vírus protegido pela Avast. www.avast.com
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flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:15 am Post subject: Choosing an EFIS system and brand |
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Whoa!!! I think you'd be better off asking about primer ...... 
I can only offer my choice and reasons for it.
I went with MGL (http://mglavionics.co.za/) ..... probably too early in my build, since there's been a lot of new models to choose from.
There were two main selling points ..... the ability to customize my screens (there are 9 of them) and the RDAC which mounts inside the engine compartment and gathers all the engine sensor data so only three #22 wires go through the firewall.
I chose the Odyssey 10" panel because I'm old and don't see as well as I used to. GPS, autopilot, AOA, altitude encoder..... everything but radios, transponder, compass and AHRS is integrated into that panel. CAN bus, RS-232 and 'airtalk' communicate with external boxes.
I chose to make the two panels 'independent' with their own compass and AHRS which cost a little more than backup round gauges. My panel is removable as you see it here with harness plugs on the far right and left using a combination of 'D' and Molex connectors. I can power it up on the bench and install new equipment if needed.
They also have autopilot servos that will handle the stiff RV-10 elevator.
The downside ......
Rainier, the chief designer, is pretty much a 'one man shop' ..... there are others working there .... so new products are 'his' designs, and there may be a long wait for 'bugs' to be fixed .... especially in the older product lines.
If you have specific questions, I'll try to answer.
Here's a pic of my panel ...... The only thing missing is the Trig transponder which is below the left radio. Lots of progress made since this pic was taken.
[img]cid:part1.06010004.05000005(at)cfl.rr.com[/img]
Good luck with your decision ..... it's a tough choice for all of us. Make sure your panel meets the 'mission requirements'.
Linn
On 1/27/2016 8:22 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote:
| Quote: | <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
Guys
I would like to hear your opinions about the EFIS systems and brands which are NOW in the market for an RV-10.
Of course there are many factors, like quality, price, support, system integration, features and so on, in this or another order…
About the system I mean number of displays, single or double AHRS, integrated radio and/or transponder, integrated GPS and ADS-B, integrated auto-pilot, etc.
About brand, you know…
But if you were to choose now which EFIS brand and system to put in your RV-10, what would you choose?
(I know it depends on how much $ you can spend, but just wondering what is the current situation)
Regards
Carlos
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glastar(at)gmx.net
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:21 am Post subject: Choosing an EFIS system and brand |
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Carlos,
I recommend you visit the Aero end of April and look at them.
The big 4 in Experimental today are probably:
Garmin G3X
Advanced Flight Systems
Dynon Skyview
Grand Rapid Technologies
Prices depends on screen size and features.
Garmin and Dynon have their integrated COM/transponder and AP, AFS could
meanwhile probably have as well the Dynon parts integrated.
AFS and GRT do integrate very well with TruTrak as AP.
You need to take cost wise into account what the database will cost you
yearly (as for Europe this is extra cost).
Find out what you want to achieve, what is your mission, what is your
budget, what is a must feature wise, what is nice to have, put it in a
spreadsheet compare prices (do not forget the extras) then goto the aero
ask questions and play with the interface to see which one you're
comfortable most.
my 2 cents 
On 27.01.2016 14:22, Carlos Trigo wrote:
| Quote: | Guys
I would like to hear your opinions about the EFIS systems and brands
which are NOW in the market for an RV-10.
|
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:46 am Post subject: Choosing an EFIS system and brand |
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You will find most of us favoring whatever brand we selected. I tend to
think of MGL as a minor player, not what I would want for major support.
I dislike Garmin for many reasons, but others love them.
My three favorites that I debated over were Dynon, AFS and GRT. For what
I wanted at the time autopilot was 4-5K extra for AFS and GRT because
you needed a separate 3rd party unit. I think they have since integrated
something into their software.
Acquisition cost and features will be one factor. Database cost and
repairs cost will be the other main players. I frankly don't know how
Garmin handles that with the G3X system. I would hope it would be better
than with their other product lines like portables and certified panel
mounts, where you pay a big flat rate fee regardless of what you need
fixed.
I have been very happy with Dynon's upgrades, largely to meet customer
requests. Their "free" database updates and pay for IFR charts approach
works for me, but I'm sure there are other reasonable alternatives.
You need to spend time at an airshow where vendors are displaying, and
ask more about costs and support, and less about features. They all have
most features you want, but ease of use and figuring them out takes time
to assess, and several subsequent visits to learn what you missed the
first time. If you are outside the US, costs, data update sources and
costs will all matter.
On 1/27/2016 6:22 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote:
| Quote: | Guys
I would like to hear your opinions about the EFIS systems and brands
which are NOW in the market for an RV-10.
Of course there are many factors, like quality, price, support, system
integration, features and so on, in this or another order…
About the system I mean number of displays, single or double AHRS,
integrated radio and/or transponder, integrated GPS and ADS-B,
integrated auto-pilot, etc.
About brand, you know…
But if you were to choose now which EFIS brand and system to put in your
RV-10, what would you choose?
(I know it depends on how much $ you can spend, but just wondering what
is the current situation)
Regards
Carlos
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
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flysrv10(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:29 am Post subject: Choosing an EFIS system and brand |
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Add Aspen to the list. They will or already have an experimental version.
Do not archive.
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On Jan 27, 2016, at 9:17 AM, Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> wrote:
Carlos,
I recommend you visit the Aero end of April and look at them.
The big 4 in Experimental today are probably:
Garmin G3X
Advanced Flight Systems
Dynon Skyview
Grand Rapid Technologies
Prices depends on screen size and features.
Garmin and Dynon have their integrated COM/transponder and AP, AFS could meanwhile probably have as well the Dynon parts integrated.
AFS and GRT do integrate very well with TruTrak as AP.
You need to take cost wise into account what the database will cost you yearly (as for Europe this is extra cost).
Find out what you want to achieve, what is your mission, what is your budget, what is a must feature wise, what is nice to have, put it in a spreadsheet compare prices (do not forget the extras) then goto the aero
ask questions and play with the interface to see which one you're comfortable most.
my 2 cents
> On 27.01.2016 14:22, Carlos Trigo wrote:
> Guys
>
> I would like to hear your opinions about the EFIS systems and brands
> which are NOW in the market for an RV-10.
|
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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stein(at)steinair.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:35 am Post subject: Choosing an EFIS system and brand |
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Oh Carlos – what a great question to which there is literally no single answer! If you get a chance and can give me a shout, we can chat and figure out some of the things that are specific to you that’ll make the decision easier….things like flight mission, experience, budget, timeline, so on and so forth.
What much of it comes down to anymore is “red car or blue car” or “Toyota vs. Honda”. What you’ll get is most people think their child is the prettiest, and most people will vehemently defend their choice (good or bad), which is a good thing but not entirely helpful for neophytes.
What I will tell you from the perspective of selling more of these than pretty much anyone else is that 99% of EFIS sales in the RV-10 are focused on Dynon and Garmin. Both are practically the same price, offer very similar functionality, a similar sizes. Other options are still available, but the reality is that Dynon and Garmin have solidified the horse race as two excellent choices. The others aren’t necessarily bad – we’re just talking different levels of good here, but both Dynon and Garmin obviously are putting a whole lot of energy behind continued development, support and functionality growth.
Just my 2 cents as usual!
Cheers,
Stein
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Trigo
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 7:23 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Choosing an EFIS system and brand
Guys
I would like to hear your opinions about the EFIS systems and brands which are NOW in the market for an RV-10.
Of course there are many factors, like quality, price, support, system integration, features and so on, in this or another order…
About the system I mean number of displays, single or double AHRS, integrated radio and/or transponder, integrated GPS and ADS-B, integrated auto-pilot, etc.
About brand, you know…
But if you were to choose now which EFIS brand and system to put in your RV-10, what would you choose?
(I know it depends on how much $ you can spend, but just wondering what is the current situation)
Regards
Carlos
Este e-mail foi enviado a partir de um computador sem vírus protegido pela Avast.
www.avast.com
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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rene(at)felker.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:05 am Post subject: Choosing an EFIS system and brand |
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I agree with others…..all answers are tainted by what we have already chosen. Stein built my panel many years ago and I went with GRT…..
I love the GRT and have upgraded my screens since I first flew back in 2008.
One of my design goals was to distribute the ”processing” to avoid single point hardware and SOFTWARE failures. So as much as the one box does everything approach looks like the best solution, I would still worry about a single point failure…..what do you have left.
So my system is currently
2 screen GRT system (6.5 in HX)
1 GRT sport
Garmin 430w
Trutrak Autopilot
The auto pilot can be commanded from the Garmin, 2 screen GRT, or Sport. The sport has its own GPS and ADHRS….true fully mission capable backup.
The trutrak autopilot is great….
Just my opinion with no real experience with other systems.
I think it is a GREAT idea to call Stein and work through your requirements. Over the years he has helped me greatly. Just to put in a plug…….he also sells bits and pieces you will need via his web site. (steinair.com)
Rene'
801-721-6080
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stein Bruch
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 8:30 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Choosing an EFIS system and brand
Oh Carlos – what a great question to which there is literally no single answer! If you get a chance and can give me a shout, we can chat and figure out some of the things that are specific to you that’ll make the decision easier….things like flight mission, experience, budget, timeline, so on and so forth.
What much of it comes down to anymore is “red car or blue car” or “Toyota vs. Honda”. What you’ll get is most people think their child is the prettiest, and most people will vehemently defend their choice (good or bad), which is a good thing but not entirely helpful for neophytes.
What I will tell you from the perspective of selling more of these than pretty much anyone else is that 99% of EFIS sales in the RV-10 are focused on Dynon and Garmin. Both are practically the same price, offer very similar functionality, a similar sizes. Other options are still available, but the reality is that Dynon and Garmin have solidified the horse race as two excellent choices. The others aren’t necessarily bad – we’re just talking different levels of good here, but both Dynon and Garmin obviously are putting a whole lot of energy behind continued development, support and functionality growth.
Just my 2 cents as usual!
Cheers,
Stein
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Carlos Trigo
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 7:23 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Choosing an EFIS system and brand
Guys
I would like to hear your opinions about the EFIS systems and brands which are NOW in the market for an RV-10.
Of course there are many factors, like quality, price, support, system integration, features and so on, in this or another order…
About the system I mean number of displays, single or double AHRS, integrated radio and/or transponder, integrated GPS and ADS-B, integrated auto-pilot, etc.
About brand, you know…
But if you were to choose now which EFIS brand and system to put in your RV-10, what would you choose?
(I know it depends on how much $ you can spend, but just wondering what is the current situation)
Regards
Carlos
Este e-mail foi enviado a partir de um computador sem vírus protegido pela Avast.
www.avast.com
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:30 am Post subject: Choosing an EFIS system and brand |
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Carlos,
All good comments. Some additional thoughts:
The three major players are Dynon, Garmin (the experimental side only!), and Grand Rapids. These are the companies that have established solid foundations for their business so you have some confidence they will be around for the long run. I did not list Advanced as they are now owned by Dynon. Even though Dynon sells and supports the Advanced line I don't see how they can support two such similar products for such a small market. In other words I expect the Advance line to be phased out at some point.
For system elements, this is 100% dependent on your mission. If you are flying IFR then you should have:
- Two 10" displays with integrated traffic and weather displays (ADS-B in and TIS)
- Two ADHARS modules (and a system that automatically compares the modules to detect faults)
- Mode S transponder with ADS-B out capability
- Two axis autopilot
A lot of problems are solved if you go with one vendor for everything.
| Quote: | From this you can do the apples to bananas comparisons. Do three full system cost calculations then decide which provides you the best capability/cost value. Do not ignore the total cost of ownership (Garmin flat rate charges, Garmin database subscriptions compared to Dynon's free for life, etc).
|
Let us know what decision you make and why - this is the fastest moving element of the experimental market and new views are always worth the time to review.
Carl
Full Dynon SkyView install (dual 10" displays, transponder, radio, ADS-B in/out, Autopilot)
--
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:44 am Post subject: Choosing an EFIS system and brand |
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Definitely just call Stein and work through the decision process with
him. Also, actually BUY your system from him. As some people
are finding out with the RV-14, he's got the right in's for
backend support and can accomplish things other vendors can't.
So when you need something later, you'll have him as a resource.
But it's a two way street...be nice to your vendor and they
will bend over backwards for you. He's been the best vendor
that came through for many many customers left hanging
in the past.
Tim
On 1/27/2016 10:02 AM, Rene wrote:
| Quote: | I agree with others…..all answers are tainted by what we have already
chosen. Stein built my panel many years ago and I went with GRT…..
I love the GRT and have upgraded my screens since I first flew back in 2008.
One of my design goals was to distribute the ”processing” to avoid
single point hardware and SOFTWARE failures. So as much as the one box
does everything approach looks like the best solution, I would still
worry about a single point failure…..what do you have left.
So my system is currently
2 screen GRT system (6.5 in HX)
1 GRT sport
Garmin 430w
Trutrak Autopilot
The auto pilot can be commanded from the Garmin, 2 screen GRT, or
Sport. The sport has its own GPS and ADHRS….true fully mission capable
backup.
The trutrak autopilot is great….
Just my opinion with no real experience with other systems.
I think it is a GREAT idea to call Stein and work through your
requirements. Over the years he has helped me greatly. Just to put in a
plug…….he also sells bits and pieces you will need via his web site.
(steinair.com)
Rene'
801-721-6080
|
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Bob Turner
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:05 am Post subject: Re: Choosing an EFIS system and brand |
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I'm with Rene on this one - without really knowing what the software is doing, I fear a single failure freezing everything. So I have a pair of GRTs; a Dynon D6 backup which is not connected to anything else; Trio Pro autopilot which can stand alone or run thru the GRTs; Garmin 420W and SL-30 so nav functions are not all in one box. It does all integrate well thru the GRT system but can stand alone if need be. Just my two cents.
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Bob Turner
RV-10 QB |
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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:30 pm Post subject: Choosing an EFIS system and brand |
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While Stein is a superb vendor, you pay a premium for the service.
I'm troubled that Van's does not even provide the aluminum panel blanks in the RV-14 kits. They say to "just call Stein, he will make your panel". While not for everyone, doing your own panel provides a lot of insight into how the stuff all works. For the new EFIS systems like Dynon the simplicity of a network centric architecture makes life a lot easier than the legacy analog days. Add to that the high probability that you will want to change something after a year or two and you have more incentive to do the panel yourself.
Then again, some people just don't like wires....
Carl
--
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flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:58 pm Post subject: Choosing an EFIS system and brand |
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Good comments Carl.
I wired my whole plane ... because I can. And I have the proper tools.
The crimpers can be pricey but cheap crimpers will bite you down the road.
I bought most of my connectors and wire from Stein because it was
convenient and he had the proper aviation stuff. Saved me time looking
for stuff a few $$ cheaper on the 'net. As Carl said .... if you wire
your own you will be able to save a lot of head-scratching when
something gives you problems. Make a schematic of your work. I used
Express PCB ... there are two parts, the schematic and the PC board
layout which you don't need. http://www.expresspcb.com/expresssch ....
and scroll down to the zip file download.
Linn
On 1/27/2016 5:25 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
[quote]
While Stein is a superb vendor, you pay a premium for the service.
I'm troubled that Van's does not even provide the aluminum panel blanks in the RV-14 kits. They say to "just call Stein, he will make your panel". While not for everyone, doing your own panel provides a lot of insight into how the stuff all works. For the new EFIS systems like Dynon the simplicity of a network centric architecture makes life a lot easier than the legacy analog days. Add to that the high probability that you will want to change something after a year or two and you have more incentive to do the panel yourself.
Then again, some people just don't like wires....
Carl
--
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jdriggs49(at)msn.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:21 pm Post subject: Choosing an EFIS system and brand |
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I went with GRT HXrs the second time around. My hanger mate has AFS. He says that the GRT has better resolution (he is right on that account). Both of them are first rate. I bought all my stuff thru Steinair. It was cheaper than from the factory and they also do customer support par excellant!!
Sent from my iPad
[quote] On Jan 27, 2016, at 11:09 AM, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> wrote:
Carlos,
All good comments. Some additional thoughts:
The three major players are Dynon, Garmin (the experimental side only!), and Grand Rapids. These are the companies that have established solid foundations for their business so you have some confidence they will be around for the long run. I did not list Advanced as they are now owned by Dynon. Even though Dynon sells and supports the Advanced line I don't see how they can support two such similar products for such a small market. In other words I expect the Advance line to be phased out at some point.
For system elements, this is 100% dependent on your mission. If you are flying IFR then you should have:
- Two 10" displays with integrated traffic and weather displays (ADS-B in and TIS)
- Two ADHARS modules (and a system that automatically compares the modules to detect faults)
- Mode S transponder with ADS-B out capability
- Two axis autopilot
A lot of problems are solved if you go with one vendor for everything.
> From this you can do the apples to bananas comparisons. Do three full system cost calculations then decide which provides you the best capability/cost value. Do not ignore the total cost of ownership (Garmin flat rate charges, Garmin database subscriptions compared to Dynon's free for life, etc).
Let us know what decision you make and why - this is the fastest moving element of the experimental market and new views are always worth the time to review.
Carl
Full Dynon SkyView install (dual 10" displays, transponder, radio, ADS-B in/out, Autopilot)
--
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Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:25 am Post subject: Choosing an EFIS system and brand |
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Early on I worked with the excellent Mr. Stein but in the end I decided
to trade off the cost of a pro job for DIY fun and some surplus $$.
Understand that I'm a QB guy all the way but the only aspect of the
build that wasn't totally new to me was wiring though it turned out to
be just as much a learning curve as everything else.
The thing that GREATLY eased the avionics wiring task was use of the
Approach Fast Stack Hub. Instead of trying to integrate various
harnesses and pigtails into a solid installation, I was able to tell Tim
Haas at Fast Stack the products I was using and he was able to talk me
through how I wanted them connected (many options) and then provided a
hub and a complete set of cables. The hub is a hardware-only device that
is cabled to each avionics unit. It is customized so that each
connection is made inside of the hub. The setup is also fully documented.
I found that Tim knew much more about all the connectivity options than
I will ever know. Later when a device was added or upgraded, he was
immediately able to send the correct cables at a reasonable cost and
installation was just a plug in operation.
If your panel is a DIY, I suggest you consider this product.
(3) GRT HX, G430w, SL30, GTX327, PMA9000EX, Trutrak, NavWorx ADS-B
Bill "I think I bought enough Stein stuff to qualify as a customer" Watson
On 1/27/2016 5:54 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
[quote]
Good comments Carl.
I wired my whole plane ... because I can. And I have the proper
tools. The crimpers can be pricey but cheap crimpers will bite you
down the road.
I bought most of my connectors and wire from Stein because it was
convenient and he had the proper aviation stuff. Saved me time
looking for stuff a few $$ cheaper on the 'net. As Carl said .... if
you wire your own you will be able to save a lot of head-scratching
when something gives you problems. Make a schematic of your work. I
used Express PCB ... there are two parts, the schematic and the PC
board layout which you don't need.
http://www.expresspcb.com/expresssch .... and scroll down to the zip
file download.
Linn
On 1/27/2016 5:25 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>
> <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net>
>
> While Stein is a superb vendor, you pay a premium for the service.
>
> I'm troubled that Van's does not even provide the aluminum panel
> blanks in the RV-14 kits. They say to "just call Stein, he will make
> your panel". While not for everyone, doing your own panel provides a
> lot of insight into how the stuff all works. For the new EFIS
> systems like Dynon the simplicity of a network centric architecture
> makes life a lot easier than the legacy analog days. Add to that the
> high probability that you will want to change something after a year
> or two and you have more incentive to do the panel yourself.
>
> Then again, some people just don't like wires....
>
> Carl
>
> --
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:41 am Post subject: Choosing an EFIS system and brand |
|
|
Just to clarify, I meant to actually research and learn and
explore with Stein, and then buy from Stein....but the "wired by
SteinAir" is the big optional part. I wired my -10 and I wired
my -14, and I'm glad for it. But just understand that laying
out a complete panel and picking out the equipment and
getting all the *knowledge* does impose a "cost" on the vendor,
so make it a 2 way street with Stein or whatever vendor you
go with, and stick with that vendor through the whole process.
It would not be fair to have someone invest many hours of time,
for no return...all that does is increase cost for all customers.
So pick your vendor, buy your gear from them, and they will
be happy to share in helping make the install a success.
Tim
On 1/28/2016 11:15 AM, Bill Watson wrote:
| Quote: |
Early on I worked with the excellent Mr. Stein but in the end I decided
to trade off the cost of a pro job for DIY fun and some surplus $$.
Understand that I'm a QB guy all the way but the only aspect of the
build that wasn't totally new to me was wiring though it turned out to
be just as much a learning curve as everything else.
The thing that GREATLY eased the avionics wiring task was use of the
Approach Fast Stack Hub. Instead of trying to integrate various
harnesses and pigtails into a solid installation, I was able to tell Tim
Haas at Fast Stack the products I was using and he was able to talk me
through how I wanted them connected (many options) and then provided a
hub and a complete set of cables. The hub is a hardware-only device that
is cabled to each avionics unit. It is customized so that each
connection is made inside of the hub. The setup is also fully documented.
I found that Tim knew much more about all the connectivity options than
I will ever know. Later when a device was added or upgraded, he was
immediately able to send the correct cables at a reasonable cost and
installation was just a plug in operation.
If your panel is a DIY, I suggest you consider this product.
(3) GRT HX, G430w, SL30, GTX327, PMA9000EX, Trutrak, NavWorx ADS-B
Bill "I think I bought enough Stein stuff to qualify as a customer" Watson
On 1/27/2016 5:54 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
>
>
> Good comments Carl.
> I wired my whole plane ... because I can. And I have the proper
> tools. The crimpers can be pricey but cheap crimpers will bite you
> down the road.
>
> I bought most of my connectors and wire from Stein because it was
> convenient and he had the proper aviation stuff. Saved me time
> looking for stuff a few $$ cheaper on the 'net. As Carl said .... if
> you wire your own you will be able to save a lot of head-scratching
> when something gives you problems. Make a schematic of your work. I
> used Express PCB ... there are two parts, the schematic and the PC
> board layout which you don't need.
> http://www.expresspcb.com/expresssch .... and scroll down to the zip
> file download.
> Linn
>
> On 1/27/2016 5:25 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>>
>> <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net>
>>
>> While Stein is a superb vendor, you pay a premium for the service.
>>
>> I'm troubled that Van's does not even provide the aluminum panel
>> blanks in the RV-14 kits. They say to "just call Stein, he will make
>> your panel". While not for everyone, doing your own panel provides a
>> lot of insight into how the stuff all works. For the new EFIS
>> systems like Dynon the simplicity of a network centric architecture
>> makes life a lot easier than the legacy analog days. Add to that the
>> high probability that you will want to change something after a year
>> or two and you have more incentive to do the panel yourself.
>>
>> Then again, some people just don't like wires....
>>
>> Carl
>>
|
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stein(at)steinair.com
Guest
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stein(at)steinair.com
Guest
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jeff(at)westcottpress.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:35 am Post subject: Choosing an EFIS system and brand |
|
|
I keep wanting to push the "like" button on what Tim posts... just can't seem to find it.
Jeff Carpenter
Do Not Archive
On Jan 28, 2016, at 10:38 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)>
Just to clarify, I meant to actually research and learn and
explore with Stein, and then buy from Stein....but the "wired by
SteinAir" is the big optional part. I wired my -10 and I wired
my -14, and I'm glad for it. But just understand that laying
out a complete panel and picking out the equipment and
getting all the *knowledge* does impose a "cost" on the vendor,
so make it a 2 way street with Stein or whatever vendor you
go with, and stick with that vendor through the whole process.
It would not be fair to have someone invest many hours of time,
for no return...all that does is increase cost for all customers.
So pick your vendor, buy your gear from them, and they will
be happy to share in helping make the install a success.
Tim
On 1/28/2016 11:15 AM, Bill Watson wrote:
[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com (Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com)>
Early on I worked with the excellent Mr. Stein but in the end I decided
to trade off the cost of a pro job for DIY fun and some surplus $$.
Understand that I'm a QB guy all the way but the only aspect of the
build that wasn't totally new to me was wiring though it turned out to
be just as much a learning curve as everything else.
The thing that GREATLY eased the avionics wiring task was use of the
Approach Fast Stack Hub. Instead of trying to integrate various
harnesses and pigtails into a solid installation, I was able to tell Tim
Haas at Fast Stack the products I was using and he was able to talk me
through how I wanted them connected (many options) and then provided a
hub and a complete set of cables. The hub is a hardware-only device that
is cabled to each avionics unit. It is customized so that each
connection is made inside of the hub. The setup is also fully documented.
I found that Tim knew much more about all the connectivity options than
I will ever know. Later when a device was added or upgraded, he was
immediately able to send the correct cables at a reasonable cost and
installation was just a plug in operation.
If your panel is a DIY, I suggest you consider this product.
(3) GRT HX, G430w, SL30, GTX327, PMA9000EX, Trutrak, NavWorx ADS-B
Bill "I think I bought enough Stein stuff to qualify as a customer" Watson
On 1/27/2016 5:54 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
| Quote: | Good comments Carl.
|
| Quote: | I wired my whole plane ... because I can. And I have the proper
|
| Quote: | tools. The crimpers can be pricey but cheap crimpers will bite you
|
| Quote: | I bought most of my connectors and wire from Stein because it was
|
| Quote: | convenient and he had the proper aviation stuff. Saved me time
|
| Quote: | looking for stuff a few $$ cheaper on the 'net. As Carl said .... if
|
| Quote: | you wire your own you will be able to save a lot of head-scratching
|
| Quote: | when something gives you problems. Make a schematic of your work. I
|
| Quote: | used Express PCB ... there are two parts, the schematic and the PC
|
| Quote: | board layout which you don't need.
|
| Quote: | On 1/27/2016 5:25 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
|
| Quote: | | Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich"
|
|
| Quote: | | Quote: | While Stein is a superb vendor, you pay a premium for the service.
|
|
| Quote: | | Quote: | I'm troubled that Van's does not even provide the aluminum panel
|
|
| Quote: | | Quote: | blanks in the RV-14 kits. They say to "just call Stein, he will make
|
|
| Quote: | | Quote: | your panel". While not for everyone, doing your own panel provides a
|
|
| Quote: | | Quote: | lot of insight into how the stuff all works. For the new EFIS
|
|
| Quote: | | Quote: | systems like Dynon the simplicity of a network centric architecture
|
|
| Quote: | | Quote: | makes life a lot easier than the legacy analog days. Add to that the
|
|
| Quote: | | Quote: | high probability that you will want to change something after a year
|
|
| Quote: | | Quote: | or two and you have more incentive to do the panel yourself.
|
|
| Quote: | | Quote: | Then again, some people just don't like wires....
|
|
[quote]
Westcott Press
1121 Isabel Street
Burbank, CA 91506
jeff(at)westcottpress.com (jeff(at)westcottpress.com)
818-861-7300
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rene(at)felker.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:37 am Post subject: Choosing an EFIS system and brand |
|
|
Sorry, but I cannot help but chime in one more time.
I run an engineering company and do all types of engineering as a service. That being said, I had Stein build my panel and the price he charged was far from premium. I would go out of business charging what he did (does ?).
BUT, even more important than that, the followup support has been fantastic even 7 years after he did the work.
My background as an Air Force electronics technician (back in the days where everything was not plug and play) means I have all the knowledge needed to wire a panel and figure it all out. Although I have done all my own mods and additions since I got the first version from Stein, it has always been nice to be able to ask questions and get answers.
I am a very happy customer.................
Rene'
801-721-6080
--
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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:57 am Post subject: Choosing an EFIS system and brand |
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|
Yep - I have had many deliveries from Stein over the years and will continue to do so.
Carl
--
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