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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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 Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:49 am Post subject: Shower of sparks vibrator? |
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Does anyone on the List have a Shower-of-Sparks
vibrator of any style, working or not-working
that I could use to get some measurements?
I'd be pleased to pay shipping both ways . . .
Bob . . .
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ngeorge(at)continentalmot
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:16 am Post subject: Shower of sparks vibrator? |
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Bob – I’ll get one to you…
neal
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2016 7:36 AM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Shower of sparks vibrator?
Does anyone on the List have a Shower-of-Sparks
vibrator of any style, working or not-working
that I could use to get some measurements?
I'd be pleased to pay shipping both ways . . .
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]> <![endif]>
Bob . . .
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:29 pm Post subject: Shower of sparks vibrator? |
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At 08:14 AM 1/29/2016, you wrote:
| Quote: | | Bob – I’ll get one to you… |
That would be very handy . . . I want to do
some bench measurements to better understand
the physics of the system.
Bob . . .
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trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
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| Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:06 am Post subject: Shower of sparks vibrator? |
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Please forgive my ignorance but, what is a “Shower of sparks vibrator”?
CT
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: sábado, 30 de Janeiro de 2016 04:18
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Shower of sparks vibrator?
At 08:14 AM 1/29/2016, you wrote:
Bob – I’ll get one to you…
That would be very handy . . . I want to do
some bench measurements to better understand
the physics of the system.
Bob . . .
Este e-mail foi enviado a partir de um computador sem vírus protegido pela Avast. www.avast.com
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:24 am Post subject: Shower of sparks vibrator? |
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The Shower of Sparks ignition was one solution to the need for creating
a strong spark for starting, when engine rotation is too slow for the
magneto to generate strong sparks from points opening and closing.
The other common system is an impulse coupling.
The Shower of Sparks uses the battery DC voltage and a vibrator to
create AC voltage, which is used through the magneto coil to produce
sparks. I'm sure you can find a lot more with internet search.
On 1/30/2016 5:04 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote:
| Quote: | Please forgive my ignorance but, what is a “Shower of sparks vibrator”?
CT
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Kelly McMullen
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:41 am Post subject: Shower of sparks vibrator? |
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At 06:04 AM 1/30/2016, you wrote:
| Quote: | Please forgive my ignorance but, what is a “Shower of sparks vibrator”?
CT
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Its a component of probably the finest enhancement
to magneto ignition systems ever developed . . .
http://tinyurl.com/gn584wt
in particular, this article published on AeroElectric.com
about 20 years ago has been updated with two new wiring
diagrams
http://tinyurl.com/cmoozj
Bob . . .
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bob.verwey(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:59 am Post subject: Shower of sparks vibrator? |
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...a data point....
I too, am new to this device, having previously only indulged in the inpulse coupled mags.
I have the +12v supply to the SOS connected from the starter solenoid energiser wire. At first I had my wiring with the twin toggle switches mixed up, and was trouble shooting the system, and discovered that during cranking the voltage to the SOS dropped to about 8.5v.
I then checked for resistance in the circuits but found none.
Despite what I perceive to be an excessive voltage drop, the engine fires right up now without any problem with the mags wired correctly.
This is an IO 470, so it needs a happy battery to swing the prop. No problems there, but I was suprised by the voltage drop. I did not measure it at the starter terminal though ?
On 30 January 2016 at 15:39, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | At 06:04 AM 1/30/2016, you wrote:
| Quote: | Please forgive my ignorance but, what is a “Shower of sparks vibrator�
Â
CT
 |
 Its a component of probably the finest enhancement
 to magneto ignition systems ever developed . . .
http://tinyurl.com/gn584wt
 in particular, this article published on AeroElectric.com
 about 20 years ago has been updated with two new wiring
 diagrams
http://tinyurl.com/cmoozj
 Bob . . .
|
--
Best...Bob Verwey
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:40 am Post subject: Shower of sparks vibrator? |
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Ideally you want to be able to turn on power to the vibrator before the
engine cranks, both to know it is working (audible) and to be able to
hand prop in emergency. Some do it with toggle switch, or most ignition
switches of the push to start variety have power to vibrator when turned
full right, then you push to engage starter. With vibrator powered only
when starter is cranking, you can't hear whether it is working or not.
On 2/9/2016 2:57 AM, Bob Verwey wrote:
| Quote: | ...a data point....
I too, am new to this device, having previously only indulged in the
inpulse coupled mags.
I have the +12v supply to the SOS connected from the starter solenoid
energiser wire. At first I had my wiring with the twin toggle switches
mixed up, and was trouble shooting the system, and discovered that
during cranking the voltage to the SOS dropped to about 8.5v.
I then checked for resistance in the circuits but found none.
Despite what I perceive to be an excessive voltage drop, the engine
fires right up now without any problem with the mags wired correctly.
This is an IO 470, so it needs a happy battery to swing the prop. No
problems there, but I was suprised by the voltage drop. I did not
measure it at the starter terminal though ?
On 30 January 2016 at 15:39, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
<nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com <mailto:nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>>
wrote:
At 06:04 AM 1/30/2016, you wrote:
> Please forgive my ignorance but, what is a “Shower of sparks
> vibrator�
>
> CT
Its a component of probably the finest enhancement
to magneto ignition systems ever developed . . .
http://tinyurl.com/gn584wt
in particular, this article published on AeroElectric.com
about 20 years ago has been updated with two new wiring
diagrams
http://tinyurl.com/cmoozj
__
__ Bob . . .
--
Best...
Bob Verwey
|
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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD |
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:52 am Post subject: Shower of sparks vibrator? |
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At 03:57 AM 2/9/2016, you wrote:
| Quote: | ...a data point....
I too, am new to this device, having previously only indulged in the inpulse coupled mags.
I have the +12v supply to the SOS connected from the starter solenoid energiser wire. At first I had my wiring with the twin toggle switches mixed up, and was trouble shooting the system, and discovered that during cranking the voltage to the SOS dropped to about 8.5v. |
Your battery is soggy, you've got
excessive wire drops, or a combination
of both.
The legacy battery performance test calls
for applying a load that pulls the battery
down to 9.0v at the terminals . . . then
hold that load for 15 seconds.
At the end of 15 seconds, read the ammeter.
This number represents your 'worst case'
cranking ability for that battery in its
present condition and temperature.
A PC680, or most of the 18 a.h. class
batteries will produced a load-test
number in excess of 500A . . . perhaps
as much as 750A.
Your engine probalby needs no more than
250A at nice flying weather temperatures
so a voltage measurement below 9v gives
rise to questions worth running to
ground.
| Quote: | I then checked for resistance in the circuits but found none.
Despite what I perceive to be an excessive voltage drop, the engine fires right up now without any problem with the mags wired correctly. |
A legacy, electro-mechanical SOS vibrator
should perform down to 8v. After all,
its coil resistance is on the order of
0.5 ohms . . . the magneto coil in series
with is less. So even at low voltages
you observer, the correctly wired SOS
vibrator should buzz away and get
the engine lit off.
| Quote: | | This is an IO 470, so it needs a happy battery to swing the prop. No problems there, but I was suprised by the voltage drop. I did not measure it at the starter terminal though ? |
Voltages during cranking are a difficult
number to capture. This is due to the
large swings in starter current draw
as the engine moves through compression
strokes. It's impossible to get meaningful
numbers with a digital voltmeter . . .
problematic with an analog meter.
One of PITS (pie in the sky) projects
I've been mulling over is a cranking
system analysis instrument. It would
have a 2 line, 16 character display
and a micro-controller that gathers
data throughout several blade passages
of a cranking operation and then display
average and worst case voltage values
for battery, starter, and selected
locations about the engine cranking
loop.
Such a device would allow a mechanic
to evaluate system performance and
spot particular items of interest
when it comes to allocating battery
resources during the cranking op.
In then mean time, the legacy 15-second
load test on your battery can tell you
a lot about its stand-alone condition.
Bob . . .
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