Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Choosing an EFIS system (was "and brand")

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Choosing an EFIS system (was "and brand")

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV10-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:19 pm Post subject: Choosing an EFIS system (was "and brand")

Fowkes

 

As the initiator of this thread, it’s time to thank everybody who responded (perhaps except to those who deviated from the central issue… L).

 

Now, we’ve beaten to death the “Brand” question: it seems it should be Garmin or Dynon, closely followed by GRT.

 

Now, on the “System” question, almost nobody responded to this.

I know it all depends on the mission, the available space, the available $$, but 

 

What is the ideal system for a cross country RV-10?

2 or 3 screens?

Touch or buttons?

1 or 2 ADHARS?

Integrated comm radio?

Integrated Xpdr?

ADS-B?

 

I appreciate your views on this issues

 

Carlos  

 

 

 

 

--

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:42 pm Post subject: Choosing an EFIS system (was "and brand")

Responding below. 



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

352-427-0285

jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)

Sent from my iPad



On Feb 1, 2016, at 8:48 AM, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    <![endif]-->   <![endif]-->

Fowkes

 

As the initiator of this thread, itâ€™s time to thank everybody who responded (perhaps except to those who deviated from the central issueâ€¦ L).

 

Now, weâ€™ve beaten to death the â€œBrandâ€ question: it seems it should be Garmin or Dynon, closely followed by GRT.

 

Now, on the â€œSystemâ€ question, almost nobody responded to this.

I know it all depends on the mission, the available space, the available $$, but 

 

What is the ideal system for a cross country RV-10?

2 or 3 screens?



	
The 2nd screen is not required, but really nice to have. The 3rd is nothing but a right seat screen. Absolutely not needed.

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Touch or buttons?



	
Both (narrows down the playing field significantly  ). In all seriousness, don't even consider the G3X non-touch. Dynon touch is only $395 more and well worth it. Does GRT have touch yet?

 	  Quote: 	
		  



1 or 2 ADHARS?



	
2

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Integrated comm radio?



	
Really nice but not required. 

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Integrated Xpdr?



	
Nice but not required. 

 	  Quote: 	
		  



ADS-B?



	
Absolutely, both in and out. 

[quote]



 

I appreciate your views on this issues

 

Carlos  

 

 

 

 

--

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:45 pm Post subject: Choosing an EFIS system (was "and brand")

How many backups are enough? Will you have pilot only in left seat, or 

might it be flown from right seat? Do you want PFD in front of both 

seats and a map/MFD in the middle? What do you want for PFD 

backup...steam gauges, second PFD with its own ADAHRS?

You have to decide layout for how you and anyone else who might fly it 

want. If you want to go into Class B or C or above 10,000 ft you need 

ADS-B out. If you are going cross country you want ADS-B -In  for 

weather and traffic. Do you want IFR GPS capability, or are you content 

to use VOR/ILS for legal IFR navigation?

I chose 2 Dynon 10" screens. I might upgrade one to touch. I have Dynon 

D1 mini-EFIS for tie-breaker and separate software not common to Skyview 

system. I have GTN-650 for legal GPS, and SL 30 for second nav-com. If I 

were buying today I would prefer the Avidyne IFD540.

With the Dynon I have VFR GPS, 2 ADAHRS, 2 backup batteries, their 

1090ES transponder and ADSB-In receiver, along with their heated 

pitot/AOA probe. I purchased the Seattle Avionics chart package to have 

sectionals, enroute and approach charts on screen. Most of my flights 

will have two pilots on board, so I bought AeroSport symmetrical panel 

to have most everything available and in front of both seats.



On 2/1/2016 6:48 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote:

[quote] Fowkes



 As the initiator of this thread, it’s time to thank everybody who

 responded (perhaps except to those who deviated from the central issue… L).



 Now, we’ve beaten to death the “Brand” question: it seems it should be

 Garmin or Dynon, closely followed by GRT.



 Now, on the “System” question, almost nobody responded to this.



 I know it all depends on the mission, the available space, the available

 $$, but



 What is the ideal system for a cross country RV-10?



 2 or 3 screens?



 Touch or buttons?



 1 or 2 ADHARS?



 Integrated comm radio?



 Integrated Xpdr?



 ADS-B?



 I appreciate your views on this issues



 Carlos



 --

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

stein(at)steinair.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:23 pm Post subject: Choosing an EFIS system (was "and brand")

Hi Carlos,

 

Again you’ll get lots of opinions…but I’ll share my 2 cents as usual!

 

For 2 or 3 screens I’d say a lot depends on who is often flying in the right seat.  If you often have a “pilot type” or someone who enjoys seeing what is going on, or if you fly from the right seat than 2 or 3 screen is a very nice luxury. It also depends on whether or not you want to have 2 screens directly in front of the pilot or split them Left/Right.  I’d say in an RV-10 2 screens is almost a must, it’s how you position them that is a very personal thing.  The 3rd screen can be a nice central MFD type display for autopilot controls, engine info, vertical power info, flight planning, etc.., but again a very personal thing.

 

Touch or buttons at this point is hardly a deciding factor in my opinion.  That whole debate is almost a marketing exercise, as a well-designed touch system still has dedicated knobs and buttons for critical functions (despite what various marketing hypes say), so in the end that in itself shouldn’t be a major factor in the decision making process in my opinion.  The world is moving to touchscreens whether we like the idea or not, and sometimes a poorly designed touch interface or menu structure with tons of buttons can be just as distracting as a simplified structure with less buttons….but both are perfectly usable in most any condition. The fact of the matter is that if it’s so bumpy that a touch is unusable, buttons will also be difficult.

 

The multiple ADAHRS thing also depends much on your mission and equipment.  Do not confuse redundancy with reliability.  Multiple ADAHRS systems are fantastic redundancy, but don’t necessarily add to overall reliability.

 

Integrated comm radios are also something that has pretty much become standard no matter which system you buy so again, I wouldn’t place that as much of a deciding factor. Both Dynon & Garmin do a pretty nice job with their radio interfaces and both have their own “pro’s”.

 

The integrated transponder is pretty much standard with all of the systems and both are good…no deciding factor there.

 

ADS-B is also pretty much standard with all systems, so again not a deciding factor in my opinion.

 

So in the end I’d pick the system that you like to look at and play with….and you can be pretty assured you’ll love whichever one you choose.

 

Cheers,

Stein

 

 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Trigo

Sent: Monday, February 01, 2016 7:49 AM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: Choosing an EFIS system (was "and brand")

 

Fowkes

 

As the initiator of this thread, it’s time to thank everybody who responded (perhaps except to those who deviated from the central issue… L).

 

Now, we’ve beaten to death the “Brand” question: it seems it should be Garmin or Dynon, closely followed by GRT.

 

Now, on the “System” question, almost nobody responded to this.

I know it all depends on the mission, the available space, the available $$, but 

 

What is the ideal system for a cross country RV-10?

2 or 3 screens?

Touch or buttons?

1 or 2 ADHARS?

Integrated comm radio?

Integrated Xpdr?

ADS-B?

 

I appreciate your views on this issues

 

Carlos  

 

 

 

 

--

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Choosing an EFIS system (was

 	  trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt wrote: 	
		  Fowkes

 

As the initiator of this thread, itâ€™s time to thank everybody who responded (perhaps except to those who deviated from the central issueâ€¦ L).

 

Now, weâ€™ve beaten to death the â€œBrandâ€ question: it seems it should be Garmin or Dynon, closely followed by GRT.

 

Now, on the â€œSystemâ€ question, almost nobody responded to this.

I know it all depends on the mission, the available space, the available $$, but 

 

What is the ideal system for a cross country RV-10?

2 or 3 screens?

Touch or buttons?

1 or 2 ADHARS?

Integrated comm radio?

Integrated Xpdr?

ADS-B?

 

I appreciate your views on this issues

 

Carlosï¿½ 

 

 

 

 

-- 	




My personal biases and opinions:

First of all, did you open the hood and look inside the boxes? Most people do not. For example, the Dynon uses pitot data to obtain the attitude solution. If it auto-detects pitot failure (notice the 'if') it will use gps data instead. But if you lose both you lose your attitude indicator. Odds are low, but are you happy with that? GRT will still show attitude in this circumstance; Garmin I don't know.



Other stuff:

I fear single point failures taking out everything, so my philosophy is to have boxes that will work together but can stand alone.

3 attitude sources - GRT, TRIO, Dynon D6 - all independent.

Battery back up

My touch screen experience is limited to the GTN series. I dislike it intensely, even in smooth air I hit the wrong thing! But maybe I just need more practice.

But I like knobs or buttons.

Agree with others - 2 screens are good, a third is only useful for a right seat person.

ADSB. For x/c get ADSB-in now, for the wx. You will want ADSB-out by 2020 because the -10 flies well above 10,000', so it can be now or later. But either way think about it now, because it feeds back into your choices. e.g., there are a number of options that will display on GRT equipment; with Dynon or Garmin you have fewer, and, more expensive choices. If buying all new avionics as you are, with an ifr gps navigator, the mode S-ES route may be less expensive than UAT. Look carefully at the numbers and trade offs.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

EdKranz

Joined: 29 Dec 2010
Posts: 132
Location: Hastings, MN

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:06 pm Post subject: Choosing an EFIS system (was "and brand")

My 10 has 3 screens. The right screen is for the co-pilot. It's out of reach of the pilot for standard practical operation. I installed it because I want my son and wife to be able to practice flying with instrumentation in front of them, and also be able to check out the map/weather/traffic/AOPA airport directory without impacting my use of the PFD and MFD.



With the G3X Touch, I think it would be possible to fly with a single in front of the pilot, but as I'm currently getting my instrument rating, it's FANTASTIC to have the PFD full screen with upcoming waypoints in the inset window, and the MFD split screen between the approach plate on the left and moving map on the right. I will also split the PFD to pull up info like the airport information page, or the nearest frequencies page.

The functionality of this setup is incredible, even coming from a G1000 182!

So my OPINION is that VFR, 1 screen could get you by. IFR, I think 2 screens is far more practical. 3 screens is just fun, or if you want to have someone who wants to "pilot" from the right seat from time to time.

_________________
Ed Kranz
RV10
Finishing
www.edandcolleen.com

arplnplt(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:39 pm Post subject: Choosing an EFIS system (was "and brand")

I have a G900X from Stein installed in 2011 and have not looked back.  Today I would probably choose a dual screen G3X panel.

That being said, I use an iPad mini with Stratus mounted to the center support bar for sectional and other info.

A third screen is very nice to have and the iPad does that job well.



Dave Leikam

N89DA

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Feb 2, 2016, at 5:03 PM, Ed Kranz <ed.kranz(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 My 10 has 3 screens. The right screen is for the co-pilot. It's out of reach of the pilot for standard practical operation. I installed it because I want my son and wife to be able to practice flying with instrumentation in front of them, and also be able to check out the map/weather/traffic/AOPA airport directory without impacting my use of the PFD and MFD.

 

 With the G3X Touch, I think it would be possible to fly with a single in front of the pilot, but as I'm currently getting my instrument rating, it's FANTASTIC to have the PFD full screen with upcoming waypoints in the inset window, and the MFD split screen between the approach plate on the left and moving map on the right. I will also split the PFD to pull up info like the airport information page, or the nearest frequencies page.

 

 The functionality of this setup is incredible, even coming from a G1000 182!

 

 So my OPINION is that VFR, 1 screen could get you by. IFR, I think 2 screens is far more practical. 3 screens is just fun, or if you want to have someone who wants to "pilot" from the right seat from time to time.

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:19 pm Post subject: Choosing an EFIS system (was "and brand")

I can see the juices flowing in your CFII's mind as to what items to 

fail on you. Say 2nd screen, GPS and whatever it takes to reduce you to 

one VHF nav, without moving map.



On 2/2/2016 4:03 PM, Ed Kranz wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   My 10 has 3 screens.

 With the G3X Touch, I think it would be possible to fly with a single in

 front of the pilot, but as I'm currently getting my instrument rating,

 it's FANTASTIC to have the PFD full screen with upcoming waypoints in

 the inset window, and the MFD split screen between the approach plate on

 the left and moving map on the right. I will also split the PFD to pull

 up info like the airport information page, or the nearest frequencies page.

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:14 pm Post subject: Choosing an EFIS system (was "and brand")

I did the central 3rd screen thing       combined with a Stein canted center panel so it's turned towards       the pilot.  They are 3 GRT Hx screens and each can do any and all       things but I use the center display as a MFD type.  Looks great,       works well but..... 

       

       ...after flying behind it and with the opportunity to redo - I'd       mount that 3rd screed right up against the pilot screen.  There's       no reason to spread such information out for the pilot.  It looks       better centered and separated, it performs better clustered and       optimally centered for the pilot.  And one big well designed       screen should trump 2.

       

       Bill "personally, I really like the way it looks" Watson

       

       On 2/2/2016 3:19 PM, Stein Bruch wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		                         <![endif]-->   <![endif]-->       .The 3rd           screen can be a nice central MFD type display for autopilot           controls, engine info, vertical power info, flight planning,           etc.., but again a very personal thing.         

          

       

     	
     

      	 	 			 			 		This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com

whodja

Joined: 27 Jan 2014
Posts: 50
Location: Apex NC (near Raleigh)

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:42 am Post subject: Re: Choosing an EFIS system (was

I was dead set on Dynon. Until I had the opportunity to compare them with Garmin side by side. When I visited SteinAir I had many of my questions answered. After I saw the compass/AHRS install for Garmin vs Dynon along with many other features I changed my mind. I would however recommend that you not purchase the GPS until just before you start flying. The warranty starts when you buy it. Stein was extremely helpful and the staff was awesome.



As a pilot by occupation, I feel that the menus and setup for Garmin favor me over the Dynon.



My 2 cents



RV-10 QB Fuse/wings

Empennage complete

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV10-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum