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Essential Bus Switch

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billhuntersemail(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:13 am Post subject: Essential Bus Switch

What would be a good choice for a switch (and vendor) to use for the essential bus? My avionics bus will only have a transponder, ADS-B, GNS-650,and SL-15. 

should this switch be a simple toggle or should it be a Kaliko circuit breaker switch? 

 

THANKS!!!  

Bill Hunter 

 

Bill Hunter 

 +1 408-464-1902

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:17 pm Post subject: Essential Bus Switch

It's more an 'endurance bus' than an 'essential bus'.

 It was designed to conserve energy and used to 

 power devices most useful to sustaining comfortable

 en-route phase of flight.



 I am curious. There are hundreds of thousands of

 light aircraft manufactured and, I presume, successfully

 flown without benefit of protected switches of any

 kind.



 What is so different about the OBAM aviation aircraft,

 the designers, builders and users of these aircraft

 that make protected switches so attractive . . . or

 even a good idea?



 

   Bob . . .

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:37 pm Post subject: Essential Bus Switch

More “Stuff”, more changes, and less ergonomic design and testing.  I know in my airplane I have switches on everything…..I could live without some of them.  But then I would have to use the breaker as a switch if I really needed to turn items off.

 

Rene'

801-721-6080



 

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III

Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 2:17 PM

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Essential Bus Switch

 

It's more an 'endurance bus' than an 'essential bus'.

It was designed to conserve energy and used to 

power devices most useful to sustaining comfortable

en-route phase of flight.



I am curious. There are hundreds of thousands of

light aircraft manufactured and, I presume, successfully

flown without benefit of protected switches of any

kind.



What is so different about the OBAM aviation aircraft,

the designers, builders and users of these aircraft

that make protected switches so attractive . . . or

even a good idea?



  Bob . . .

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:49 am Post subject: Essential Bus Switch

At 01:11 PM 4/7/2016, you wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  What would be a good choice for a switch (and vendor) to use for the essential bus? My avionics bus will only have a transponder, ADS-B, GNS-650,and SL-15.



 should this switch be a simple toggle or should it be a Kaliko circuit breaker switch? 



 THANKS!!! 



 Bill Hunter 



 Bill Hunter 

 +1 408-464-1902 	
 

 

   Bob . . .

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:49 am Post subject: Essential Bus Switch

At 01:11 PM 4/7/2016, you wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  What would be a good choice for a switch (and vendor) to use for the essential bus? My avionics bus will only have a transponder, ADS-B, GNS-650,and SL-15.



 should this switch be a simple toggle or should it be a Kaliko circuit breaker switch? 	


   breaker/switches are expensive, seldom compatible

   with the styling of other switches and generally

   serve no useful purpose in the artfully crafted

   architecture . . . Do your FMEA, under what

   conditions would that breaker be called upon to

   do its job? How to do craft the system such that

   no such condition is likely to occur . . . i.e.

   as reliable as prop bolts? 



 

 

   Bob . . .

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:59 am Post subject: Essential Bus Switch

At 01:11 PM 4/7/2016, you wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  What would be a good choice for a switch (and vendor) to use for the essential bus? My avionics bus will only have a transponder, ADS-B, GNS-650,and SL-15. 	


  You have both an endurance bus -AND- and avionics

  bus?



 

 

   Bob . . .

billhuntersemail(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:21 am Post subject: Essential Bus Switch

 	  Quote: 	
		  You have both an endurance bus -AND- and avionics

 Â bus? 
	


Thanks for helping!  

I do not want to fool with an avionics Master relay and the switch does not have to be a circuit breaker.  

The airplane will have two completely independent electrical systems with the ability to bus tie.  

The pilot side bus will have a dynon SV1000 and Dynon radio.  

The copilot's bus will also have a Dynon SV1000 and the copilot system will also power the Avionics bus that will power only a Garmin G650, Garmin SL 15, Dynon transponder, and a Dynon ADS-B. 

So I need to find a good quality toggle switch that has the capability to power only these five items and none of them use their complete power all of the time.Â   

THANKS AGAIN!!!  

Bill Hunter  On Apr 8, 2016 8:08 AM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		    At 01:11 PM 4/7/2016, you wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  What would be a good choice for a switch (and vendor) to use for the essential bus? My avionics bus will only have a transponder, ADS-B, GNS-650,and SL-15. 	


 Â You have both an endurance bus -AND- and avionics

 Â bus?



 

 

 Â  Bob . . .

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:38 pm Post subject: Essential Bus Switch

At 10:20 AM 4/8/2016, you wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  >You have both an endurance bus -AND- and avionics

 Â bus?



 Thanks for helping! 



 I do not want to fool with an avionics Master relay and the

 switch does not have to be a circuit breaker. 	


   Correct. The AV-master . . . when used . . . is part

   of a bus feeder. It doesn't get  'protected'.



  	  Quote: 	
		  The airplane will have two completely independent electrical systems with the ability to bus tie. 



 The pilot side bus will have a dynon SV1000 and Dynon radio. 



 The copilot's bus will also have a Dynon SV1000 and the copilot system will also power the Avionics bus that will power only a Garmin G650, Garmin SL 15, Dynon transponder, and a Dynon ADS-B.



 So I need to find a good quality toggle switch that has the capability to power only these five items and none of them use their complete power all of the time.Â  	


    ANY toggle switch will carry that current. There

    is no value to be secured by purchasing a 'military',

    'aviation' or otherwise holy-watered switch.



    Assuming that switch is situated in the ONLY source

    of power to the bus . . . then why not power these

    devices from the ENDURANCE bus which classically

    enjoys two feeders?



    The value of an 'avionics bus' was ill-conceived

    from the get-go. Given modern application of DO-160 design

    protocols . . . an avionics bus is totally unnecessary.

    If you have dual, independent main busses with cross-feed

    capability, then 'endurance' bus adds no value.



 See:   http://tinyurl.com/jqgndsx



 

   Bob . . .

billhuntersemail(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:16 pm Post subject: Essential Bus Switch

Thanks Bob for your time!!!

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   If you have dual, independent main busses with cross-feed capability, then 'endurance' bus adds no value.

 
	


The only reason why I want an Avionics bus is to turn off unnecessary electrical loads on the system during starting.  I presume the Garmin 650 and the Dynon ADS-B and transponder are not susceptible to power surge issues during engine start and since I will have two Optima batteries this is all way overkill.

 

The left bus is powered by the SD-20 and it has a Dynon SV-1000 with its own GPS and Dynon radio and the right side bus will be powered by a SD-60 and it will power the Avionics bus with a Garmin 650 (radio and nav). 

 

Here is the anointed military switch I am going with…only $14.00.

 

 http://www.skygeek.com/honeywell-micro-switch-1tl1-3-switch.html

 

 

..

 

THANKS AGAIN!!!

 

Bill  Hunter



 

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III

Sent: Saturday, April 9, 2016 3:36 PM

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Essential Bus Switch

 

At 10:20 AM 4/8/2016, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 	  Quote: 	
		  You have both an endurance bus -AND- and avionics

Â bus?
	




Thanks for helping! 



I do not want to fool with an avionics Master relay and the

switch does not have to be a circuit breaker. 	




  Correct. The AV-master . . . when used . . . is part

  of a bus feeder. It doesn't get  'protected'.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

The airplane will have two completely independent electrical systems with the ability to bus tie. 



The pilot side bus will have a dynon SV1000 and Dynon radio. 



The copilot's bus will also have a Dynon SV1000 and the copilot system will also power the Avionics bus that will power only a Garmin G650, Garmin SL 15, Dynon transponder, and a Dynon ADS-B.



So I need to find a good quality toggle switch that has the capability to power only these five items and none of them use their complete power all of the time.Â  	




   ANY toggle switch will carry that current. There

   is no value to be secured by purchasing a 'military',

   'aviation' or otherwise holy-watered switch.



   Assuming that switch is situated in the ONLY source

   of power to the bus . . . then why not power these

   devices from the ENDURANCE bus which classically

   enjoys two feeders?



   The value of an 'avionics bus' was ill-conceived

   from the get-go. Given modern application of DO-160 design

   protocols . . . an avionics bus is totally unnecessary.

   If you have dual, independent main busses with cross-feed

   capability, then 'endurance' bus adds no value.



See:  http://tinyurl.com/jqgndsx

  Bob . . .

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 4:59 pm Post subject: Essential Bus Switch

-------- Original message --------

From: William Hunter  

Date:04/09/2016  7:15 PM  (GMT-05:00) 

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com 

Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Essential Bus Switch 

Thanks Bob for your time!!!

 	  Quote: 	
		   If you have dual, independent main busses with cross-feed capability, then 'endurance' bus adds no value.

The only reason why I want an Avionics bus is to turn off unnecessary electrical loads on the system during starting.  I presume the Garmin 650 and the Dynon ADS-B and transponder are not susceptible to power surge issues during engine start and since I will have two Optima batteries this is all way overkill.

The left bus is powered by the SD-20 and it has a Dynon SV-1000 with its own GPS and Dynon radio and the right side bus will be powered by a SD-60 and it will power the Avionics bus with a Garmin 650 (radio and nav). 

Here is the anointed military switch I am going withâ€¦only $14.00.

 http://www.skygeek.com/honeywell-micro-switch-1tl1-3-switch.html

..

THANKS AGAIN!!!

Bill  Hunter

You'll cuss yourself for using screw terminals the 1st time you're forced to do electrical work after you're flying. 

Charlie

billhuntersemail(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 5:18 pm Post subject: Essential Bus Switch

I've been cussing myself for starting this project  

Bill Hunter 

 +1 408-464-1902 On Apr 9, 2016 6:06 PM, "Charlie England" <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		  



-------- Original message --------

From: William Hunter  

Date:04/09/2016  7:15 PM  (GMT-05:00) 

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com) 

Subject: RE: Essential Bus S7471149003873957878__MailEndCompose">Thanks Bob for your time!!!

Â 

 	  Quote: 	
		   If you have dual, independent main busses with cross-feed capability, then 'endurance' bus adds no value.

Â 
	


The only reason why I want an Avionics bus is to turn off unnecessary electrical loads on the system during starting.Â  I presume the Garmin 650 and the Dynon ADS-B and transponder are not susceptible to power surge issues during engine start and since I will have two Optima batteries this is all way overkill.

Â 

The left bus is powered by the SD-20 and it has a Dynon SV-1000 with its own GPS and Dynon radio and the right side bus will be powered by a SD-60 and it will power the Avionics bus with a Garmin 650 (radio and nav). 

Â 

Here is the anointed military switch I am going withâ€¦only $14.00.

Â 

 http://www.skygeek.com/honeywell-micro-switch-1tl1-3-switch.html

Â 

Â 

..

Â 

THANKS AGAIN!!!

Â 

BillÂ  Hunter



Â 

You'll cuss yourself for using screw terminals the 1st time you're forced to do electrical work after you're flying. 

Charlie

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 6:59 am Post subject: Essential Bus Switch

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 The only reason why I want an Avionics bus is to turn off unnecessary electrical loads on the system during starting.  I presume the Garmin 650 and the Dynon ADS-B and transponder are not susceptible to power surge issues during engine start and since I will have two Optima batteries this is all way overkill. 	


     There are no 'surges' during engine cranking . . .

     if your battery(ies) are soggy, then there will

     be a brown-out condition . . . and engine cranking

     will be noticeably labored. If an RG battery is

     so used up that it no longer smartly cranks the

     engine, then its serviceability as a reserve of

     energy is suspect.



     No electronic device is at-risk for damage due

     to cranking brown-out. SOME software driven devices

     may initiate a reset operation . . . but it is

     not damaged in any way. See:



  http://tinyurl.com/jb3mgh5



     and



  http://tinyurl.com/j2jt5ul



     I've been herding electrons in aircraft and

     ground-based vehicles for a long time. I've never

     encountered a device that ran off the rails

     due to any excursions of bus voltage . . . that's

     because its a trivial design goal to make our

     electro-whizzies immune to anything the airplane

     throws at it plus a lightning bolt or two from

     mother nature.



     Relieving a battery of 'unnecessary loads' during

     cranking is another artifact of yesteryear when

     radios drew a lot more current and poorly maintained

     flooded batteries were routinely taxed beyond

     their physical limits.



     But today, a hand full of amps 'unnecessary load'

     during the 200amps plus cranking event grunted by

     a modern battery, the value of load shedding

     during cranking.

       



  	  Quote: 	
		  The left bus is powered by the SD-20 and it has a Dynon SV-1000 with its own GPS and Dynon radio and the right side bus will be powered by a SD-60 and it will power the Avionics bus with a Garmin 650 (radio and nav). 	


     Any devices powered from these busses are at no

     risk for either -damage- or -overtaxing- a

     battery during cranking.



 

   Bob . . .

billhuntersemail(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:20 am Post subject: Essential Bus Switch

Good info Bob.  I REALLY want to thank you and the other guys on the AeroElectric forum for you time, effort, and experience in helping me during this project…GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!

 

..

 

Cheers!!!

 

Bill  Hunter



 

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III

Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 7:58 AM

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Essential Bus Switch

  	  Quote: 	
		  



The only reason why I want an Avionics bus is to turn off unnecessary electrical loads on the system during starting.  I presume the Garmin 650 and the Dynon ADS-B and transponder are not susceptible to power surge issues during engine start and since I will have two Optima batteries this is all way overkill. 	




    There are no 'surges' during engine cranking . . .

    if your battery(ies) are soggy, then there will

    be a brown-out condition . . . and engine cranking

    will be noticeably labored. If an RG battery is

    so used up that it no longer smartly cranks the

    engine, then its serviceability as a reserve of

    energy is suspect.



    No electronic device is at-risk for damage due

    to cranking brown-out. SOME software driven devices

    may initiate a reset operation . . . but it is

    not damaged in any way. See:



http://tinyurl.com/jb3mgh5



    and



http://tinyurl.com/j2jt5ul



    I've been herding electrons in aircraft and

    ground-based vehicles for a long time. I've never

    encountered a device that ran off the rails

    due to any excursions of bus voltage . . . that's

    because its a trivial design goal to make our

    electro-whizzies immune to anything the airplane

    throws at it plus a lightning bolt or two from

    mother nature.



    Relieving a battery of 'unnecessary loads' during

    cranking is another artifact of yesteryear when

    radios drew a lot more current and poorly maintained

    flooded batteries were routinely taxed beyond

    their physical limits.



    But today, a hand full of amps 'unnecessary load'

    during the 200amps plus cranking event grunted by

    a modern battery, the value of load shedding

    during cranking.

     

 	  Quote: 	
		  

The left bus is powered by the SD-20 and it has a Dynon SV-1000 with its own GPS and Dynon radio and the right side bus will be powered by a SD-60 and it will power the Avionics bus with a Garmin 650 (radio and nav). 	




    Any devices powered from these busses are at no

    risk for either -damage- or -overtaxing- a

    battery during cranking.



  Bob . . .

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 11:31 am Post subject: Essential Bus Switch

At 10:19 AM 4/10/2016, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   Good info Bob.  I REALLY want to thank you and the other guys on the AeroElectric forum for you time, effort, and experience in helping me during this project…GREATLY APPRECIATED!!! 	


   You are most welcome sir but you have

   come to the right place. This is what

   we do here.



 

 

   Bob . . .

billhuntersemail(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 11:49 am Post subject: Essential Bus Switch

Yes I know this is what you (all) do…however…this is an amazing “service” to the experimental aircraft community and it is important for me to voice (type) my gratitude!!!

 

..

 

Cheers!!!

 

Bill  Hunter



 

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III

Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 12:30 PM

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Essential Bus Switch

 

At 10:19 AM 4/10/2016, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

Good info Bob.  I REALLY want to thank you and the other guys on the AeroElectric forum for you time, effort, and experience in helping me during this project…GREATLY APPRECIATED!!! 	




  You are most welcome sir but you have

  come to the right place. This is what

  we do here.





  Bob . . .

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