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Switch quality

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Laz

Joined: 04 Jan 2016
Posts: 30

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 4:59 am Post subject: Switch quality

I am building a RV8 and Have a couple of Carling butÂ  switches SPST.Â  I am not impressed with their fast on tabs.Â  I know they will probably work just fine, but I am thinking of using some Honeywell switches that have screw on terminals.Â  I also have a space issue that the screw on terminals would help.Â  



Are these Honeywell switches a good choice? 

Mike

billhuntersemail(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 5:49 am Post subject: Switch quality

What Honeywell switches?  

Bill Hunter 

  On Apr 23, 2016 8:06 AM, "Michael Lazarowicz" <tllaz330(at)gmail.com (tllaz330(at)gmail.com)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		  I am building a RV8 and Have a couple of Carling butÂ  switches SPST.Â  I am not impressed with their fast on tabs.Â  I know they will probably work just fine, but I am thinking of using some Honeywell switches that have screw on terminals.Â  I also have a space issue that the screw on terminals would help.Â  



Are these Honeywell switches a good choice? 

Mike

jan(at)CLAVER.DEMON.CO.UK
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 6:13 am Post subject: Switch quality

If you are talking about this lot … I would say they are good …   

         

  

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Hunter

 Sent: 23 April 2016 14:48

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch quality  

  

   

What Honeywell switches?   

Bill Hunter     

On Apr 23, 2016 8:06 AM, "Michael Lazarowicz" <tllaz330(at)gmail.com (tllaz330(at)gmail.com)> wrote:        

I am building a RV8 and Have a couple of Carling but  switches SPST.  I am not impressed with their fast on tabs.  I know they will probably work just fine, but I am thinking of using some Honeywell switches that have screw on terminals.  I also have a space issue that the screw on terminals would help.    

    

   

  

Are these Honeywell switches a good choice?   

  

Mike

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Laz

Joined: 04 Jan 2016
Posts: 30

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 6:15 am Post subject: Switch quality

It is a NT 1-2,Â  It has the plastic back with screw terminals.Â  

Hope that helps



On Saturday, April 23, 2016, William Hunter <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com (billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

What Honeywell switches?  

Bill Hunter 

  On Apr 23, 2016 8:06 AM, "Michael Lazarowicz" <tllaz330(at)gmail.com> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		  I am building a RV8 and Have a couple of Carling butÂ  switches SPST.Â  I am not impressed with their fast on tabs.Â  I know they will probably work just fine, but I am thinking of using some Honeywell switches that have screw on terminals.Â  I also have a space issue that the screw on terminals would help.Â  



Are these Honeywell switches a good choice? 

Mike

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 6:24 am Post subject: Switch quality

On 4/23/2016 7:54 AM, Michael Lazarowicz wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I am building a RV8 and Have a couple of Carling but switches SPST.  I 

 am not impressed with their fast on tabs. I know they will probably 

 work just fine, but I am thinking of using some Honeywell switches 

 that have screw on terminals.  I also have a space issue that the 

 screw on terminals would help.



 Are these Honeywell switches a good choice?



 Mike



Those are terrible and will cause the wings to fall off. To be safe, box 
	


them up and send them to me.







Seriously, screw terminals are more likely to come loose than the fast 

on tabs, because any counter-clockwise pressure on the ring terminal 

(tension on the wire) will try to loosen the screw. And proper ring 

terminals take the same space as fast on terminals. If you're thinking 

of just hooking the wire under the screw head, don't go there. Five 

years from now, when you're making changes to the panel wiring, you'll 

be cussing yourself as you lie on your back under the panel with your 

legs in the air, trying to find the screw you dropped into the bowels of 

the a/c.



Now if you want the Honeywells for the looks, or you believe you need 

space-certified internal quality, then go for it.



Charlie

Laz

Joined: 04 Jan 2016
Posts: 30

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:26 am Post subject: Switch quality

No its a clearance problem.Â  The tabs on the Carling switches I have go straight out the back.Â  When you add the femaleÂ  connector it adds almost an Inch.Â  I just need the room and the NT Honeywell switch is just a couple ob bucks more than the Carling ones. There are also two versions of the Honeywell , One has silver contacts the NT does not.Â  That could really be overkill.

On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 10:26 AM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)>

 

 On 4/23/2016 7:54 AM, Michael Lazarowicz wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   I am building a RV8 and Have a couple of Carling but switches SPST.Â  I am not impressed with their fast on tabs. I know they will probably work just fine, but I am thinking of using some Honeywell switches that have screw on terminals.Â  I also have a space issue that the screw on terminals would help.

 

 Are these Honeywell switches a good choice?

 

 Mike

 

 	
 Those are terrible and will cause the wings to fall off. To be safe, box them up and send them to me.

 

 

 

 Seriously, screw terminals are more likely to come loose than the fast on tabs, because any counter-clockwise pressure on the ring terminal (tension on the wire) will try to loosen the screw. And proper ring terminals take the same space as fast on terminals. If you're thinking of just hooking the wire under the screw head, don't go there. Five years from now, when you're making changes to the panel wiring, you'll be cussing yourself as you lie on your back under the panel with your legs in the air, trying to find the screw you dropped into the bowels of the a/c.

 

 Now if you want the Honeywells for the looks, or you believe you need space-certified internal quality, then go for it.

 

 Charlie

 

 

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ngeorge(at)continentalmot
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:30 am Post subject: Switch quality

Mike - 

We're sorta partial to fast-ons around here...



Neal George

Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		     I am not impressed with their fast on tabs.

rv10pro(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:46 am Post subject: Switch quality

Just a contrarian view on Wings falling off, I work for an airline with 52 aircraft and each with 104 c/b's with washers and screws.Â  No wins have ever even gotten loose nor do the machine screws when correctly installed and torqued. Space limitations and wire loom routing would never work with Fast-ons. YMMV. 

John Cox On Apr 23, 2016 07:30, "Charlie England" <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)>

 

 On 4/23/2016 7:54 AM, Michael Lazarowicz wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   I am building a RV8 and Have a couple of Carling but switches SPST.Â  I am not impressed with their fast on tabs. I know they will probably work just fine, but I am thinking of using some Honeywell switches that have screw on terminals.Â  I also have a space issue that the screw on terminals would help.

 

 Are these Honeywell switches a good choice?

 

 Mike

 

 	
 Those are terrible and will cause the wings to fall off. To be safe, box them up and send them to me.

 

 

 

 Seriously, screw terminals are more likely to come loose than the fast on tabs, because any counter-clockwise pressure on the ring terminal (tension on the wire) will try to loosen the screw. And proper ring terminals take the same space as fast on terminals. If you're thinking of just hooking the wire under the screw head, don't go there. Five years from now, when you're making changes to the panel wiring, you'll be cussing yourself as you lie on your back under the panel with your legs in the air, trying to find the screw you dropped into the bowels of the a/c.

 

 Now if you want the Honeywells for the looks, or you believe you need space-certified internal quality, then go for it.

 

 Charlie

 

 

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stephencliverichards(at)g
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:50 am Post subject: Switch quality

I believe you can get right angle fastons if this would help I have  not used them myself 

Clive 



From: Michael Lazarowicz (tllaz330(at)gmail.com)

Sent: â€Ž23/â€Ž04/â€Ž2016 18:32

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch quality

No its a clearance problem.  The tabs on the Carling switches I have go straight out the back.  When you add the female  connector it adds almost an Inch.  I just need the room and the NT Honeywell switch is just a couple ob bucks more than the Carling ones. There are also two versions of the Honeywell , One has silver contacts the NT does not.  That could really be overkill.

On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 10:26 AM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)>

 

 On 4/23/2016 7:54 AM, Michael Lazarowicz wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   I am building a RV8 and Have a couple of Carling but switches SPST.  I am not impressed with their fast on tabs. I know they will probably work just fine, but I am thinking of using some Honeywell switches that have screw on terminals.  I also have a space issue that the screw on terminals would help.

 

 Are these Honeywell switches a good choice?

 

 Mike

 

 	
 Those are terrible and will cause the wings to fall off. To be safe, box them up and send them to me.

 

 

 

 Seriously, screw terminals are more likely to come loose than the fast on tabs, because any counter-clockwise pressure on the ring terminal (tension on the wire) will try to loosen the screw. And proper ring terminals take the same space as fast on terminals. If you're thinking of just hooking the wire under the screw head, don't go there. Five years from now, when you're making changes to the panel wiring, you'll be cussing yourself as you lie on your back under the panel with your legs in the air, trying to find the screw you dropped into the bowels of the a/c.

 

 Now if you want the Honeywells for the looks, or you believe you need space-certified internal quality, then go for it.

 

 Charlie

 

 

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donjohnston

Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 231

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Switch quality

 	  ceengland7(at)gmail.com wrote: 	
		  On 4/23/2016 7:54 AM, Michael Lazarowicz wrote:Seriously, screw terminals are more likely to come loose than the fast 

on tabs, 	




Then I better replace my wing bolts, landing gear bolts, elevator bolts, cylinder bolts etc., etc., etc.



Because they are all attached with threaded connectors.

rnjcurtis(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 3:03 pm Post subject: Switch quality

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "donjohnston" <don(at)velocity-xl.com>

 

 

ceengland7(at)gmail.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   On 4/23/2016 7:54 AM, Michael Lazarowicz wrote:Seriously, screw terminals are more likely to come loose than the fast 

 on tabs,

 
	


 

Then I better replace my wing bolts, landing gear bolts, elevator bolts, cylinder bolts etc., etc., etc.

 

Because they are all attached with threaded connectors.

 

â€œAPPLES & ORANGES, SIRâ€

 

Roger

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1925
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 3:11 pm Post subject: Re: Switch quality

Search for Flag Faston Connectors.

http://www.te.com/usa-en/product-1-280050-2.html

Gold plated switch contacts are for lighter loads.

Silver plated switch contacts are for heavier loads.

_________________
Joe Gores

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:57 pm Post subject: Switch quality

On 4/23/2016 4:37 PM, donjohnston wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 ceengland7(at)gmail.com wrote:

> On 4/23/2016 7:54 AM, Michael Lazarowicz wrote:Seriously, screw terminals are more likely to come loose than the fast

> on tabs,

 Then I better replace my wing bolts, landing gear bolts, elevator bolts, cylinder bolts etc., etc., etc.

 Because they are all attached with threaded connectors.

And all the bolts that attach parts that are subject to rotation have 

castle nuts and cotter keys, right?

My original post was intended to be a bit light hearted, but it's not a 

falsehood. Yes, if everything is done properly, screw terminals will be 

secure. But try half installing a blade terminal on its blade, and half 

tightening a screw on a ring terminal. Then see which is more prone to 

loosening when the wires are wiggled. I know none of us who are perfect 

pilots and perfect a/c assemblers would ever make such a mistake, but 

'stuff happens'.

The real point is that quality blade connectors are plenty good enough 

for aviation use.

Charlie

Laz

Joined: 04 Jan 2016
Posts: 30

Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 4:53 am Post subject: Switch quality

Tanks to everyone fore tier input,Â  I did not mean to start a debate over screw verses fast on tabs.Â  My real issue was with the Manufacturer quality of the switches.Â  I have a couple of Carling's and eveÂ  though they make screw on terminals the Honeywell just appeared to be better made.Â  IN the bis=g scheme of things, the cost of the 7 switches are just a tiny drop compared to whatÂ  Garmin has removed from my bank account.Â  This is my first shot at this kind of wiring.Â  My 1946 T-craft has no electrical and the Old A7 mag switch is a study in bad design all by its self.

Mike 

On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 11:57 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)>

 

 On 4/23/2016 4:37 PM, donjohnston wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "donjohnston" <don(at)velocity-xl.com (don(at)velocity-xl.com)>

 

 

 ceengland7(at)gmail.com wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   On 4/23/2016 7:54 AM, Michael Lazarowicz wrote:Seriously, screw terminals are more likely to come loose than the fast

 on tabs,

 	
 

 Then I better replace my wing bolts, landing gear bolts, elevator bolts, cylinder bolts etc., etc., etc.

 

 Because they are all attached with threaded connectors.

 

 	
 And all the bolts that attach parts that are subject to rotation have castle nuts and cotter keys, right?

 

 My original post was intended to be a bit light hearted, but it's not a falsehood. Yes, if everything is done properly, screw terminals will be secure. But try half installing a blade terminal on its blade, and half tightening a screw on a ring terminal. Then see which is more prone to loosening when the wires are wiggled. I know none of us who are perfect pilots and perfect a/c assemblers would ever make such a mistake, but 'stuff happens'.

 

 The real point is that quality blade connectors are plenty good enough for aviation use.

 

 Charlie

 

 

 

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 eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

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Laz

Joined: 04 Jan 2016
Posts: 30

Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:32 am Post subject: Switch quality

My fat thumb on small phone . Â not Tanks but thanks.



On Sunday, April 24, 2016, Michael Lazarowicz <tllaz330(at)gmail.com (tllaz330(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Tanks to everyone fore tier input,Â  I did not mean to start a debate over screw verses fast on tabs.Â  My real issue was with the Manufacturer quality of the switches.Â  I have a couple of Carling's and eveÂ  though they make screw on terminals the Honeywell just appeared to be better made.Â  IN the bis=g scheme of things, the cost of the 7 switches are just a tiny drop compared to whatÂ  Garmin has removed from my bank account.Â  This is my first shot at this kind of wiring.Â  My 1946 T-craft has no electrical and the Old A7 mag switch is a study in bad design all by its self.

Mike 

On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 11:57 PM, Charlie England <[url=javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ceengland7(at)gmail.com');]ceengland7(at)gmail.com[/url]> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England <[url=javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ceengland7(at)gmail.com');]ceengland7(at)gmail.com[/url]>

 

 On 4/23/2016 4:37 PM, donjohnston wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "donjohnston" <[url=javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','don(at)velocity-xl.com');]don(at)velocity-xl.com[/url]>

 

 

 ceengland7(at)gmail.com wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   On 4/23/2016 7:54 AM, Michael Lazarowicz wrote:Seriously, screw terminals are more likely to come loose than the fast

 on tabs,

 	
 

 Then I better replace my wing bolts, landing gear bolts, elevator bolts, cylinder bolts etc., etc., etc.

 

 Because they are all attached with threaded connectors.

 

 	
 And all the bolts that attach parts that are subject to rotation have castle nuts and cotter keys, right?

 

 My original post was intended to be a bit light hearted, but it's not a falsehood. Yes, if everything is done properly, screw terminals will be secure. But try half installing a blade terminal on its blade, and half tightening a screw on a ring terminal. Then see which is more prone to loosening when the wires are wiggled. I know none of us who are perfect pilots and perfect a/c assemblers would ever make such a mistake, but 'stuff happens'.

 

 The real point is that quality blade connectors are plenty good enough for aviation use.

 

 Charlie

 

 

 

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 eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

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 ===========

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:33 am Post subject: Switch quality

At 10:31 AM 4/24/2016, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  My fat thumb on small phone . Â not Tanks but thanks.



 On Sunday, April 24, 2016, Michael Lazarowicz <tllaz330(at)gmail.com (tllaz330(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

   Tanks to everyone fore tier input,Â  I did not mean to start a debate over screw verses fast on tabs. 	
 

  There isn't really a 'debate' . . . it's a 'choice' for

  achieving design goals. Different goals call for different

  choices. My observations and experience with fast-ons

  in general aviation dates back to Cessna's incorporation

  of the Carling Rockers in the 60's.



  They proved to be an acceptable solution to Cessna's

  design goals for a satisfactory yet inexpensive alternative

  to the legacy screw-terminal devices which greatly

  improved manufacturing labor costs.



  I began promoting the fast-on switches and fuse-blocks into

  OBAM aviation about 1990 . . . it took hold and I don't

  think anyone has looked back. The really cool thing about

  a fast-on switch is that you can replace it literally

  by feel alone. No itty-bitty short screw with lock washer

  and screwdriver slot to thread through a ring terminal

  that just won't hold still.



  Without a doubt, the Honeywell products are fine

  switches that have a history dating back much

  further than the transition to fast-ons in the

  single engine market. In terms of MTBF,

  the Honeywells may well have a greater laboratory

  service life that the Carling . . . but when the

  average light aircraft switch gets operated perhaps

  200 times a year, is your money well spent to get

  a switch 'rated' for 30,000 cycles as opposed to

  20,000 cycles?



  Further, if your design is failure tolerant, then

  the switch replacement is a cost-of-ownership as

  opposed to a risk issue . . . on that train of

  thought, the Carlings with fast-ons are way out front.



 

 

   Bob . . .

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