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nickc(at)mtaonline.net
Guest

Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 8:28 pm Post subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?

Kolbers,



Ever year we have several “members” finish their projects, or buy a Kolb and joint our group. I think it would be a good thing if those of you with Kolb flying experience could create a “Kolb Flying Tips “ document of some sort. I hope to joint the group of completed projects this summer, and I know the best think to do is to get more time in a Champ, but I know, that flying my Kolb will be different than flying the Champ. So how about a do’s and don’t of fly the Kolb. I know that there will be differences in every Kolb built and each model, but what are the average V speeds for each model? I would think that one of the company owner would have printed some of the information, but if they have I have never heard a reference to it. What do you think?



Thanks as always, I would have never gotten this far without the support and knowledge of this group!



Nick Cassara

Palmer, Alaska

PAAQ



Kolbra Kit #1

victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.
Guest

Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 9:52 pm Post subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?

Great idea  on the piloting tips, so long as you can protect the authors of those tips from liability or blame when the s**t hits the fan.



On a similar note, as a new Kolb builder but an experienced "airplane guy", I believe there is also a strong need for an improved assembly manual. I have written assembly and construction manuals professionally, and I have sent the factory an e-mail that mentioned this and offered my services. I would be very glad to participate in the assembly manual rewrite if the factory is interested. But it is their decision, and they may not agree that there is a need for a better manual..



Bill Berle

www.ezflaphandle.com  - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft

www.grantstar.net           - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities



--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 5/2/16, Nick Cassara <nickc(at)mtaonline.net> wrote:



 Subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Monday, May 2, 2016, 9:26 PM

 

 

 Nick Cassara <nickc(at)mtaonline.net>

 

 Kolbers,

 

 Ever year we have several “members” finish their

 projects, or buy a Kolb and joint our group. I think it

 would be a good thing if those of you with Kolb flying

 experience could create a “Kolb Flying Tips “ document

 of some sort. I hope to joint the group of completed

 projects this summer, and I know the best think to do is to

 get more time in a Champ, but I know, that flying my Kolb

 will be different than flying the Champ. So how about a

 do’s and don’t of fly the Kolb. I know that there will

 be differences in every Kolb built and each model, but what

 are the average V speeds for each model? I would think that

 one of the company owner would have printed some of the

 information, but if they have I have never heard a reference

 to it. What do you think?

 

 Thanks as always, I would have never gotten this far without

 the support and knowledge of this group!

 

 Nick Cassara

 Palmer, Alaska

 PAAQ

 

 Kolbra Kit #1

 

 

 

 

 Forum -

    - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

 MATRONICS LIST WIKI -

 List Contribution Web Site -

               -Matt

 Dralle, List Admin.

Herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 5:04 am Post subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?

When I sold the Firefly last month...I was naturally worried about a low 

time pilot....but this video seems to indicate that he is doing very 

well...guide or no...I notice he installed a BRS...  I mentioned on 

the comments that it was a Herbup to not have painted the instrument 

panel...must have been dozing that day??  Not sure what happened to the 

foam joy stick grip??  Herb

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmmXDbhcTwY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWZ4smwWOg

On 05/03/2016 12:49 AM, Bill Berle wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Great idea  on the piloting tips, so long as you can protect the authors of those tips from liability or blame when the s**t hits the fan.



 On a similar note, as a new Kolb builder but an experienced "airplane guy", I believe there is also a strong need for an improved assembly manual. I have written assembly and construction manuals professionally, and I have sent the factory an e-mail that mentioned this and offered my services. I would be very glad to participate in the assembly manual rewrite if the factory is interested. But it is their decision, and they may not agree that there is a need for a better manual..



 Bill Berle

 www.ezflaphandle.com  - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft

 www.grantstar.net           - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities



 --------------------------------------------

 On Mon, 5/2/16, Nick Cassara <nickc(at)mtaonline.net> wrote:



   Subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?

   To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

   Date: Monday, May 2, 2016, 9:26 PM

   

   

   Nick Cassara <nickc(at)mtaonline.net>

   

   Kolbers,

   

   Ever year we have several “members” finish their

   projects, or buy a Kolb and joint our group. I think it

   would be a good thing if those of you with Kolb flying

   experience could create a “Kolb Flying Tips “ document

   of some sort. I hope to joint the group of completed

   projects this summer, and I know the best think to do is to

   get more time in a Champ, but I know, that flying my Kolb

   will be different than flying the Champ. So how about a

   do’s and don’t of fly the Kolb. I know that there will

   be differences in every Kolb built and each model, but what

   are the average V speeds for each model? I would think that

   one of the company owner would have printed some of the

   information, but if they have I have never heard a reference

   to it. What do you think?

   

   Thanks as always, I would have never gotten this far without

   the support and knowledge of this group!

   

   Nick Cassara

   Palmer, Alaska

   PAAQ

   

   Kolbra Kit #1

   

   

   

   

   Forum -

      - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

   MATRONICS LIST WIKI -

   List Contribution Web Site -

                 -Matt

   Dralle, List Admin.

   

   

   




	


-- 

Signature text; Fort Marcy Park?  Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn left.

racerjerry

Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 202
Location: Deer Park, NY

Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 5:18 am Post subject: Re: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?

The very best thing a new Kolb pilot can do is to GET DUAL INSTRUCTION in a 2-place KOLB.  Let me rephrase that - It is the ONLY thing to do!  



The sight picture and flight characteristics of any side-by-side 2-place Kolb are nearly the same as a single seat Kolb and VERY different from a Champ.



A while back, we had a very experienced GA pilot stall/mush a perfectly good ultralight clear into the ground on its first flight because of the differences.  In this case, it was not a Kolb.  The combination of light weight, very draggy airframe and high thrust line of the pusher prop in a Kolb can quickly get you into trouble if you do not know what to expect.



When you get off the throttle, you must be ready to immediately apply forward stick to maintain airspeed.  Very unlike a Champ that has the weight and inertia to keep up speed.



Fly 'em to the ground with power not completely off (at least in the beginning) and Kolbs are very safe and an absolute joy to fly.  Well, at least they are a joy when the winds are not howling.

_________________
Jerry King

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 5:58 am Post subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?

Cross check the ASI and keep it above stall speed.  No stall.  Pretty

simple.



Forget the ASI, fall below stall speed and stall.  Can be fatal.



I started flying Kolbs in 1984.  I still keep a close cross check on my

airspeed on approach to nearly touchdown.



Don't ask me what the V speeds are on my MKIII, which I have been flying for

24 years.  It takes off when it is ready to fly, climbs out about 60 mph,

shoot my approaches about 50 mph.   I try not to fly beyond 100 and drop the

flaps above 70.  Maneuver speed is when I slow down because it is getting to

rough for me to be comfortable.



My MKIII stalls at 38 to 40 clean, 35 with half flaps (20 degrees), and

about 32 with full flaps (40 degrees).  I think these will be a few mph

slower when I get John Gilpin's VGs installed, hopefully, when the wind and

weather lightens up a bit.



I frequently check stall speeds to keep me up to date, especially when I

have a passenger, which I don't fly very often, and when I take off with 150

lbs of fuel and 100 lbs of gear on board.



Sorry I am not more help.  I try to keep my Kolb and my approach to fly it

as simple as possible.



The above works for me.  I don't know if it will work for you or not.  Does

that relieve me of liability?  



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama



--

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 7:32 am Post subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?

After my experience with the "Plane from Hell", I think a additional project should be a "how to inspect a Kolb (model). There are some real morons out there when it comes to building and absolutely unscrupulous when it comes to selling. You can have all the flying manuals you want but if the plane is poorly built it probably won't fly within the manual parameters and a pilot with little skill can find himself in real trouble.



Rick Girard

On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 8:04 AM, Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)>

 

 When I sold the Firefly last month...I was naturally worried about a low time pilot....but this video seems to indicate that he is doing very well...guide or no...I notice he installed a BRS...  I mentioned on the comments that it was a Herbup to not have painted the instrument panel...must have been dozing that day??  Not sure what happened to the foam joy stick grip??  Herb

 

 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmmXDbhcTwY

 

 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWZ4smwWOg

 

 

 On 05/03/2016 12:49 AM, Bill Berle wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net (victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net)>

 

 Great idea  on the piloting tips, so long as you can protect the authors of those tips from liability or blame when the s**t hits the fan.

 

 On a similar note, as a new Kolb builder but an experienced "airplane guy", I believe there is also a strong need for an improved assembly manual. I have written assembly and construction manuals professionally, and I have sent the factory an e-mail that mentioned this and offered my services. I would be very glad to participate in the assembly manual rewrite if the factory is interested. But it is their decision, and they may not agree that there is a need for a better manual..

 

 Bill Berle

 www.ezflaphandle.com  - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft

 www.grantstar.net           - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities

 

 --------------------------------------------

 On Mon, 5/2/16, Nick Cassara <nickc(at)mtaonline.net (nickc(at)mtaonline.net)> wrote:

 

   Subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?

   To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)

   Date: Monday, May 2, 2016, 9:26 PM

     --> Kolb-List message posted by:

   Nick Cassara <nickc(at)mtaonline.net (nickc(at)mtaonline.net)>

     Kolbers,

     Ever year we have several “members” finish their

   projects, or buy a Kolb and joint our group. I think it

   would be a good thing if those of you with Kolb flying

   experience could create a “Kolb Flying Tips “ document

   of some sort. I hope to joint the group of completed

   projects this summer, and I know the best think to do is to

   get more time in a Champ, but I know, that flying my Kolb

   will be different than flying the Champ. So how about a

   do’s and don’t of fly the Kolb. I know that there will

   be differences in every Kolb built and each model, but what

   are the average V speeds for each model? I would think that

   one of the company owner would have printed some of the

   information, but if they have I have never heard a reference

   to it. What do you think?

     Thanks as always, I would have never gotten this far without

   the support and knowledge of this group!

     Nick Cassara

   Palmer, Alaska

   PAAQ

     Kolbra Kit #1

           Forum -

      - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

   MATRONICS LIST WIKI -

   List Contribution Web Site -

                 -Matt

   Dralle, List Admin.

       

 

 

 

 

 	
 

 -- 

 Signature text; Fort Marcy Park?  Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn left.

 

 

 ===========

 -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 ===========

  FORUMS -

 eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 WIKI -

 errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 



	




-- 

“Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.”   Groucho Marx

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 7:56 am Post subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?

Be aware that our airplanes are all different. They are not a identically built Cessna or Piper and that is mostly a good thing.  Indicated air speeds are always inaccurate to some extent. Some more than others. Your static source is the most common point of inaccuracy. Adding to that our planes may stall, have a flap failure and/or structural failure at different actual air speeds.

We have seen posts that talk about wildly inaccurate airspeed readings. Some have reported airspeeds that do not change in flight. My plane showed inaccurate air speeds by more than 15 MPH low for first few flights, right when I needed it most. Yes it was a static source issue.

Bottom line don't fly your new plane by the numbers given by anyone. Use the V numbers as only a basic guide. You are going to be a test pilot. Listen to wind sounds. Watch the ASI on takeoff roll. Note the indicated air speed when the plane takes flight and what it indicates in different attitudes especially when it stalls.

Again worth what you paid for it.

Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC

On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 9:58 AM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:

[quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>

 

 Cross check the ASI and keep it above stall speed.  No stall.  Pretty

 simple.

 

 Forget the ASI, fall below stall speed and stall.  Can be fatal.

 

 I started flying Kolbs in 1984.  I still keep a close cross check on my

 airspeed on approach to nearly touchdown.

 

 Don't ask me what the V speeds are on my MKIII, which I have been flying for

 24 years.  It takes off when it is ready to fly, climbs out about 60 mph,

 shoot my approaches about 50 mph.   I try not to fly beyond 100 and drop the

 flaps above 70.  Maneuver speed is when I slow down because it is getting to

 rough for me to be comfortable.

 

 My MKIII stalls at 38 to 40 clean, 35 with half flaps (20 degrees), and

 about 32 with full flaps (40 degrees).  I think these will be a few mph

 slower when I get John Gilpin's VGs installed, hopefully, when the wind and

 weather lightens up a bit.

 

 I frequently check stall speeds to keep me up to date, especially when I

 have a passenger, which I don't fly very often, and when I take off with 150

 lbs of fuel and 100 lbs of gear on board.

 

 Sorry I am not more help.  I try to keep my Kolb and my approach to fly it

 as simple as possible.

 

 The above works for me.  I don't know if it will work for you or not.  Does

 that relieve me of liability?  

 

 john h

 mkIII

 Titus, Alabama

 

 

 

 --

Herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 8:04 am Post subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?

Rick

     

       My day is ruined....check the latest comment on You tube at the     link below!!!  I am sick!!!   Herb 

     

     On 05/03/2016 10:31 AM, Richard Girard       wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		         After my experience with the "Plane from Hell", I         think a additional project should be a "how to inspect a Kolb         (model). There are some real morons out there when it comes to         building and absolutely unscrupulous when it comes to selling.         You can have all the flying manuals you want but if the plane is         poorly built it probably won't fly within the manual parameters         and a pilot with little skill can find himself in real trouble.         

         

         Rick Girard

       

       

         On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 8:04 AM, Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)>           wrote:

            	  Quote: 	
		  -->             Kolb-List message posted by: Herb <[url=mailto:Herbgh(at)nctc.com]Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)[/url]>

             

             When I sold the Firefly last month...I was naturally worried             about a low time pilot....but this video seems to indicate             that he is doing very well...guide or no...I notice he             installed a BRS...  I mentioned on the comments that it             was a Herbup to not have painted the instrument panel...must             have been dozing that day??  Not sure what happened to the             foam joy stick grip??  Herb

             

             

             https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmmXDbhcTwY

             

             

             https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWZ4smwWOg                            

                 

                 

                 On 05/03/2016 12:49 AM, Bill Berle wrote:

                  	  Quote: 	
		                     --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bill Berle <[url=mailto:victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net]victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net (victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net)[/url]>

                   

                   Great idea  on the piloting tips, so long as you can                   protect the authors of those tips from liability or                   blame when the s**t hits the fan.

                   

                   On a similar note, as a new Kolb builder but an                   experienced "airplane guy", I believe there is also a                   strong need for an improved assembly manual. I have                   written assembly and construction manuals                   professionally, and I have sent the factory an e-mail                   that mentioned this and offered my services. I would                   be very glad to participate in the assembly manual                   rewrite if the factory is interested. But it is their                   decision, and they may not agree that there is a need                   for a better manual..

                   

                   Bill Berle

                   www.ezflaphandle.com  - safety                   & performance upgrade for light aircraft

                   www.grantstar.net           -                   winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit                   entities

                   

                   --------------------------------------------

                   On Mon, 5/2/16, Nick Cassara <[url=mailto:nickc(at)mtaonline.net]nickc(at)mtaonline.net (nickc(at)mtaonline.net)[/url]>                   wrote:

                   

                     Subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to                   Kolb flying?

                     To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)

                     Date: Monday, May 2, 2016, 9:26 PM

                       --> Kolb-List message posted by:

                     Nick Cassara <nickc(at)mtaonline.net (nickc(at)mtaonline.net)>

                       Kolbers,

                       Ever year we have several “members” finish their

                     projects, or buy a Kolb and joint our group. I think                   it

                     would be a good thing if those of you with Kolb                   flying

                     experience could create a “Kolb Flying Tips “                   document

                     of some sort. I hope to joint the group of completed

                     projects this summer, and I know the best think to                   do is to

                     get more time in a Champ, but I know, that flying my                   Kolb

                     will be different than flying the Champ. So how                   about a

                     do’s and don’t of fly the Kolb. I know that there                   will

                     be differences in every Kolb built and each model,                   but what

                     are the average V speeds for each model? I would                   think that

                     one of the company owner would have printed some of                   the

                     information, but if they have I have never heard a                   reference

                     to it. What do you think?

                       Thanks as always, I would have never gotten this                   far without

                     the support and knowledge of this group!

                       Nick Cassara

                     Palmer, Alaska

                     PAAQ

                       Kolbra Kit #1

                             Forum -

                        - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

                     MATRONICS LIST WIKI -

                     List Contribution Web Site -

                                   -Matt

                     Dralle, List Admin.

                         

                   

                   

                   

                   

                 	
                 

               

             

                              -- 

                 Signature text; Fort Marcy Park?  Sure...Mr.                 Foster...Third red light and turn left.                            

                 

                 

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                 rel="noreferrer"                 target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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         -- 

                                                                                    “Blessed are the                     cracked, for they shall let in the light.”   Groucho Marx                 

                 

                   

               

             

           

         

       

     -- 

Signature text; Fort Marcy Park?  Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn left.

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 8:11 am Post subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?

Just to add to the good advice given you by Rick, I make it a practice when flying a strange airplane, to get up about a 1000 feet and do a stall, checking where it stalls on the ASI. That will give you the knowledge that you will need to safely get it back on the ground again. It doesn't matter whether the ASI is correct or not, what you need is to know is how much faster you need it to read to keep from stalling.



I once tested a guy's Firestar that had put every bell and whistle on that he could think of. It was at close to max gross with me as pilot. I carefully flew it off the ground and up to 1000 feet agl. Wide open throttle the ASI showed 60 MPH. I throttled back and it stalled at 56 MPH. Needless to say I did a wheel landing when I got it on the ground.

Larry

On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 9:56 AM, Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com (neilsenrm(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]Be aware that our airplanes are all different. They are not a identically built Cessna or Piper and that is mostly a good thing.  Indicated air speeds are always inaccurate to some extent. Some more than others. Your static source is the most common point of inaccuracy. Adding to that our planes may stall, have a flap failure and/or structural failure at different actual air speeds.

We have seen posts that talk about wildly inaccurate airspeed readings. Some have reported airspeeds that do not change in flight. My plane showed inaccurate air speeds by more than 15 MPH low for first few flights, right when I needed it most. Yes it was a static source issue.

Bottom line don't fly your new plane by the numbers given by anyone. Use the V numbers as only a basic guide. You are going to be a test pilot. Listen to wind sounds. Watch the ASI on takeoff roll. Note the indicated air speed when the plane takes flight and what it indicates in different attitudes especially when it stalls.

Again worth what you paid for it.

Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC

On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 9:58 AM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:

[quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>

 

 Cross check the ASI and keep it above stall speed.  No stall.  Pretty

 simple.

 

 Forget the ASI, fall below stall speed and stall.  Can be fatal.

 

 I started flying Kolbs in 1984.  I still keep a close cross check on my

 airspeed on approach to nearly touchdown.

 

 Don't ask me what the V speeds are on my MKIII, which I have been flying for

 24 years.  It takes off when it is ready to fly, climbs out about 60 mph,

 shoot my approaches about 50 mph.   I try not to fly beyond 100 and drop the

 flaps above 70.  Maneuver speed is when I slow down because it is getting to

 rough for me to be comfortable.

 

 My MKIII stalls at 38 to 40 clean, 35 with half flaps (20 degrees), and

 about 32 with full flaps (40 degrees).  I think these will be a few mph

 slower when I get John Gilpin's VGs installed, hopefully, when the wind and

 weather lightens up a bit.

 

 I frequently check stall speeds to keep me up to date, especially when I

 have a passenger, which I don't fly very often, and when I take off with 150

 lbs of fuel and 100 lbs of gear on board.

 

 Sorry I am not more help.  I try to keep my Kolb and my approach to fly it

 as simple as possible.

 

 The above works for me.  I don't know if it will work for you or not.  Does

 that relieve me of liability?  

 

 john h

 mkIII

 Titus, Alabama

 

 

 

 --

_________________
do not archive

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 8:15 am Post subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?

Allow me to add to Rick's comments.  Although the ASI may not be calibrated correctly, huge error between indicated and true airspeed, as long as it is operational and you have checked, it will indicate stall speed.

 

john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

 

From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Neilsen

Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 10:57 AM

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?



 

Be aware that our airplanes are all different. They are not a identically built Cessna or Piper and that is mostly a good thing.  Indicated air speeds are always inaccurate to some extent. Some more than others. Your static source is the most common point of inaccuracy. Adding to that our planes may stall, have a flap failure and/or structural failure at different actual air speeds.



 



We have seen posts that talk about wildly inaccurate airspeed readings. Some have reported airspeeds that do not change in flight. My plane showed inaccurate air speeds by more than 15 MPH low for first few flights, right when I needed it most. Yes it was a static source issue.



 



Bottom line don't fly your new plane by the numbers given by anyone. Use the V numbers as only a basic guide. You are going to be a test pilot. Listen to wind sounds. Watch the ASI on takeoff roll. Note the indicated air speed when the plane takes flight and what it indicates in different attitudes especially when it stalls.



 



Again worth what you paid for it.



 



Rick Neilsen



Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

stuart(at)harnerfarm.net
Guest

Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 10:43 am Post subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?

Scared the crap out of me just watching it. Of course I am a known chicken in the air.

 

If I wanted to fly like that I would have a Citabria, not a Firefly.

 

Stuart

 

From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herb

Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 11:05 AM

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?

 

Rick



  My day is ruined....check the latest comment on You tube at the link below!!!  I am sick!!!   Herb 

On 05/03/2016 10:31 AM, Richard Girard wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

After my experience with the "Plane from Hell", I think a additional project should be a "how to inspect a Kolb (model). There are some real morons out there when it comes to building and absolutely unscrupulous when it comes to selling. You can have all the flying manuals you want but if the plane is poorly built it probably won't fly within the manual parameters and a pilot with little skill can find himself in real trouble. 

 



Rick Girard

 

On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 8:04 AM, Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)> wrote:

--> Kolb-List message posted by: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)>



When I sold the Firefly last month...I was naturally worried about a low time pilot....but this video seems to indicate that he is doing very well...guide or no...I notice he installed a BRS...  I mentioned on the comments that it was a Herbup to not have painted the instrument panel...must have been dozing that day??  Not sure what happened to the foam joy stick grip??  Herb

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmmXDbhcTwY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWZ4smwWOg 



On 05/03/2016 12:49 AM, Bill Berle wrote:

--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net (victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net)>



Great idea  on the piloting tips, so long as you can protect the authors of those tips from liability or blame when the s**t hits the fan.



On a similar note, as a new Kolb builder but an experienced "airplane guy", I believe there is also a strong need for an improved assembly manual. I have written assembly and construction manuals professionally, and I have sent the factory an e-mail that mentioned this and offered my services. I would be very glad to participate in the assembly manual rewrite if the factory is interested. But it is their decision, and they may not agree that there is a need for a better manual..



Bill Berle

www.ezflaphandle.com  - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft

www.grantstar.net           - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities



--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 5/2/16, Nick Cassara <nickc(at)mtaonline.net (nickc(at)mtaonline.net)> wrote:



  Subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?

  To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)

  Date: Monday, May 2, 2016, 9:26 PM

    --> Kolb-List message posted by:

  Nick Cassara <nickc(at)mtaonline.net (nickc(at)mtaonline.net)>

    Kolbers,

    Ever year we have several “members” finish their

  projects, or buy a Kolb and joint our group. I think it

  would be a good thing if those of you with Kolb flying

  experience could create a “Kolb Flying Tips “ document

  of some sort. I hope to joint the group of completed

  projects this summer, and I know the best think to do is to

  get more time in a Champ, but I know, that flying my Kolb

  will be different than flying the Champ. So how about a

  do’s and don’t of fly the Kolb. I know that there will

  be differences in every Kolb built and each model, but what

  are the average V speeds for each model? I would think that

  one of the company owner would have printed some of the

  information, but if they have I have never heard a reference

  to it. What do you think?

    Thanks as always, I would have never gotten this far without

  the support and knowledge of this group!

    Nick Cassara

  Palmer, Alaska

  PAAQ

    Kolbra Kit #1

          Forum -

     - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

  MATRONICS LIST WIKI -

  List Contribution Web Site -

                -Matt

  Dralle, List Admin.

      





 

-- 

Signature text; Fort Marcy Park?  Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn left. 



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eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

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rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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-- “Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.”   Groucho Marx



 



	


 	  Quote: 	
		  -- Signature text; Fort Marcy Park?  Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn left.

victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.
Guest

Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 11:00 am Post subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?

"Scared the crap out of me just

 watching it. Of course I am a known chicken in the

 air.  If I wanted to fly like that I

 would have a Citabria, not a Firefly."



Are we all talking about the traditional "wingover" maneuver that the guy did in the video at the 3:04 mark and 3:58 mark? Or is there some sort of inverted flat spin and Lomcevak he did that I didn't see when watching the video?



Bill Berle

www.ezflaphandle.com  - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft

www.grantstar.net           - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities



--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 5/3/16, Stuart Harner <stuart(at)harnerfarm.net> wrote:



 Subject: RE: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016, 11:43 AM

 

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 #yiv4032260202 Scared the crap out of me just

 watching it. Of course I am a known chicken in the

 air.  If I wanted to fly like that I

 would have a Citabria, not a Firefly.  Stuart  From:

 owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com

 [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf

 Of Herb

 Sent: Tuesday, May 03,

 2016 11:05 AM

 To:

 kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re:

 How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb

 flying?  Rick

 

   My day is ruined....check the latest comment

 on You tube at the link below!!!  I am sick!!!   Herb

 On 05/03/2016 10:31 AM,

 Richard Girard wrote:After my experience with the

 "Plane from Hell", I think a additional project

 should be a "how to inspect a Kolb (model). There are

 some real morons out there when it comes to building and

 absolutely unscrupulous when it comes to selling. You can

 have all the flying manuals you want but if the plane is

 poorly built it probably won't fly within the manual

 parameters and a pilot with little skill can find himself in

 real trouble. 

  Rick

 Girard  On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 8:04

 AM, Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>

 wrote:--> Kolb-List

 message posted by: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>

 

 When I sold the Firefly last

 month...I was naturally worried about a low time

 pilot....but this video seems to indicate that he is doing

 very well...guide or no...I notice he installed a

 BRS...  I mentioned on the comments that it was a Herbup

 to not have painted the instrument panel...must have been

 dozing that day??  Not sure what happened to the foam joy

 stick grip??  Herb

 

 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmmXDbhcTwY

 

 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWZ4smwWOg

 

 

 

 On 05/03/2016

 12:49 AM, Bill Berle wrote:--> Kolb-List message

 posted by: Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net>

 

 Great idea  on the piloting

 tips, so long as you can protect the authors of those tips

 from liability or blame when the s**t hits the fan.

 

 On a similar note, as a new

 Kolb builder but an experienced "airplane guy", I

 believe there is also a strong need for an improved assembly

 manual. I have written assembly and construction manuals

 professionally, and I have sent the factory an e-mail that

 mentioned this and offered my services. I would be very glad

 to participate in the assembly manual rewrite if the factory

 is interested. But it is their decision, and they may not

 agree that there is a need for a better manual..

 

 Bill Berle

 www.ezflaphandle.com 

 - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft

 www.grantstar.net   

        - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit

 entities

 

 --------------------------------------------

 On Mon, 5/2/16, Nick Cassara <nickc(at)mtaonline.net>

 wrote:

 

   Subject:

 How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?

   To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

   Date: Monday, May 2, 2016, 9:26 PM

     

   Nick Cassara <nickc(at)mtaonline.net>

     Kolbers,

     Ever year

 we have several “members” finish their

   projects, or buy a Kolb and joint our group.

 I think it

   would be a good thing if those

 of you with Kolb flying

   experience could

 create a “Kolb Flying Tips “ document

  

 of some sort. I hope to joint the group of completed

   projects this summer, and I know the best

 think to do is to

   get more time in a

 Champ, but I know, that flying my Kolb

  

 will be different than flying the Champ. So how about a

   do’s and don’t of fly the Kolb. I know

 that there will

   be differences in every

 Kolb built and each model, but what

   are

 the average V speeds for each model? I would think that

   one of the company owner would have printed

 some of the

   information, but if they have

 I have never heard a reference

   to it.

 What do you think?

     Thanks as always, I

 would have never gotten this far without

  

 the support and knowledge of this group!

  

   Nick Cassara

   Palmer, Alaska

   PAAQ

     Kolbra Kit #1

           Forum -

    

  - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

   MATRONICS LIST

 WIKI -

   List Contribution Web Site -

                 -Matt

   Dralle, List Admin.

      

 

 

 

 

 

  --

 

 Signature

 text; Fort Marcy Park?  Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light

 and turn left. 

 

 

 ===========

 -List" rel="noreferrer"

 target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 ===========

 FORUMS -

 eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 WIKI -

 errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 rel="noreferrer"

 target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 

 

  --

 “Blessed are the cracked, for

 they shall let in the light.”   Groucho

 Marx

  

 

 -- Signature text; Fort

 Marcy Park?  Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn

 left.

Herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 11:01 am Post subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?

I was  relieved to learn  that the pilot  had 40+ years in Kolbs and     ga planes...  When I first believed  it was the low time owner...I     thought that he was going to be safe in this little bird...flew     confidently...though putting the Fly through more paces in one     flight than I have in years...

     

       They are strong....no doubt... I suspect that Dennis and John have     flown some interesting maneuvers...   Not sure if in a Fly     however??  Herb 

     

     On 05/03/2016 01:43 PM, Stuart Harner       wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		                         <![endif]-->   <![endif]-->                

Scared             the crap out of me just watching it. Of course I am a known             chicken in the air.         

          

If             I wanted to fly like that I would have a Citabria, not a             Firefly.         

          

Stuart         

                                  

From:                 owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com)                 [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On                   Behalf Of Herb

                 Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 11:05 AM

                 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)

                 Subject: Re: How about a new Pilot                 Guide to Kolb flying?           

         

         

          

Rick

           

             My day is ruined....check the latest comment on You tube at           the link below!!!  I am sick!!!   Herb                     

On 05/03/2016 10:31 AM, Richard Girard             wrote:         

          	  Quote: 	
		                          

After my experience with the "Plane               from Hell", I think a additional project should be a "how               to inspect a Kolb (model). There are some real morons out               there when it comes to building and absolutely               unscrupulous when it comes to selling. You can have all               the flying manuals you want but if the plane is poorly               built it probably won't fly within the manual parameters               and a pilot with little skill can find himself in real               trouble.                             

              

                            

Rick Girard             

           

                        

                             

On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 8:04 AM, Herb                 <Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)>                 wrote:               

--> Kolb-List message posted by:                 Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)>

                 

                 When I sold the Firefly last month...I was naturally                 worried about a low time pilot....but this video seems                 to indicate that he is doing very well...guide or no...I                 notice he installed a BRS...  I mentioned on the                 comments that it was a Herbup to not have painted the                 instrument panel...must have been dozing that day??  Not                 sure what happened to the foam joy stick grip??  Herb

                 

                 

                 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmmXDbhcTwY

                 

                 

                 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWZ4smwWOg                                                                    



                     

                     

                     On 05/03/2016 12:49 AM, Bill Berle wrote:                   

-->                     Kolb-List message posted by: Bill Berle <[url=mailto:victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net]victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net (victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net)[/url]>

                     

                     Great idea  on the piloting tips, so long as you can                     protect the authors of those tips from liability or                     blame when the s**t hits the fan.

                     

                     On a similar note, as a new Kolb builder but an                     experienced "airplane guy", I believe there is also                     a strong need for an improved assembly manual. I                     have written assembly and construction manuals                     professionally, and I have sent the factory an                     e-mail that mentioned this and offered my services.                     I would be very glad to participate in the assembly                     manual rewrite if the factory is interested. But it                     is their decision, and they may not agree that there                     is a need for a better manual..

                     

                     Bill Berle

                     www.ezflaphandle.com                      - safety & performance upgrade for light                     aircraft

                     www.grantstar.net                               - winning proposals for non-profit and                     for-profit entities

                     

                     --------------------------------------------

                     On Mon, 5/2/16, Nick Cassara <[url=mailto:nickc(at)mtaonline.net]nickc(at)mtaonline.net (nickc(at)mtaonline.net)[/url]>                     wrote:

                     

                       Subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to                     Kolb flying?

                       To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)

                       Date: Monday, May 2, 2016, 9:26 PM

                         --> Kolb-List message posted by:

                       Nick Cassara <nickc(at)mtaonline.net (nickc(at)mtaonline.net)>

                         Kolbers,

                         Ever year we have several “members” finish their

                       projects, or buy a Kolb and joint our group. I                     think it

                       would be a good thing if those of you with Kolb                     flying

                       experience could create a “Kolb Flying Tips “                     document

                       of some sort. I hope to joint the group of                     completed

                       projects this summer, and I know the best think to                     do is to

                       get more time in a Champ, but I know, that flying                     my Kolb

                       will be different than flying the Champ. So how                     about a

                       do’s and don’t of fly the Kolb. I know that there                     will

                       be differences in every Kolb built and each model,                     but what

                       are the average V speeds for each model? I would                     think that

                       one of the company owner would have printed some                     of the

                       information, but if they have I have never heard a                     reference

                       to it. What do you think?

                         Thanks as always, I would have never gotten this                     far without

                       the support and knowledge of this group!

                         Nick Cassara

                       Palmer, Alaska

                       PAAQ

                         Kolbra Kit #1

                               Forum -

                          - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

                       MATRONICS LIST WIKI -

                       List Contribution Web Site -

                                     -Matt

                       Dralle, List Admin.

                           

                     

                     

                     

                                        

                  

               

               

-- 

                   Signature text; Fort Marcy Park?                      Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn left.                                                                    



                     

                     

                     ===========

                     -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

                     ===========

                     FORUMS -

                     eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

                     ===========

                     WIKI -

                     errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com

                     ===========

                     b Site -

                               -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

                     rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

                     ===========

                     

                     

                                      

               

             

             



                                                          

              

             

--                                                                                                             “Blessed                           are the cracked, for they shall let in the                           light.”   Groucho                               Marx                     

                                            

                      

                   

                 

               

             

           

         	
         



           

                     	  Quote: 	
		  -- Signature text; Fort Marcy Park?  Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn left. 	
       

     -- 

Signature text; Fort Marcy Park?  Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn left.

stuart(at)harnerfarm.net
Guest

Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 11:27 am Post subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?

The part where the earth was spinning under a wing tip. Wingover I guess.  



Too close to inverted for my taste. One little bump in the air and you are upside down!



Used to do that kind of thing in heavier aircraft, but not in my 2-stroke powered leaf.



The accelerated stall got my attention too. Of course I have never liked them in any aircraft. Always scared me, never got used to doing that.



Stuart



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